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thanks a lot Bunuel
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Yes excellent. With or without replacement gives same answer. Can you give me an example where
The results are different?

Also while in the topic of probability can you answer the following please, my guesses are mentioned

Distribute 10 different rocks among 15 people ? 10^15
Distribute 10 identical rocks among 15 ? Not sure
Distribute 15 different rocks among 10 ? 15^10
Distribute 15 identical rocks among 10? 15+9 C 9
thanks

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Yes excellent. With or without replacement gives same answer. Can you give me an example where
The results are different?

Also while in the topic of probability can you answer the following please, my guesses are mentioned

Distribute 10 different rocks among 15 people ? 10^15
Distribute 10 identical rocks among 15 ? Not sure
Distribute 15 different rocks among 10 ? 15^10
Distribute 15 identical rocks among 10? 15+9 C 9
thanks

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Distribute 10 different rocks among 15 people? 10^15
Distribute 10 identical rocks among 15? (10+15-1)C(15-1)=24C14
Distribute 15 different rocks among 10? 15^10
Distribute 15 identical rocks among 10? (15+10-1)C(10-1)=24C9

Direct formulas for identical objects:
The total number of ways of dividing n identical items among r persons, each one of whom, can receive 0,1,2 or more items is \(n+r-1C_{r-1}\).

The total number of ways of dividing n identical items among r persons, each one of whom receives at least one item is \(n-1C_{r-1}\).


I doubt you'll see division of identical object involving such a big numbers on GMAT or division of different objects when each can get at least n objects (the question you've asked before) involving such a big numbers. With smaller numbers you can solve with different approaches depending on problem. So I would not worry about this questions too much. Better to concentrate on other areas.
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Excellent Bunuel. Now if you can clarify one more point. Same cases as 1 and 2 above, but in this case the question is - we pull balls 1by1 , what is the probability of seeing a blue one in the 9th draw (i) with replacement - i think this is easy 5/12 (ii) without replacement - i believe the answer here is also 5/12. My question how?

A jar contains 5 blue balls and 7 black balls. One by one, every ball is selected at random without replacement. What is the probability that the 9th ball selected is blue?

The probability of drawing blue ball is 5/12 and it will not change for ANY successive drawing: second, third, fourth...
--> WHY??

If I draw 1 blue ball only 4 will be left (no replacement...) - next prob. of drawing blue should be 4/11 ??
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Excellent Bunuel. Now if you can clarify one more point. Same cases as 1 and 2 above, but in this case the question is - we pull balls 1by1 , what is the probability of seeing a blue one in the 9th draw (i) with replacement - i think this is easy 5/12 (ii) without replacement - i believe the answer here is also 5/12. My question how?

A jar contains 5 blue balls and 7 black balls. One by one, every ball is selected at random without replacement. What is the probability that the 9th ball selected is blue?

The probability of drawing blue ball is 5/12 and it will not change for ANY successive drawing: second, third, fourth...
--> WHY??

If I draw 1 blue ball only 4 will be left (no replacement...) - next prob. of drawing blue should be 4/11 ??

I think you misinterpreted the question (or I made it ambiguous). The question is: what is the probability that the 9th ball will be blue and it's meant that we don't know the results of first 8 draws (or drawing has not started yet and we are just curious what is the probability that 9th ball will be blue). If I pick one by one and every time I know the result then of course the probability of drawing of a blue ball will change depending on results of previous drawings.

Consider the following: these 12 balls were put in a line randomly. Now, what is the probability that the 9th ball will be blue? ANY ball in a line has equal chances to be blue and ANY ball has equal chances to be black. Why would the probability of say 4th and 7th balls of being blue be different? For any ball in a line p=5/12 to be blue and for any ball p=7/12 to be black: for any ball in a line the probability of being blue plus the probability of being black must be 1, as there are only black and blue balls in a line. This example is basically the same as our original question, so answer for original question is also 5/12.

Follow the links in my previous post for similar problems.

Hope it helps.
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Makes more sense now, thanks! Was just relatively hard to comprehend at first, what really was meant, but you made it clear!
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Thanks Bunuel. I just chose the numbers at. Random, I see GMAT use smaller numbers, and then some start existing options, but the formula is more powerful. Also was curious to know how identical vs different changed the answers.

I wouldn't have known the replacement vs nonreplacement giving the same probability, thanks for the explanation to the prioranswer.

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Thank you Bunuel !
I wish you had been there in my school for maths :)

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londonluddite
5 blue marbles, 3 red marbles and 4 purple marbles are placed in a bag. If 4 marbles are drawn without replacement, what is the probability that the result will not be 2 blue and 2 purple marbles?

A. 4/33
B. (5/36)^2
C. 1/2
D. (31/36)^2
E. 29/33

We can use the formula:

P(will not be 2 blue and 2 purple marbles) = 1 - P(2 blue and 2 purple marbles)

We can select two blue marbles in 5C2 = (5 x 4)/2! = 10 ways.

We can select 2 purple marbles in 4C2 = (4 x 3)/2! = 6 ways.

Thus, the total number of pairings of 2 blue and 2 purple marbles is 10 x 6 = 60 ways.

We can select 4 marbles from 12 in 12C4 = (12 x 11 x 10 x 9)/(4 x 3 x 2) = 11 x 5 x 9 = 495 ways.

Thus, P(2 blue and 2 purple marbles) = 60/495 = 20/165 = 4/33.

So, P(will not be 2 blue and 2 purple marbles) = 1 - 4/33 = 29/33.

Answer: E
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5 blue marbles, 3 red marbles and 4 purple marbles are placed in a bag. If 4 marbles are drawn WITHOUT replacement, what is the probability that the result will not be 2 blue and 2 purple marbles?

Given: 5B+3R+4P=12 marbles. Question: what is the probability of NOT having scenario BBPP.

Calculate the probability of an opposite event and subtract this value from 1.

Opposite event is that out of 4 marbles we will have 2 blue and 2 purple marbles (scenario BBPP):
\(P(opposite \ event)=\frac{4!}{2!2!}*\frac{5}{12}*\frac{4}{11}*\frac{4}{10}*\frac{3}{9}=\frac{4}{33}\), we are multiplying by \(\frac{4!}{2!2!}\) as scenario BBPP can occur in several ways: BBPP, PPBB, BPBP, ... So scenario BBPP can occur in \(\frac{4!}{2!2!}\) # of ways (# of permuations of 4 letters BBPP out of which 2 B's and 2 P's are identical);

Or with combinatorics \(P(opposte \ event)=\frac{C^2_5*C^2_4}{C^4_{12}}=\frac{4}{33}\).

So \(P=1-\frac{4}{33}=\frac{29}{33}\).

5 blue marbles, 3 red marbles and 4 purple marbles are placed in a bag. If 4 marbles are drawn WITH replacement, what is the probability that the result will not be 2 blue and 2 purple marbles?

Again Calculate the probability of an opposite event and subtract this value from 1.

Opposite event is that out of 4 marbles we will have 2 blue and 2 purple marbles:
\(P(opposite \ event)=\frac{4!}{2!2!}*\frac{5}{12}*\frac{5}{12}*\frac{4}{12}*\frac{4}{12}=\frac{25}{216}\), the same reason to multiply by \(\frac{4!}{2!2!}\);

So \(P=1-\frac{25}{216}=\frac{191}{216}\).

Similar problem: https://gmatclub.com/forum/probability- ... 55253.html

Hope it helps.

Hello Bunuel Sir,

2 doubts
1.
When using combinatronics to solve for the opposite case why didn't you multiply by
4!/2!2!
after all applying combinations means just selecting and not arranging

2.
In the new case you presented (WITH replacement) how different would the combinatorics formula be from
2C5*2C4/4C12=4/33
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Bunuel
5 blue marbles, 3 red marbles and 4 purple marbles are placed in a bag. If 4 marbles are drawn WITHOUT replacement, what is the probability that the result will not be 2 blue and 2 purple marbles?

Given: 5B+3R+4P=12 marbles. Question: what is the probability of NOT having scenario BBPP.

Calculate the probability of an opposite event and subtract this value from 1.

Opposite event is that out of 4 marbles we will have 2 blue and 2 purple marbles (scenario BBPP):
\(P(opposite \ event)=\frac{4!}{2!2!}*\frac{5}{12}*\frac{4}{11}*\frac{4}{10}*\frac{3}{9}=\frac{4}{33}\), we are multiplying by \(\frac{4!}{2!2!}\) as scenario BBPP can occur in several ways: BBPP, PPBB, BPBP, ... So scenario BBPP can occur in \(\frac{4!}{2!2!}\) # of ways (# of permuations of 4 letters BBPP out of which 2 B's and 2 P's are identical);

Or with combinatorics \(P(opposte \ event)=\frac{C^2_5*C^2_4}{C^4_{12}}=\frac{4}{33}\).

So \(P=1-\frac{4}{33}=\frac{29}{33}\).

5 blue marbles, 3 red marbles and 4 purple marbles are placed in a bag. If 4 marbles are drawn WITH replacement, what is the probability that the result will not be 2 blue and 2 purple marbles?

Again Calculate the probability of an opposite event and subtract this value from 1.

Opposite event is that out of 4 marbles we will have 2 blue and 2 purple marbles:
\(P(opposite \ event)=\frac{4!}{2!2!}*\frac{5}{12}*\frac{5}{12}*\frac{4}{12}*\frac{4}{12}=\frac{25}{216}\), the same reason to multiply by \(\frac{4!}{2!2!}\);

So \(P=1-\frac{25}{216}=\frac{191}{216}\).

Similar problem: https://gmatclub.com/forum/probability- ... 55253.html

Hope it helps.

Hello Bunuel Sir,

2 doubts
1.
When using combinatronics to solve for the opposite case why didn't you multiply by
4!/2!2!
after all applying combinations means just selecting and not arranging

2.
In the new case you presented (WITH replacement) how different would the combinatorics formula be from
2C5*2C4/4C12=4/33

1. The key here is maintaining consistency between the numerator and denominator and understanding what multiplying by 4!/2!2! actually does.
We multiply the probability of drawing BBPP by 4!/2!2! because the BBPP outcome can occur in multiple ways:

  • BBPP (first two blue, last two purple)
  • PPBB (first two purple, last two blue)
  • BPBP, BPBB, etc.

Since these are distinct scenarios, we need to account for all of them when calculating probability.

Now, when using the combinations approach, we calculate C(2,5) * C(2,4) / C(4,12), where:

  • The numerator represents the number of ways to select 2 blue and 2 purple marbles.
  • The denominator represents the total number of ways to select 4 marbles from 12.

It's crucial to observe that both the numerator and denominator give unordered groups of 4 marbles (meaning BBPP is counted only once, without considering different orders like BPBP or PPBB).

Therefore, multiplying by 4!/2!2!, which accounts for arrangements, would break the consistency. In the numerator, you'd have the number of groups considering order, while in the denominator, it would still be without it. That’s why multiplying by 4!/2!2! does not make sense in the combinations approach.

2. The combinations approach is not good for the with replacement case because combinations involve selecting groups of objects at once, which inherently assumes selection without replacement.
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