A Blatantly Unscientific Inquiry

Question

In the spirit of the completely unscientific "grandparent test" (which of these two schools would sound more impressive to a hypothetical grandparent) I propose the equally unscientific "grade schooler" test. The truly most impressive schools should be the ones that we first hear of as children/young adults. 

I'll go first: 

1) HBS
2) Wharton (I thought the name sounded cool)

gmatclb · Answer

You could say you went to Howard Business School.

aaudetat · Answer

My parents don't even really know what an MBA is. I mean, they do now, but they didn't a year ago.

In my world -- both among non-business educated types and among the more non-educated of my friends and family -- no one has ever heard of Wharton or Haas or just about any other named school. 

When you're just talking about the universities, the Ivies, Stanford, and schools with big sports teams get lots of oohs and aahs. Though it's funny - people back home were more excited about UNC than Berkeley. Better basketball, I guess. The PAC-10 doesn't get a lot of play in the midwest.

johnnyx9 · Answer

My grandfather hadn't heard of either of those schools. He said the only school "worth salt" was the school of hard knocks, because to get there you have to walk barefoot in the snow, uphill both ways -- it builds character. Then he punched me in the face and told me to stop being such a p*ssy.

gmatclb · Answer

In college sports, the pac-10 gets no respect except for 'SC.

Ironic, considering UCLA is the first to 100 championships and

died4me · Answer

my friends and folks in Asia know HAVARD, YALE, MIT, PRINCETON, UCLA, UCB, MICHIGAN, (I have no idea why...) NYU, BOSTON UNIV or College. (they just know BOSTON).

me: I will attend Duke
friends: DUKE? what's that? where is it? 
me: it's in North Carolina! 
friends: what's that? Where is NC?
me: it is about 4 hours from D.C.
friends: oh. good luck

mNeo · Answer

I think for my dad, it would be Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge and MIT. But then he'll not take too much time in googling for "best MBA universities" or some such, and call me up to let me know how he thinks that I will have a very good chance in Wharton and Tuck. :-D

squali83 · Answer

I know that for my parents it would be Stanford Stanford Stanford. After that they would consider and school with a great rep as a great achievement. 

Interesting bit of info that relates. My grandfather was not too versed in post secondary education. So when my father went to him and mentioned he got a full ride to U of Chicago for undergrad, his response was, " why would you want to go to the south side for college, go somewhere nice". It is funny how persons not imersed in academia do not recognize great schools unless they are Harvard or Stanford.

helpslip · Answer

...Cal and Columbia in the parent's Alma Mater dept. My father was a student when I was a little so I spent time roaming about the campus when I was a child. I also remember stories about my mother's time in I house. However, absent a direct familial tie, the names with the most resonance would undoubtedly include Oxford, Cambridge, & Trinity. I am quite sure that most of my family would think more highly of an admit at Oxford than one at many prestigious US institutions.

shmegs · Answer

I agree with died4me,

When I talk to my grandparents who live in India about business schools their only response is "are you applying to Harvard?". It's amazing really, I did my undergrad in Boston and my grandpa still tells everyone I went to Harvard. For them Boston=Harvard. On another note, it's scary how well known Boston University is among the under 30 crowd in India.

gmatclb · Answer

U of Chicago is the ultimate sleeper school. Especially with people that don't really know about business schools. The undergrad is even more sleeper school.

GMATT73 · Answer

With five uncles, three aunts and over 30 cousins, my family is quite large and spread out across the country. I recently told them about my MBA aspirations and my 82 year old maternal grandmother in Newberry Park, California responded, "so you are you going to Stanford or UCLA?" My aunt got her PhD at UCLA and my older cousin got his JD there. 

UW really doesn't show up on their radar screens. Heck, I might as well be attending CSUN or Pepperdine. 

Essentially, they see graduate school, regarless of the discipline, as either a stretch (Harvard, Stanford, Columbia and Penn) or a safety (UCLA, Berkeley or UM). That's right, a top 15 b-school is viewed upon as a "contingency option" and a top 30 school isn't much of an achievement at all.

haddy74 · Answer

It is sad but it is so true. U of Chicago has done a horrible job in marketing itself. I am almost convinced that if some one does not get into top 7 schools (M7), just focus on Yale. 8 to 15 are equal and Yale is a big name all over the world.

necromonger · Answer

Harvard, Oxford (In India) Maybe some people would have heard about Stanford. Yale has better recognition.

Wharton, Chicago, Columbia INSEAD, LBS, blah blah don't even ring a bell with most people I've known.

Almost everyone in India would have heard of IIM's and those who get into even top non-Indian schools end up spending time explaining if they did not want to/could not get into IIMs ;)

pelihu · Answer

From an international standpoint, Yale can (and does) trade on its name. Within the US, I believe that banks, consulting firms and other places that regularly deal with MBAs have a pretty good understand of the MBA landscape. Outside the US, perceptions can vary a great deal.

haddy74 · Answer

You are right but here is the question that I have. In your honest assessment, do you really think that outside M7+ Tuck schools, any other school would provide a significant leverage to a student in obtaining a regular post-MBA job (finance/industry/consulting) when compared to Yale SOM? And even if there is some leverage (Ross vs Yale for instance), don’t you think that the difference would be marginal? Please note that my comments are strictly perspective–oriented keeping in view that this whole thread is centered on evaluating brand equity of institutions. 

The point I am trying to make is that if someone is willing to spend 100K, what difference would it make if it is Yale instead of NYU/Duke/Darden/Cornell as far potential job hunt on the East Coast is concerned. Do you really think that NYU/Cornell would be much better than Yale for finance jobs or Duke would be a much better option for consulting than Yale? I do not think so. All top IB/MC recruit at these places to some extent and students at these schools would have to do a lot of legwork on their own to secure an interview/job anyway. But as far as brand equity (especially among masses) is concerned, Yale is next to Harvard, Oxford and Cambridge around the globe. Now if someone gets a full ride at any of these schools, then it is a totally different story and the whole dynamics of discussion would change. Getting a full scholarship itself is a huge achievement and one should simply go to that particular school as it would also enrich his/her resume significantly.

pelihu · Answer

My observation is that many of the people I have met and interacted with during the past year on the MBA trail feel that Yale is only in the elite mix because of their name. There's also a corollary sense that if Yale were actually on par with the other schools around them their name should carry them to the very top of the list (top 5 or something). This is supported by the fact Yale falls off the charts in many polls (19 in BW, 22 two years ago; in US News they are generally at the very bottom of the elites) but is still included as an elite. I believe the prevailing feeling is that the only qualification that Yale carries is its name - while other elite schools have earned their places through their quality. These are just my observations.

Among all elites and ultra-elites, Yale had the 2nd lowest salaries and employment rates at graduation, besting only UCLA (tough year last year for UCLA). Yale is also completely absent from the US News specialty rankings - except for Nonprofit where it is first. All of the other elites appear multiple times within the dozen available top tens - as they should as top 15 schools. Specialty rankings are based solely on rankings by peer schools, and it's clear that others in the know don't think highly of what Yale has to offer. Totally unscientific, I know.

I think Yale also suffers from a checkered past. I don't recall the timeline exactly, but they didn't even offer an "MBA" until recently. For some time, they offered a Masters of Management or something, but failed to gain traction with that degree. They then decided to offer a public interest non-profit focused MBA, and I believe that image has stuck with them. I didn't consider Yale seriously (because of location and other factors) so I don't have detailed recruiting data, but I never felt that it would be as easy to get a job from Yale as it would from Michigan, Duke, Haas or any of the other elites. I think Yale suffers from it's spotty past when it comes to recruiting, especially in the big feeder industries (some would say Columbia has the same problems among the ultra-elites).

If you want to impress your cab driver or bellman, go to Yale - the name is hard to beat. In almost any job function or region, other elites hold the edge. So, if you ask around, and ask people if they would trade their admit to an elite for a seat at Yale, I think you'll find very few takers. I think that ultimately, that is the bottom line. I have nothing against Yale, and I believe based on the name brand they do belong among the elites - but within this group I think they bring up the rear. Others around this board and others agree.

Hjort · Answer

I was somewhat vague in my original post in that I was talking about business schools in particular, but in some ways this discussion is more interesting that what I originally had in mind. Since I grew up in sunny CA I certainly knew of Stanford, UCLA, and UCB as generic insitutions but I had no sense of them having business schools (I don't think I would have reacted violently to the notion that they had business schools, but I had just never really heard of them). In contrast, I remember hearing the name "Harvard Business School" before junior high and the name "Wharton" not long after that. I think the name recognition for Harvard came from Harvard often being the generic name for a quality business education.

kwam · Answer

That's the point, in Brazil for instance the no biz people do not know the name Anderson, but everyone knows UCLA, same thing for Wharton and Upenn.

But as I said before, the big punch names that would impress your physician, mathematics and engineers friends (those outside the b-world) would be Harvard, Stanford, Oxford and Cambridge.

I know the strength that the name Yale has within US and other countries but honestly in Brazil, and I would even say South America, UChicago is much more well known. 

I agree in some extend with what Pelihu stated regarding the choices among elite schools, however, I also believe that even though Yale has not yet the same recognition they would never get into something without their brand quality. Oxford and Cambridge in UK suffer from the same "mistake" of getting into the b-school world too late, but I bet that 20 years from now these 3 names will definitely be among the best of the best. The thing is that I intend to graduate 3 years from now...

kidderek · Answer

LOL

Johnny, I think your personailty fits Stern perfectly.

Schools that impress the old folks:
Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Stanford.

School that should impress, but not on the list:
Princeton.

A Blatantly Unscientific Inquiry

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