NYT Article on HBS: HBS Case Study - Gender Inequity

Question

I'm a woman and I'll be applying even after reading this article. But this makes it even more important to visit since this issue isn't something I haven't explicitly heard before. Gotta witness the school's culture in action.

I wonder if it'll impact how applicants perceive HBS?

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/08/education/harvard-case-study-gender-equity.html?hp

ohsballer · Answer

Very good article. As a minority male it gave me insight into the elitism present at HBS and is making me reconsider if I'd fit in there.

Jamon · Answer

Wow, thanks for the read. Really confirms the elitism there. And it's interesting how opposite the attitudes at HBS are compared to Stanford.

missxmelon · Answer

Not very surprising, especially considering that women received a different diploma from men (in the undergraduate program) up until 1999.

EBM · Answer

I wouldn't form any opinions based on this article or the follow-up released yesterday.

Maybe I was just lucky with my section experience and with the people I chose to hang out with, but I never experienced a whiff of elitist behavior from my classmates--and that's with me coming from a decidedly middle-class upbringing in the southern US and blue-collar work experience. I almost didn't apply to HBS in the first place based on the stereotypes I'd heard about Ivy League MBAs, but during my time there I found that the stereotypes weren't rooted in much reality.

Yeah, it was obvious that some people had more money than others just based on how some chose to spend their long weekends and breaks--but I knew plenty of non-wealthy people who financed their extravagant lifestyles with private loans based on the rationalization that they'd be able to pay them off with the salaries they'd earn over the next 5 years. I also knew plenty of people who came from money (or who earned a lot in their pre-HBS lives) but were down to earth homebodies. And until I read this article, I'd never heard of "Section X."

It's especially odd that they released this article in the wake of all the statistics that show HBS is admitting  far  fewer applicants from the traditional "rich people" backgrounds of IB, PE, and hedge funds, and far more from manufacturing, social enterprise, and non-profits. More grads are going into tech, startups, or non-profit work these days compared to the past decade, and those numbers are coming at the expense of grads going into banking and consulting and PE.

hunterashmore · Answer

I have to agree here. When I was applying I visited different schools and I was overwhelmed by the level of pretentiousness at other schools while, conversely, I was honestly refreshed by how welcoming the HBS crowd was. I expected the experience to be the exact opposite. Since being accepted and starting classes, I have been continuously thrilled with my classmates.

To be clear, I graduated from a state school with an engineering degree and was raised in a middle-class family in an extremely rural southern town. Personally, I tend to be sensitive to elitism and inequality, but I can honestly say those articles infuriated me due to their inaccuracy. One of my female professors also spoke to the class specifically about the gender article last week. She expressed how offended she was about the article, and how poorly it represented the views of her and her coworkers.

Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and every will have different experiences. I would just ask that you don't draw to deep a conclusion based on this article alone, because it really was quite lacking in factual depth.

hayekorder · Answer

Hi,
I am thinking of applying but I was thrown off by this article as well as this other article on how divisive the class -https://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/10/education/harvard-business-students-see-class-as-divisive-an-issue-as-gender.html?pagewanted=1

Does being into an HBS class require you to spend so much on weekend parties or clubs? Considering that I will have to finance my MBA through a loan, these extravagances are completely out of question.

EBM · Answer

"Does being into an HBS class require you to spend so much on weekend parties or clubs?"

In a word, no. See my previous posts in this thread.

No one gets forced to attend any events. Most people choose to pay for  some  trips though, because it would be a pretty boring two years if you did nothing but stay in Boston on weekends and breaks.

CityLights · Answer

Do many people take trips *every* weekend, or just for long weekends and holidays? In my undergrad I was fairly busy on campus on the weekends, due to involvement with student organizations and homework/studying/projects. Even if I had unlimited money, I can't imagine that I would have had time to take a weekend-long trip more than once a month or so.

EBM · Answer

I'm not sure why this is so hard to comprehend. Just like almost anything else in life, there's a bell curve.

In this case, that means a few people travel almost every weekend, a few people almost never go anywhere, and ~90% of the class will leave the Boston area 1-2 times per month.

Some of those trips will be vacations, some will be section events, some will be related to job-hunting, and some will be through clubs. This "lucrative" ski trip they keep referencing was billed as the official class ski trip, but all that meant was that the student leadership was able to negotiate discounted rates through the hotels and ski resorts. It fell on a long weekend, so a decent chunk of the class went. But there's no expectation or requirement that you go anywhere at any time. Some people have the money to travel a lot--not to mention the intelligence levels necessary to do well academically without working too hard--and some don't. That's pretty much all there is to it.

None of this stuff is unique to HBS--for instance, I knew people at Haas and Stanford who basically lived at Lake Tahoe during ski season. Students at other east coast schools go to Europe occasionally on long weekends or for events like Oktoberfest.

And again, a huge majority of the HBS class does  not  go on extravagant vacations on a regular basis, but their lives don't make for interesting NYT hit pieces about the opulent, over the top lifestyles of HBS students.

Timbob · Answer

I read this article and I was actually encouraged by it.

I have no doubt elitist attitudes prevail at most if not all Business Schools, based on their intake. Living in London and friends with many high flying finances types, I may not have direct experience of schools yet but I do have experience with their core intake.... (Sorry all you finance guys, I know you're not all like that - it only takes a few!)

But in the Times article, HBS' faculity comes across as pretty pro-active and struggling to change the culture of the place - a challenge in any organisation no matter who you are. I was impressed they're willing to try so hard, and it must have been a difficult article to read for them. HBS is a great target for a cynical media - elements are bound to be blown out of proportion.

bb · Answer

NYT Article on HBS: HBS Case Study - Gender Inequity

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