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# While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading

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24 Jun 2013, 06:45
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While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms, unlike roses that grow in temperate climates, though, the thorns of desert roses also serve as reservoirs for water to forestall the ever-present threat of dehydration.

A- While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms, unlike roses
B- All roses’ protective thorns dissuade predators from feeding on their blooms; unlike those
C- The thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
D- While all roses’ thorns are protective, they dissuade predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
E- The thorns of all roses are protective and dissuade predators feeding on their blooms, however, unlike those
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

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Re: While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading pre [#permalink]

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24 Jun 2013, 07:24
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While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms, unlike roses that grow in temperate climates, though, the thorns of desert roses also serve as reservoirs for water to forestall the ever-present threat of dehydration.

We have to pay attention to three things here:
1- make the right comparison => thorns with thorns
A compares thorns with roses; out A.

2- make sure that the unerlined part "works" with the next part: the subject of "that grow in temperate climates" cannot be "the thorns" => must be the roses.
So we eliminate every answer that states "those (the thorns) that grow"; out B and E.

3- pay attention to the structure of the sentence:
C- The thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
Indipendent clause, COMMA +ING modifer; CORRECT and clear
D- While all roses’ thorns are protective, they dissuade predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
"While" at the beginning should express a contrast and there is none: "While all roses’ thorns are protective, they dissuade predators" they are saying the same thing.
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29 Jun 2013, 17:10
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Rock750 wrote:
While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms, unlike roses that grow in temperate climates, though, the thorns of desert roses also serve as reservoirs for water to forestall the ever-present threat of dehydration.

A- While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms, unlike roses
B- All roses’ protective thorns dissuade predators from feeding on their blooms; unlike those
C- The thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
D- While all roses’ thorns are protective, they dissuade predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
E- The thorns of all roses are protective and dissuade predators feeding on their blooms, however, unlike those

Most important thing to note here is the presence of semi-colon. It is a very important punctuation and help us to cross out few answer choices. Option A is screwed up. It has incorrect modifier. Comma -splice issue. In short whenever you are forced to make sense out of an option eliminate it. A is gone.

B changes the meaning. Do roses have different type of thorns-protective and some others ? That's not correct , at-least in the light of the meaning of this sentence. Gone.

C -> looks ok. proper Independent clauses between sentence and closely related in meaning. Answer.
D. While blah blah... ; The sentence around semi-colon must be clauses and not dependent clauses. This is a common incorrect answer choice in sentences with semi-colon, in which option tries to connect Sub-ordinate clauses with semi-colon(Although the part after while is not a clause). That's an incorrect option choice. Co-ordinating conjunctions(FANBOYS) are used to connect Subordinate clause to an independent clause.
E. As a general rule in SC. Co-ordinating conjunctions take comma and other conjunctions take semi-colon. Note particularly however uses a semi-colon before it and a comma after it. Hence it is out.
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11 Feb 2014, 02:24
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While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms, unlike roses that grow in temperate climates, though, the thorns of desert roses also serve as reservoirs for water to forestall the ever-present threat of dehydration.

We can rule out the majority of the options basing out analysis on the comparison between thorns of roses that live in temperate climates and those of roses that live in the desert.

A- While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms, unlike roses
Logically wrong: Unlike roses-the thorns.
B- All roses’ protective thorns dissuade predators from feeding on their blooms; unlike those
Logically wrong, unlike those that grow in... it's not the thorns that grow, but the roses.
C- The thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
Hold
D- While all roses’ thorns are protective, they dissuade predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
The comparison works but the usage of while is wrong, while indicates two parallel events.
E- The thorns of all roses are protective and dissuade predators feeding on their blooms, however, unlike those
Same as B
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23 Dec 2014, 19:30
Hi Zarrolou,

In 2). How do you know that "that" is referring to Roses not thorns. I mean thorns might wrong in winter season (I am no idea about seasonal variation of Roses and thorns). Is there any way to figure out what that is referring to on Exam.

Zarrolou wrote:
While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms, unlike roses that grow in temperate climates, though, the thorns of desert roses also serve as reservoirs for water to forestall the ever-present threat of dehydration.

We have to pay attention to three things here:
1- make the right comparison => thorns with thorns
A compares thorns with roses; out A.

2- make sure that the unerlined part "works" with the next part: the subject of "that grow in temperate climates" cannot be "the thorns" => must be the roses.
So we eliminate every answer that states "those (the thorns) that grow"; out B and E.

3- pay attention to the structure of the sentence:
C- The thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
Indipendent clause, COMMA +ING modifer; CORRECT and clear
D- While all roses’ thorns are protective, they dissuade predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
"While" at the beginning should express a contrast and there is none: "While all roses’ thorns are protective, they dissuade predators" they are saying the same thing.

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06 Feb 2016, 09:16
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13 Sep 2016, 03:54
In option C doesnt Those refer to Thorns of roses and not just Thorns?
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21 Sep 2016, 09:24
goforgmat wrote:
In option C doesnt Those refer to Thorns of roses and not just Thorns?
sayantanc2k

By virtue of parallelism, "those" refers to just "thorns", not "thorns of roses".

I am not clear why you think that "those" could refer to "thorns of roses" rather than just "thorns" - could you elaborate?
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22 Sep 2016, 07:24
sayantanc2k wrote:
goforgmat wrote:
In option C doesnt Those refer to Thorns of roses and not just Thorns?
sayantanc2k

By virtue of parallelism, "those" refers to just "thorns", not "thorns of roses".

I am not clear why you think that "those" could refer to "thorns of roses" rather than just "thorns" - could you elaborate?

The Rock Mountain News reported that the foreclosure rate in 2007 was 5.9%, 1.1 percent more than it was in 1988.

a. 1.1 percent more than it was in

b. 1.1 percent more than

c. a 1.1 percent increase from the rate in

d. 1.1 percent up from what it was in

e. 1.1 percent the rate in

In the above question "it" refers to the entire noun phrase "foreclosure rate in 2007" because of which the sentence is wrong.
Going by that logic here those refers not just to thorns but to the entire noun phrase thorns of roses.
Hence my question.
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22 Sep 2016, 09:05
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goforgmat wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
goforgmat wrote:
In option C doesnt Those refer to Thorns of roses and not just Thorns?
sayantanc2k

By virtue of parallelism, "those" refers to just "thorns", not "thorns of roses".

I am not clear why you think that "those" could refer to "thorns of roses" rather than just "thorns" - could you elaborate?

The Rock Mountain News reported that the foreclosure rate in 2007 was 5.9%, 1.1 percent more than it was in 1988.

a. 1.1 percent more than it was in

b. 1.1 percent more than

c. a 1.1 percent increase from the rate in

d. 1.1 percent up from what it was in

e. 1.1 percent the rate in

In the above question "it" refers to the entire noun phrase "foreclosure rate in 2007" because of which the sentence is wrong.
Going by that logic here those refers not just to thorns but to the entire noun phrase thorns of roses.
Hence my question.

The use of pronoun "that"/ "those" and the pronoun " it" are not same - "that"/ "those" can be used as a pronoun that creates a copy of the noun it refers to. The following sentence is correct:

The Rock Mountain News reported that the foreclosure rate in 2007 was 5.9%, 1.1 percent more than that in 1988.

Here "that" refers to just "foreclosure rate" - it creates a new copy of the rate.

This copy-creating "that" pronoun must always have a modifier attached to it that elaborates how the copy is different from the original.

The original "foreclosure" is different from the copy "that" in that the original is in 2007 and the copy is in 1988.

Similarly the original "thorns" is different from that copy "those" in that the original is of desert roses, whereas the copy is of roses that grow in temperate climates.
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22 Sep 2016, 23:05
By virtue of parallelism, "those" refers to just "thorns", not "thorns of roses".

I am not clear why you think that "those" could refer to "thorns of roses" rather than just "thorns" - could you elaborate?[/quote]

The Rock Mountain News reported that the foreclosure rate in 2007 was 5.9%, 1.1 percent more than it was in 1988.

a. 1.1 percent more than it was in

b. 1.1 percent more than

c. a 1.1 percent increase from the rate in

d. 1.1 percent up from what it was in

e. 1.1 percent the rate in

In the above question "it" refers to the entire noun phrase "foreclosure rate in 2007" because of which the sentence is wrong.
Going by that logic here those refers not just to thorns but to the entire noun phrase thorns of roses.
Hence my question.[/quote]

The use of pronoun "that"/ "those" and the pronoun " it" are not same - "that"/ "those" can be used as a pronoun that creates a copy of the noun it refers to. The following sentence is correct:

The Rock Mountain News reported that the foreclosure rate in 2007 was 5.9%, 1.1 percent more than that in 1988.

Here "that" refers to just "foreclosure rate" - it creates a new copy of the rate.

This copy-creating "that" pronoun must always have a modifier attached to it that elaborates how the copy is different from the original.

The original "foreclosure" is different from the copy "that" in that the original is in 2007 and the copy is in 1988.

Similarly the original "thorns" is different from that copy "those" in that the original is of desert roses, whereas the copy is of roses that grow in temperate climates.[/quote]

Thanks sayantanc2k for the explanation.
Its clear now
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02 Oct 2016, 02:25
Hi sayantanc2k,

Although I understand the reason behind C being correct but I feel choice C changes the meaning as it removes the contrast which was set up by 'while'. Is choice C correct but not ideal or this construction also conveys the same meaning. Thanks.

Can you also shed some light on use of however and nevertheless. Can these two be used like 'while' in dependent clauses or not?
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02 Oct 2016, 12:15
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Navinder wrote:
Hi sayantanc2k,

Although I understand the reason behind C being correct but I feel choice C changes the meaning as it removes the contrast which was set up by 'while'. Is choice C correct but not ideal or this construction also conveys the same meaning. Thanks.

Can you also shed some light on use of however and nevertheless. Can these two be used like 'while' in dependent clauses or not?

The contrast is set up by "unlike" and "though" later in the sentence. "While" is not required to set up the contrast. Choice C is alright.

"Nonetheless" and " however" are in most cases interchangeable. However (or nonetheless) "however" is closer to convey the meaning "but", whereas "nonetheless" is closer to the convey the meaning "even then" or "in spite of ". "While" is probably a dependent clause substitute for both, but I am not sure whether there could be cases in which it is not so.
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20 Jan 2017, 02:01
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Rock750 wrote:
While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms, unlike roses that grow in temperate climates, though, the thorns of desert roses also serve as reservoirs for water to forestall the ever-present threat of dehydration.

A- While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms, unlike roses
B- All roses’ protective thorns dissuade predators from feeding on their blooms; unlike those
C- The thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
D- While all roses’ thorns are protective, they dissuade predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
E- The thorns of all roses are protective and dissuade predators feeding on their blooms, however, unlike those

We have look for comparison and contrast in the above problem.

A-Incorrect While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms, unlike roses
Here roses are compared with thorns, which is in the non-underline part. At the same time while is not required because here no contrast is shown the first part of the sentence before semicolon
B- Incorrect All roses’ protective thorns dissuade predators from feeding on their blooms; unlike those
Here those can refer to roses or thorns
C- Correct The thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
Here "those" refers to thorns and comparison is clear
D- IncorrectWhile all roses’ thorns are protective, they dissuade predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
While is unnecessary, no contrast is shown.
E- IncorrectThe thorns of all roses are protective and dissuade predators feeding on their blooms, however, unlike those
Same as B
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Re: While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading   [#permalink] 20 Jan 2017, 02:01
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