Yale ($40K) vs Darden ($40K)

Question

Hi everyone,

I am fortunate enough to have been accepted to two great business schools: Yale SOM and Darden. Both schools have offered the same amount of scholarship
($20K/year). My immediate post-MBA career objective is consulting. I'm an international student and come from a non-profit (impact investment) background.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to attend the admitted students weekend at either of the schools owing to my work obligations. However from the research I've done to this point, in my mind, here are the pros and cons of the two schools:

Yale SOM:
1. Rising in rankings. Latest US News ranking has it at #8 tied with Tuck and ahead of CBS!
2. Accepts more students from non-profit/social impact backgrounds, so I'll feel more at home.
3. Located in the north east, which is my preferred location for my post-MBA job.
4. Does really well in investment banking and non-profit placements, probably not so much in consulting (?)

Darden:
1. The MBA programme at Darden is much older and more established / better known that Yale SOM.
2. Charlottesville sounds like a lovely place to live for two years.
3. Probably does better than Yale in terms of consulting placements (?)
4. The exclusive use of case method sounds too restrictive to me, and everyone (even current students and alums I've spoken to) acknowledges that the academic workload at Darden is excessive.

Would be really grateful to hear people's thoughts on this decision. This forum has been a great resource for me throughout my b school application process so I thought I'd get feedback from folks here on my quandary.

Flyte · Answer

This is very close, but if your goal is consulting, go to Darden. It places better into MBB and second tier firms. Additionally, Charlottesville is beautiful and offers a better quality of life.

Posted from my mobile device

exhex · Answer

Thanks  Flyte . I think its pretty clear that Yale doesn't place as well into MBB as the other top ten schools or even Darden for that matter (although I wonder why that is, given that the quality of students at Yale is apparently very good and from what I understand a very large proportion of them recruit for consulting). Do we know which major consulting firms have Yale or Darden as their core schools?

bb · Answer

I have not been able to find the exact split per company for Yale, but 30% go into consulting from Yale and they listed all of their recruiters/employers. MBB is here.... lacking more detailed data, I have a hard time comparing Darden and Yale. There is something to be said of Candidates vs. Schools (e.g would the same candidate from Yale be hired if she had attended Darden and vice versa and my guess is that the answer is generally Yes, as long as companies recruit on campus). Darden has an equivalent list of companies that I did not bother copying and crowding this list. At the end of the day, I am a bit hesitant to admit Darden's victory....

CONSULTING SERVICES hiring Yale SOM Grads in 2015 
A.T. Kearney
Accenture
Affirmative Investments Inc.
Analysis Group, Inc.
Bain & Company, Inc.
Bayer Business Consulting
Blue Ridge Partners
Booz Allen Hamilton
The Boston Consulting
Group, Inc.
The Bridgespan Group, Inc.
Casey Quirk & Associates LLC
Censeo Consulting Group
The Chartis Group, LLC
Community Wealth Partners
Deloitte LLP
EY (Ernst & Young)
Fidelity Business
Consulting (FBC)
Frog Design, Inc.
GEP Worldwide
Habtec Mott MacDonald
The Hackett Group
IDEO LLC
Infosys Limited
Innosight LLC
Inspiring Capital
Keystone Strategy
L.E.K. Consulting
McKinsey & Company
Monitor Deloitte
OnPrem Solution Partners
PA Consulting Group Limited
Parthenon EY
Redstone Strategy Group, LLC
Satori Consulting
Strategy&
Ziba Design

US Rankings Comparision: 
 https://gmatclub.com/forum/download/file.php?id=29918

8088 · Answer

Hey There,

Congrats on getting into two great schools! You have a tough decision ahead of you!

I want to jump in on this conversation and give you my thoughts!

First of all, I'm having trouble with  Flyte  says as they don't give any specific data or details to backup their opinion. (Separately, I am having a hard time finding a time when they have been pro-SOM in any thread, so you might want to take that with a grain of salt).  bb  has taken a swing at this, but allow me to finish up where he started.

It's a real shame that you won't be able to visit the campuses, as I am sure that you'll find them to be fairly different in regards to culture. I've only spoken to folks who have visited and applied, but I can't speak to Darden since I have not gone there, but at SOM we emphasize several things that are different form Darden:

First off, we have an integrated core curriculum, and as a result, you will not be learning all of your classes based on the case-methodology. This methodology has its time and place, but the professors at SOM feel that certain topics are best learned in different teaching styles - for example, our Operations Engine class should be taught differently from our Customer Class, which should be taught differently from our Modeling Managerial Decisions.

Secondly, as it sounds like you come from a non-profit background, you might fit in a bit better here. SOM has been known for it's focus in nonprofits in the past, and while we do lead our peers in regards to the percentage of students who enter this sector, it remains in the single digits percentage-wise. While this is the case, anyone you meet at SOM is socially conscious - and in this regard, I think that SOM students are very self-selecting. While many of us will not go into fields that not in the government or in the nonprofit sector, we believe strongly that we must be good stewards of our communities - and this is reflected in our coursework, events, and dialogues that take place on campus.

Thirdly, SOM is really emphasizes diversity - we have 40% international students in our MBA class, as well as 40% women MBAs, compared to Darden's 29% and 32% respectively - and when you add the Masters of Advanced Management Candidates, our international student percentage approaches 50%. Further, together with 27 other business schools from around the world, SOM is part of the Global Network for Advanced Management, where students can take classes with other students from GNAM schools, visit peer schools, and participate in masters classes. Finally, SOM has among the highest number of joint-degree candidates of any business school, approaching 20% of the MBA class, and MBAs can take classes anywhere throughout the entire Yale University - for example, I'm taking CS courses this Spring.

Fourthly, New Haven. Location entirely depends on what you're looking for. New Haven sometimes gets a bad reputation for it's post-industrial history, but recently has been undergoing a significant amount of revitalization with new projects, many Yale-based, in and around our community. If you're looking just for an isolated college town, you can go with Charlottesville. If you're looking for a mid-sized city (with all the benefits (Among the highest restaurants-per-capita) and drawbacks (some crime etc), within a train ride of both New York and Boston (which helps tremendously for recruiting), consider New Haven.

Fifth - Reputation, Trajectory, and Community - as  bb  noted, we're really proud of SOM's trajectory. B-school is sometimes compared to an investment and in this regard, you should look for a school that will provide you with a good ROI. I think SOM provides a unique value proposition in this regard, particularly with the Stewardship of Dean Snyder. SOM is fortunate to be associated very closely with Yale University and we are all very tightly-knit. Anyone whom I have reached out to - from SOM and from the greater University has always gotten back to me and been tremendously helpful. SOM, while a younger school, has an extraordinary alumni base - with the second highest alumni annual contribution rate (over 50%) and this year the class of 2016 reached a 100% participation rate for our class gift.

Alright, now on to consulting.

I had a tough time, just like  bb  finding specifics in regards to MBB placement. I'm not involved in Consulting (I'm a Tech Club Co-leader, and Technology is my wheelhouse), but if we do look at P&Q's aggregate analysis, I see there being very little differentiation between the two schools with regards to Consulting placement:

https://poetsandquants.com/2016/01/11/where-consulting-firms-scoop-up-mba-talent/2/

Industry:

Darden 29.4%
SOM 29.3%

Function:

Darden 31.6%
SOM 37.1%

While I don't know about this for Darden, I do know that SOM is one of the 10 core schools for all MBB. Looking at the percentages above, I'd say that SOM is at least as good as Darden, if not better if you're looking for consulting.

When it comes down to it, I think  bb  is on the money - it would be imprudent for companies to hire just based on a school's reputation. Rather, it should be the individual candidate who is evaluated for a specific position.

Happy to jump on the phone if you'd like to chat - or if you'd like to also chat with friends in Consulting, I'm happy to put you in touch too! Just shoot me a note at daniel.kent yale.edu

Best of luck,

Dan '16

Flyte · Answer

Interesting that you decided to insinuate that I have an anti-SOM opinion, when I don't have a dog in the fight. It seems a bit unnecessarily defensive, but whatever suits you.

Regarding data points the one that is exceedingly relevant for the OP is that SOM for the class of 2014 full-time placed ~8.4% of the class into MBB, Darden placed 13.75% into MBB. Hence I'd say that is a fairly significant difference. And while the raw number of SOM students going into MBB has increased as the class has rapidly grown (249 to ~325), it still hovers around the 10% mark (Source: a SOM '16 and former colleague who is going to full-time MBB).

8088  Daniel I suggest you speak with your own consulting club, who will verify the above, before suggesting that any bias is at play. If this was IBD I would have suggested the OP go to SOM, but the simple fact is SOM lags behind its peer schools when it comes to top tier consulting, while punching above its weight for IBD. Every school has their strength. To point this out is hardly a bias, it's just a simple fact.

8088 · Answer

Flyte ,

Thanks for your feedback, you're spot on - my ad hominem argument was inappropriate and for that I apologize. There is really no excuse and it was indeed unnecessarily defensive. Again, I'm sorry - this is out of my character and the contrary to the standard to which I hold myself. Having gone back and looked at your post history, you are indeed correct, you have a very balanced opinion of SOM and I have mis-remembered. Again, I hope you can accept my apology.

I'm not too sure about specific MBB data, again I was only able to find aggregate industry data, so that is what I posted. Regarding your post, I'm going to reach out to our CDO and Consulting Club exactly like you said - I should have done that before I posted.

Thanks for the reality check, I definitely needed it. Best of luck to you and OP.

Dan SOM '16

Wilch · Answer

I will say that even the non-SOM Yale alumni are incredibly responsive and helpful from my experience. So it does open up your network a bit more than the more traditional business schools that are more independent from their respective parent universities.

Not sure how well Darden connects with its parent university, so can't really comment that.

Posted from my mobile device

Not sure how well Darden connects with its parent university, so can't really comment that.

Posted from my mobile device

exhex · Answer

Thanks a lot for the extremely helpful information  bb ,  8088 ,  Flyte  and  Wilch !
I will reach out to the consulting clubs at both schools to get more accurate data about consulting placements.  8088 , I will reach out to you privately as well to get more information on Yale SOM, but just for the benefit of other people on this forum who might be considering these schools, another data point that sticks out to me is the percentage of students having full-time employment offers at the time of graduation, which is significantly lower for Yale (~75%) as compared to Darden (~90%) according to US News. That sounds to me like it should be one of the more important stats to consider when looking at a b school. Any particular reason that Yale lags behind in this area? Maybe its because of the number of students at Yale looking at non-traditional career paths which might take longer and be more unstructured in terms of career search and getting offers?

Wilch · Answer

My guess is Yale places their graduates on a wider spectrum in both functions and industries than the more traditional business schools that send their graduates to consulting and banking firms. I'd think the more traditional MBA roles typically start sooner than later.

Definitely check with each school's consulting club to get a more accurate picture.

Posted from my mobile device

Definitely check with each school's consulting club to get a more accurate picture.

Posted from my mobile device

aerien · Answer

You're right, that stat is low and it's something SOM is working on. I'll say that from what I've seen, the people still searching at that point fall into 1 of 3 categories: 1) Those seeking either non-trad industries or functions that hire "just in time" (think: media & entertainment, sports management, as well as non-profit, foundations, government), 2) Those who are very choosy about their exact location, function, industry (these people could have gotten an offer and often many of them have turned down offers to pursue their passion or "best" fit), and 3) Those who are internationals looking for US job placements (some have offers abroad but are still looking specifically in the US). Again, I don't have exact stats on this -- nor is this from any official source -- but from what I've seen, it seems to fit.

I think  Wilch  said it well when noting the breadth of functions and industries that SOMers like to pursue. It's that diversity that makes SOM unique, but it also makes the recruiting process a little longer and a little more self-serving. The Career Development Office cannot focus 90% of its recruiting solely on finance or MBB opportunities; it has to cater to a wide variety of students who all have individual (perhaps less trodden) paths they want to pursue.

jessepinkman · Answer

I'd lean Darden here based on MBB placement but I think you should really choose on fit as Yale and Darden are peer schools. Speak to as many current students as you can and try to get a sense for which culture fits you better. Best of luck!

VeritasPrepDozie · Answer

Tough choice here, both schools to me are essentially peer schools that will offer largely the same opportunities. I would really focus on where you feel the best fit. I think the advice above is spot on, talk to some alums and current students to get a feel for where you think you will fit in the best.

Toews2Kane · Answer

I'm a Darden Class of 16 grad here who interned at MBB and will be returning to MBB.

My biggest piece of advice for you is to go to whatever school feels like the best fit. I had an absolutely fantastic experience at Darden and would do it again in a heartbeat (sad that it is coming to an end). My anecdotal impression is that yes, Darden may place a higher percentage of its student body into MBB than SOM does. However, there are many different contributing factors to this, and at the end of the day you will likely have the same probability of getting MBB/consulting from SOM or Darden.

You'll end up fine career-wise whether or not you choose Darden or SOM, so I suggest you go with your heart. I could sell you on Darden, but I'm sure you're informed of its reputation. That being said, it has been quite possibly the two best years of my life.

Yale ($40K) vs Darden ($40K)

Which b school should I go to?

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