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A certain club has 20 members. What is the ratio of the memb

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A certain club has 20 members. What is the ratio of the memb  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Mar 2009, 23:04
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A certain club has 20 members. What is the ratio of the member of 5-member committees that can be formed from the members of the club to the number of 4-member committees that can be formed from the members of the club?

A. 16 to 1
B. 15 to 1
C. 16 to 5
D. 15 to 6
E. 5 to 4
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Re: Permutaion + Combination  [#permalink]

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New post 24 Apr 2010, 10:05
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3
bakfed wrote:
brinng back an old post.

I somehow can't get 20C5/20C4 to be 16/5; I keep on getting 8/5

Also, for this question, why can't we just do the following:
(20*19*18*17*16)/(20*19*18*17) = 16/1?


\(\frac{C^5_{20}}{C^4_{20}}=\frac{20!}{15!*5!}*\frac{16!*4!}{20!}=\frac{16}{5}\)

Second question:

20*19*18*17*16 does not give you # of 5 member committees out of 20. You need to divide this by 5! to get rid of the repetitions (factorial correction). The same for 20*19*18*17, you should divide this by 4!.

Take another example: how many committees of 2 can be formed out of A, B and C?

AB
AC
BC
Only 3, which is \(C^2_3=3\).

But the way you are doing you'd get 3*2=6. This number has repetitions so we should divide it by 2! --> 6/2!=3.

Hope it's clear.
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Re: Permutaion + Combination  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Mar 2009, 23:17
1
1
C.
20C5/20C4 = 16/5
milind1979 wrote:
A certain club has 20 members. What is the ratio of the member of 5-member
committees that can be formed from the members of the club to the number of 4-member
committees that can be formed from the members of the club?
A. 16 to 1
B. 15 to 1
C. 16 to 5
D. 15 to 6
E. 5 to 4
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Re: Permutaion + Combination  [#permalink]

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New post 24 Apr 2010, 09:38
brinng back an old post.

I somehow can't get 20C5/20C4 to be 16/5; I keep on getting 8/5

Also, for this question, why can't we just do the following:
(20*19*18*17*16)/(20*19*18*17) = 16/1?
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Re: Permutaion + Combination  [#permalink]

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New post 24 Apr 2010, 09:47
1
bakfed wrote:
brinng back an old post.

I somehow can't get 20C5/20C4 to be 16/5; I keep on getting 8/5

Also, for this question, why can't we just do the following:
(20*19*18*17*16)/(20*19*18*17) = 16/1?


20C5 = FACT[20] / FACT[5]*FACT[15]
20C4 = FACT[20] / FACT[4]*FACT[16]

20C5 / 20C4 = 16/5
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Re: Permutaion + Combination  [#permalink]

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New post 24 Apr 2010, 10:11
bakfed wrote:
brinng back an old post.

Also, for this question, why can't we just do the following:
(20*19*18*17*16)/(20*19*18*17) = 16/1?


20*19*18*17*16 is giving all possible ways of selecting 5 people. It also includes the order of a particular selection into account. In this case it does not mater if you select a member first ,second or third as long as it is selected in the group. Therefore, the 20*19*18*17*16 number has repetition of the same group in 5 ways and you have to divide by FACT[5]. Similarly for (20*19*18*17) by FACT[4]
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Re: Permutaion + Combination  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Dec 2010, 15:46
I initially got this wrong, but see that this is just 20!/15!5! *16!4!/20! the 20! cancels out and you have 16!4!/15!5! which leaves 16/5.
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Re: Permutaion + Combination  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Aug 2013, 11:11
Bunuel wrote:
bakfed wrote:
brinng back an old post.

I somehow can't get 20C5/20C4 to be 16/5; I keep on getting 8/5

Also, for this question, why can't we just do the following:
(20*19*18*17*16)/(20*19*18*17) = 16/1?


\(\frac{C^5_{20}}{C^4_{20}}=\frac{20!}{15!*5!}*\frac{16!*4!}{20!}=\frac{16}{5}\)

Second question:

20*19*18*17*16 does not give you # of 5 member committees out of 20. You need to divide this by 5! to get rid of the repetitions (factorial correction). The same for 20*19*18*17, you should divide this by 4!.

Take another example: how many committees of 2 can be formed out of A, B and C?

AB
AC
BC
Only 3, which is \(C^2_3=3\).

But the way you are doing you'd get 3*2=6. This number has repetitions so we should divide it by 2! --> 6/2!=3.

Hope it's clear.


when should we use 20*19*18*17*16 way and when the second way?
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Re: Permutaion + Combination  [#permalink]

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New post 31 Aug 2013, 06:38
swati007 wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
bakfed wrote:
brinng back an old post.

I somehow can't get 20C5/20C4 to be 16/5; I keep on getting 8/5

Also, for this question, why can't we just do the following:
(20*19*18*17*16)/(20*19*18*17) = 16/1?


\(\frac{C^5_{20}}{C^4_{20}}=\frac{20!}{15!*5!}*\frac{16!*4!}{20!}=\frac{16}{5}\)

Second question:

20*19*18*17*16 does not give you # of 5 member committees out of 20. You need to divide this by 5! to get rid of the repetitions (factorial correction). The same for 20*19*18*17, you should divide this by 4!.

Take another example: how many committees of 2 can be formed out of A, B and C?

AB
AC
BC
Only 3, which is \(C^2_3=3\).

But the way you are doing you'd get 3*2=6. This number has repetitions so we should divide it by 2! --> 6/2!=3.

Hope it's clear.


when should we use 20*19*18*17*16 way and when the second way?


The first case is applicable when the order matters, when, for example, we have member #1, member #2, ...
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PS: 1. Tough and Tricky questions; 2. Hard questions; 3. Hard questions part 2; 4. Standard deviation; 5. Tough Problem Solving Questions With Solutions; 6. Probability and Combinations Questions With Solutions; 7 Tough and tricky exponents and roots questions; 8 12 Easy Pieces (or not?); 9 Bakers' Dozen; 10 Algebra set. ,11 Mixed Questions, 12 Fresh Meat

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Re: A certain club has 20 members. What is the ratio of the memb  [#permalink]

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New post 03 May 2015, 21:29
dont remember the formular, gmat dose not test.

to take 5
20*19*18*17*16/5!

Princeton review book is very exccelent at explanation of combination and counting. no book can compete Princeton book in this section. read it to master combination and counting. this section is only a few pages and can be learn in a few hours.

this explanation in the book is concise, deep and comprehensive.
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Re: A certain club has 20 members. What is the ratio of the memb  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jul 2015, 06:01
Isnt the Question doubtful?

They didnt mentioned that first we have to select 5 members then 4 from the remaining 15?
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Re: A certain club has 20 members. What is the ratio of the memb  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jul 2015, 06:08
honchos wrote:
Isnt the Question doubtful?

They didnt mentioned that first we have to select 5 members then 4 from the remaining 15?


That is exactly the reason why you need to treat "selecting 5 out of 20" and "selecting 4 out of 20" as 2 independent events. Per the question, there is no overlap in the 2 cases.

Thus the final answer = 20C5 / 20C4 = 16/5
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Re: A certain club has 20 members. What is the ratio of the memb  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jul 2015, 06:13
honchos wrote:
Isnt the Question doubtful?

They didnt mentioned that first we have to select 5 members then 4 from the remaining 15?


The question is absolutely clear and holds no ambiguity in the language

Question : A certain club has 20 members. What is the ratio of the member of 5-member committees that can be formed from the members of the club to the number of 4-member committees that can be formed from the members of the club?"


The two actions (making the committee of 5 members AND making the committee of 4 embers) are to be treated independently.

No. of Ways to make 5 member committee out of 20 members = 20C5 = 15504

No. of Ways to make 4 member committee out of 20 members = 20C4 = 4845

Required ratio = 15504 / 4845 = 16/5
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Re: A certain club has 20 members. What is the ratio of the memb  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jul 2015, 06:22
Engr2012 wrote:
honchos wrote:
Isnt the Question doubtful?

They didnt mentioned that first we have to select 5 members then 4 from the remaining 15?


That is exactly the reason why you need to treat "selecting 5 out of 20" and "selecting 4 out of 20" as 2 independent events. Per the question, there is no overlap in the 2 cases.

Thus the final answer = 20C5 / 20C4 = 16/5



Thanks, My doubt is still the same. They didn't mentioned that two events are mutually independent or dependent.
This is a very easy question, but I was spinned that how should I interpret the language - Mutually independent or independent.
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New post 27 Jul 2015, 06:25
Dependent events is a very big information and will thus always be mentioned if that is the case. If not given, you have to treat the 2 events independently. You are over analyzing the question. The language is perfectly fine.
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Re: A certain club has 20 members. What is the ratio of the memb  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jul 2015, 06:29
honchos wrote:
Engr2012 wrote:
honchos wrote:
Isnt the Question doubtful?

They didnt mentioned that first we have to select 5 members then 4 from the remaining 15?


That is exactly the reason why you need to treat "selecting 5 out of 20" and "selecting 4 out of 20" as 2 independent events. Per the question, there is no overlap in the 2 cases.

Thus the final answer = 20C5 / 20C4 = 16/5



Thanks, My doubt is still the same. They didn't mentioned that two events are mutually independent or dependent.
This is a very easy question, but I was spinned that how should I interpret the language - Mutually independent or independent.


The question did NOT mentioned that "Team of 4 has to be selected out of the REMAINING"

If the word "remaining" has not been used then it is Independent event case.

I hope it helps1
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New post 09 Feb 2016, 14:33
Hello guys,

Can I please ask how 20C5 / 20C4 has been solved to get the fraction 16/5?
I know that one way to solve this is by doing the long multiplication thing but Brunnel has calculated it in a simplified manner. Can someone please write down the steps?

Thanks,
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Re: A certain club has 20 members. What is the ratio of the memb  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Feb 2016, 01:41
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HarveyKlaus wrote:
Hello guys,

Can I please ask how 20C5 / 20C4 has been solved to get the fraction 16/5?
I know that one way to solve this is by doing the long multiplication thing but Brunnel has calculated it in a simplified manner. Can someone please write down the steps?

Thanks,


20C5 = 20!/[5! * 15!] = 20*19*18*17*16/5! = 19*3*17*16

20C4 = 20!/[4! * 16!] = 20*19*18*17/4! = 5*19*3*17

20C5 / 20C4 = 19*3*17*16 / 5*19*3*17 = 16/5

I hope this helps!!!
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Re: A certain club has 20 members. What is the ratio of the memb  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jun 2016, 08:41
5 member committee = 20C5
4 member committee = 20C4

Ratio = 20C5 / 20C4 = (20!/15!*5!) * (16!*4!/20!) = 16: 5

Correct option: C
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Re: A certain club has 20 members. What is the ratio of the memb  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Aug 2016, 07:25
Hi!

I misunderstood the question but to ensure I would like to check if under my understanding my reasoning made sense:

Understood the following:

What is the ratio of 5-member clubs that can be formed (every member in 1 club) to the ratio of 4 members (every member in 1 club) .

In this case, is it correct to state:

Amount of 5 member clubs:

20!/(5!*5!*5!*5!)

Amount of 4 member clubs:

20!/(4!*4!*4!*4!*4!)

Thanks!
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Re: A certain club has 20 members. What is the ratio of the memb   [#permalink] 09 Aug 2016, 07:25

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