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kryzak
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) 22 Aug 2007, 16:39
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Hey Everyone,

Thanks to avi, Praet, and others' feedback, Praet set up an "Admitted Student's Essay" invite only forum here:

https://www.gmatclub.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=110

We hope to strengthen GMATClub's B-school application services (so it grows as strong as the GMAT section), and thought that having essays from people who are admitted to b-schools will help the prospective students greatly! All we have today are those included in books like Bodine, Montauk, MBA Game Plan, and HBS 65 Essays. Those often contain "superhuman" stories that just don't help us "common Joes" much. ;) If we can get a greater sample of what good essays are from common people who do not have Olympic medals or saved the President from jihadists in Iran, it'll hopefully get more GMATClubbers into the school of their dreams!

With that said, I think our preliminary requirements are:

- Remove all personal info from the essays, so no names of who you talked to, who you are, etc... To protect your privacy

- It's probably still good to mention which school you applied to so we know what the school was looking for

- Oh yeah, include the question and word limit

Submit it to Praet and he'll post it up in the forum (is that correct, Praet?). Or maybe you'll be able to post it yourself in the future.

Let's standardize the title of the post. Something like:

[Name of School] - [Question] - [Application Year]

Ex: Stanford - What Matters Most - 2006-2007

Any better suggestions are welcome!


For access, similar to GMATClub Challenges, you need a certain amount of HELPFUL posts to be invited by Praet (or you can "apply" for access with Praet). It's not an exact science yet, so stay tuned for that.

Alright, hopefully we'll get this going soon! :-D
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) Updated on: 22 Aug 2007, 21:19
Originally posted by Praetorian on 22 Aug 2007, 17:20.
Last edited by Praetorian on 22 Aug 2007, 21:19, edited 2 times in total.
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400 posts sounds like a good number.

I have enabled access to some of the currently admitted students. They should be able to see the forum and post in it. Alternatively, they can send me a PM.
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) 22 Aug 2007, 17:29
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i dont have 400 posts, but ive been registered here for a year and hang out on the site about 15 hours a day...can i get access?
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dabots
i dont have 400 posts, but ive been registered here for a year and hang out on the site about 15 hours a day...can i get access?
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Dont do this to me people. Let me think about this.
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) 22 Aug 2007, 17:45
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Praet you could always make it like an invite list...like when Gmail first came out. You had the initial people who got an invite from people who worked for google and those people got invites to give to people. That way its not all on you who gets in, you can just appoint some people to be the ones to be in charge of new members.

Put me in charge and i will make it a real interesting process...

All applicants must answer the following essay.

Why are you pursuing access to the Admitted Student Essay Forum (ASEF) at this point in your GMATClub career. Briefly assess your posting contributions to this point. Please elaborate on your future posting ideas and how the ASEF will help you reach those goals. (237 word maximum)

Submissions will be reviewed by three moderators who will provide their recommendations to at least one CEO who will make the final decision. Decision will be approximately 4-6 days after submittal. No additional materials will be accepted.
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) Updated on: 22 Aug 2007, 18:14
Originally posted by Praetorian on 22 Aug 2007, 18:10.
Last edited by Praetorian on 22 Aug 2007, 18:14, edited 2 times in total.
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Praet you could always make it like an invite list...like when Gmail first came out. You had the initial people who got an invite from people who worked for google and those people got invites to give to people. That way its not all on you who gets in, you can just appoint some people to be the ones to be in charge of new members.

Put me in charge and i will make it a real interesting process...

All applicants must answer the following essay.

Why are you pursuing access to the Admitted Student Essay Forum (ASEF) at this point in your GMATClub career. Briefly assess your posting contributions to this point. Please elaborate on your future posting ideas and how the ASEF will help you reach those goals. (237 word maximum)

Submissions will be reviewed by three moderators who will provide their recommendations to at least one CEO who will make the final decision. Decision will be approximately 4-6 days after submittal. No additional materials will be accepted.
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riverripper

We should certainly make sure that the members who deserve access get it. The essay proposal is a nice deterrent. It is something we considered with the GMAT Club challenges to avoid members who were gaming the system. I just think it would involves a lot of unnecessary work on the moderators part and it is a little harsh (where are the essays for the current moderators :twisted: )

I set a target of 400 posts because:

a) I am a privacy freak and I would like to protect the privacy of anyone who chooses to turn in their essays in a public forum. 400 seems like a high enough barrier that ensures that no cheapskates get past the filter easily.

b) It is an objective number that tells people that they are only welcome if they are honest participants interested in helping others.

c) I hate it when I have to deny access. We want to be inclusive and help as much as possible. What I end up doing is offering suggestions on how to improve the contributions to make sure it is consistent with other contributions in the past.

d) Since I am the only one who approves access, I can ensure that the process is fair and consistent for all members. This has worked fairly well with the challenges and ensures that we dont unnecessarily annoy a lot of people.

I guess my point is that I want to minimize the administration part on the part of the members so that you can concentrate on your contributions.

I hope this makes sense to you.
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) 22 Aug 2007, 18:11
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LOL!!! riverripper, you almost made me spew water all over my keyboard! ;)
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) 22 Aug 2007, 18:29
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Praet,

I'm not sure if 400 is a bit high... There are only 200 members out of 39,000+ on this forum that have 400+, and many of them were last year's members who no longer post (I don't recognize a bunch of the names).

Even if you drop it to 300, there are only 271 members with that or more, and then you get to include folks like bsd, nervousgmat, and others who *have* contributed to both the GMAT forums and B-school App forums.

I fully understand your desire for privacy, as I am on the same boat. I just think 300 is probably a good enough threshold to limit the amount of people who can get to the Essays.

Another idea I have is to do a HYBRID method.

Set the posts at 400 so that people who spam the boards won't easily get access (and we can check to see that most of their posts are spam by looking at their profile at a glance), BUT also allow people to submit "essays" like the one riverripper suggested if they're say... between 200-400 posts? This will put the burden on the applicants to pick some of the good posts they've had in the past to convince you to let him/her in.

EDIT: The post limit will also make it so that not too many people try to "apply" to get in unless they have been on the boards long enough. The "essays" don't have to be long. It could be as simple as "Here are my major contributions: [link] [link] [link]" or something like that.

As long as the "essays" are short and just a few links here and there to their good posts, I don't mind looking through them and getting back to you (Praet) on my recommendations. I'm sure mNeo, riverripper, and ncprasad probably wouldn't mind too much, would they?

Just a thought, since I see too many good members being excluded by this who have between 200-400 posts.

Thanks for considering.
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) 22 Aug 2007, 18:40
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Praet,

I'm not sure if 400 is a bit high... There are only 200 members out of 39,000+ on this forum that have 400+, and many of them were last year's members who no longer post (I don't recognize a bunch of the names).

Even if you drop it to 300, there are only 271 members with that or more, and then you get to include folks like bsd, nervousgmat, and others who *have* contributed to both the GMAT forums and B-school App forums.

I fully understand your desire for privacy, as I am on the same boat. I just think 300 is probably a good enough threshold to limit the amount of people who can get to the Essays.

Another idea I have is to do a HYBRID method.

Set the posts at 400 so that people who spam the boards won't easily get access (and we can check to see that most of their posts are spam by looking at their profile at a glance), BUT also allow people to submit "essays" like the one riverripper suggested if they're say... between 200-400 posts? This will put the burden on the applicants to pick some of the good posts they've had in the past to convince you to let him/her in.

EDIT: The post limit will also make it so that not too many people try to "apply" to get in unless they have been on the boards long enough. The "essays" don't have to be long. It could be as simple as "Here are my major contributions: [link] [link] [link]" or something like that.

As long as the "essays" are short and just a few links here and there to their good posts, I don't mind looking through them and getting back to you (Praet) on my recommendations. I'm sure mNeo, riverripper, and ncprasad probably wouldn't mind too much, would they?

Just a thought, since I see too many good members being excluded by this who have between 200-400 posts.

Thanks for considering.
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Guys,
I have been a member for more than a year but It was only in th epast few months that I started contributing actively. I am currently hovering around 100 posts and it would take a looong time to get to 300 or 400 posts ...as I am opposed to spamming the board.
Any alternative route ????
I can fill up starbucks card value for the moderators if needed :-D

On a serious note....this thread will be highly helpful for geniune applicants for fall 2008 and we have a whole bunch for that...
Riverripper...IF you prepare an invite list...please include me tooo and I will be more than happy to be of help in any endeavor pertaining to this list.
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) 22 Aug 2007, 18:56
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kryzak
As long as the "essays" are short and just a few links here and there to their good posts, I don't mind looking through them and getting back to you (Praet) on my recommendations. I'm sure mNeo, riverripper, and ncprasad probably wouldn't mind too much, would they?
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I wouldn't mind. The hardest part would be rejecting someone who you don't honestly think has contributed much. Also since i don't really read any of the GMAT forums like the Math and Verbal areas I would have no clue who has been extremely helpful there.

I would be willing to nominate people. I mean I nominated some people for Moderators and that worked out well so far (don't let me down guys). That could work, if people don't have the number of posts but their posts have been of high quality and added a lot of value then simply creating a list of who is believed to be solid additions to our little community would be a great start. Though its easier for me to recognize peoples avatars than screennames ususally. I mean the devil guy, wierd star warsy people, and the little penguin (that I swear is in every thread) stick out way more than names like bsd_lover, nervousgmat, and of course mNeo.
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) 22 Aug 2007, 19:35
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Hi,
Well, after having read all the snippets Rhyme posted I am dying to read those essays... However, I doubt I will ever make it to 400 posts. I certainly enjoy participating here and have posted where I felt I had something to add to a discussion. However, as a recovering Lit major, I tend to stay out of discussions about how to answer quant problems. (seems best for all involved :help2 ) I agree with Praetorian's assertion that, if access is to be limited, the criterea ought to be transparent to the community at large. It would be nice if there were a larger definition of community service but obviously that would be very difficult to monitor. I do feel that I have gained from my time spent here and I would like to enrich the community where and when my skill set is of use. If someone needs a reader I would be happy to oblige (this being an area where I have significant experience)... besides I want to see what biriyani looks like in PDF. :)
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) 22 Aug 2007, 20:05
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Oh my.. 400 posts... :P

I'll start with this one.. hehe

I think though, that it should depend on the quality of the posts made. However, I understand that it's hard to check the quality of all the posts and that if somebody has posted 400 posts,there SHOULD be some good quality posts... :P

Oh well... I guess I'll just have to start posting more... and more... :P
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) 22 Aug 2007, 20:27
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riverripper
the little penguin (that I swear is in every thread)
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I knew I was spending too much time here instead of working on the essays :(
Oh well, at least kryzak and riverripper are also spending just as much time here. That makes me feel better.

I don't know about the criteria to get access to the essays. I am certainly okay with reviewing someone's contributions - if that's what we decide to go with. But I also see Praet's point about minimizing the administration and about having one person to judge contribution - thus keeping the process fair.

Judging the contribution is going to be a tricky job. As riverripper said, if somebody creates a profile with a striking avatar and posts frequently for 4-5 days, we may start considering that person a good contributor .. even if he really isn't. So, a fair and defined process of judging contribution becomes very important.

However, I agree with others who said that 400 is a high number. What if the "number of posts" is to be used only as the minimum eligibility criteria - after which Praet will look at your contribution's value? Then maybe we can put it at a number lower than 400. After all, even after becoming eligible, the person's post will go through Praet's close scrutiny anyway.

ps. I share the privacy concerns. We will need to ensure that every person who gets access to the essays is trustworthy.
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) 22 Aug 2007, 20:58
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mNeo
ps. I share the privacy concerns. We will need to ensure that every person who gets access to the essays is trustworthy.
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Great point and IMO, this endeavor will be successful and useful only if the above point is achieved.
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) 22 Aug 2007, 21:11
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Everyone - stop complaining about access to essays.

Keep posting sensible stuff, be positive and you will get to see the essays.

Its not the end of the universe. With or without's rhyme's essays, you would get into B-school. Just work hard :P :P :P :P :P :lol: :wink:

I added so many smiley faces so that the tone does not sound harsh.. I am a nice guy.

Now only to please the CEOs so that I get added secretly...
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) 22 Aug 2007, 22:02
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it's a tough one... but like mNeo said, I still think the "hybrid" method will work the best. Have a slightly lower post count, like 250 or 300, and then have Praet determine if they're a good person before admitting. Just like GMATClub Challenges. Just because you have 400 or 300 or whatever number posts does not mean you automatically get in... wait a second, this is beginning to sound like B-school applications! ;)

Anyway, we'll see what Praet says to all this, but I really think 400 is a bit high... though with my post count these days, I guess it's not super "hard" to reach it, you just have to be an uber-procrastinator and log on here whenever you have to write essays ;)
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) 22 Aug 2007, 23:07
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kryzak
it's a tough one... but like mNeo said, I still think the "hybrid" method will work the best. Have a slightly lower post count, like 250 or 300, and then have Praet determine if they're a good person before admitting. Just like GMATClub Challenges. Just because you have 400 or 300 or whatever number posts does not mean you automatically get in... wait a second, this is beginning to sound like B-school applications! ;)
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I agree with Kryzak's proposal.

I also think the decision should lie with and only with Praet. From time to time, one of us can nominate someone else if we like and again leave it up to Praet to make the decision.

One thing I would like to say is "Dont be offended" if Praet says No. He did that to me when I asked for access to GMAT Club challenges. His response made absolutely no difference to me and how I participate in this forum. If anything, I provided a lot of advice on CR tactics after Praet denied me access.

I personally think that this club does not owe anybody anything. Many of us would not be so well versed in the application process without this club. Personally, interacting with such a great group of people is rewarding enough.
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) 22 Aug 2007, 23:18
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kryzak
it's a tough one... but like mNeo said, I still think the "hybrid" method will work the best. Have a slightly lower post count, like 250 or 300, and then have Praet determine if they're a good person before admitting. Just like GMATClub Challenges. Just because you have 400 or 300 or whatever number posts does not mean you automatically get in... wait a second, this is beginning to sound like B-school applications! ;)

I agree with Kryzak's proposal.

I also think the decision should lie with and only with Praet. From time to time, one of us can nominate someone else if we like and again leave it up to Praet to make the decision.

One thing I would like to say is "Dont be offended" if Praet says No. He did that to me when I asked for access to GMAT Club challenges. His response made absolutely no difference to me and how I participate in this forum. If anything, I provided a lot of advice on CR tactics after Praet denied me access.

I personally think that this club does not owe anybody anything. Many of us would not be so well versed in the application process without this club. Personally, interacting with such a great group of people is rewarding enough.
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ncprasad

Not everyone takes it this well. People dont always get that I have to be consistent with how I do this.
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) 23 Aug 2007, 03:32
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The not-so-subtle point I am trying to make is that number of posts though a rough indicator of a persons activity, it can still not be a deciding criterion.

The bulk of ppl's posts come from the GMAT section........I unfortuneately did not come accross this site till after my GMAT. I would like to help ppl, but I really have precious lil to contribute. An I really dont wanna increase the number of my posts by posting asinine LOL's

Aaaaaaarrggggg..........I am one of the poor buggers who dosent even have one of those fance B-School books. I am preparing my apps purely on the basis of what gmatclub tells me. An now I find out that you guys are forming a secret club that I cant be part of. Its like Class 5 all over again.

I think I'm gonna get a kicker-arse avtar to gain some PR points.
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2007 Admitted GMATClubbers - Submit your Essays! ;) 23 Aug 2007, 03:48
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I think this is a great idea!
Once you got through the GMAT (and increased your postcount by posting in the Verbal and Quant section) you start thinking about the essays, the postcount limit for access will stimulate people to contribute to the site and will serve as a reward for your effort.

Maybe you should check in the database (if possible in some way) what the average postcount is of someone who finished the GMAT to set the target.

my 2 cents
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