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raj44 wrote:
But doesnt choice D have a pronoun problem? there's no noun for her/she to refer to , and also the noun that it intends to refer to appears in Apostrophe and pronoun cannot refer to a noun in an apostrophe?

This question has a historical significance in the annals of GMAT anthology :) .

For the first time in the available official sources, was it evident that GMAT is perfectly fine with a subject pronoun referring to a possessive noun.

It had been known for quite some time that GMAT was ok with an object pronoun referring to a possessive noun; however, most GMAT instructors continued to believe that GMAT would not be ok with a subject pronoun referring to a possessive noun.

This question proved otherwise and hence, continues to be a very cited question for this reason.
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

A, Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.
The correct idiom is CONSIDER X Y and not Consider X to be Y
B, Although Elizabeth Barrett Brwoning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success.
The correct idiom is CONSIDER X Y and not Consider X as Y
C, Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Brwoning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband.
Comparison error. Elizabeth Browning was overshadowed by her husband, not her poetry.
D, Although Elizabeth Barrett browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.
Correct
E, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his husband.
Comparison error. The poetry has to cosidered better than the poetry of the husband and the the husband himself

Key Takeaways:
Idiom is CONSIDER X Y
Always look out for comparison issues. Compare a person with a person only.
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Hello Everyone!

Let's tackle this question, one thing at a time, and narrow it down to the correct choice quickly! First, here is the original question with any major differences highlighted in orange:

Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

(A) Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.
(B) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success.
(C) Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband.
(D) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.
(E) Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his.

While there is a lot we could focus on, there are 2 main areas we can start with:

1. How Browning is compared to her husband (Idioms)
2. How Browning was overshadowed by her husband (Parallelism)


Let's start with #1 on our list: how the sentence compares Browning to her husband. This is an issue of idiom structure with comparisons. We need to make sure that each sentence follows the general rules of how to compare two items:

X is better than Y
X is considered Y
X is considered to be Y


Let's take a close look at each sentence and determine if each uses the proper idiom formats. If not, let's eliminate them:

(A) Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

considered...to be = OKAY
she was...better than her husband = OKAY

(B) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success.

considered...as = WRONG
Browning was...better than her husband = OKAY

(C) Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband.

considered...to be = OKAY
Browning's poetry had been...better than that of her husband = OKAY

(D) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.

she was considered... = OKAY
she was...the better poet = OKAY

(E) Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his.

considered...as = WRONG
Browning's poetry...better than her husband = OKAY

We can eliminate options B & E because they use one or both idioms incorrectly. Now that we have it narrowed down to 3 options, let's tackle #2 on our list. We need to make sure that the items being compared in each sentence are parallel!

(A) Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

This is INCORRECT because it's not idiomatically correct to say that Browning is "the better poet than" her husband. It's best to say she is "a better poet" than her husband, or just say that between the two of them, she is "the better poet."

(C) Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband.

This is INCORRECT because it contains a misleading modifier. Who/what was overshadowed by the husband's success? The wife! It doesn't make sense to compare the husband's success to the wife's poetry - that's not parallel. The sentence needs to clearly contrast the husband's success with the wife's success to be parallel.

(D) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.

This is CORRECT! It uses parallel structure to compare Browning's success to her husband's success, and it correctly handles the comparison of their abilities as poets by saying she is "the better poet."


There you have it - option D is the correct choice!


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I solved it based on comparison only + little Idiom
Can you see the problem in this (Comparison ) - Compare apple to apple not apple to oranges.

A, B, C - compare (EBB with his success)
D - a specific use of That of her should ring some bells
E - similar should give you a hint her success was overshadowed by his (Success). ~ E does omit success, not sure if its ok (but E was still close in comparison w.r.t A, B, C (hence out)

But E changes the meaning in first part (EBB's poetry was considered better than her husband).

(A) Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.
(B) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success.
(C) Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poety had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than her husband.
(D) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet. - Correct
(E) Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her comtemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his.
(EBB's poetry was considered better than her husband ) Poetry --compare--husband
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.


(A) Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.
Option A contains an error of comparisons
Elizabeth Browning is overshadowed by her husband’s success.
We can only compare similar items. We can compare one person’s success with that of another. But we cannot compare a person with another person’s success.
The verb “consider” should not be followed by prepositions- “as” or “to be”. Eliminate
Incorrect. Eliminate.

(B) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success.
Same as A. Eliminate

(C) Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband.
What was overshadowed by the success of her husband? Elizabeth’s poetry?
The verb “consider” should not be followed by prepositions- “as” or “to be”.
Incorrect. Eliminate.

(D) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.
Correct.

(E) Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his.
The verb “consider” should not be followed by prepositions- “as” or “to be”.
Option E incorrectly compares Elizabeth’s poetry with her husband.
Eliminate


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mbaprep2016 wrote:
Can anyone show me where in OG materials right idiom "consider X Y" or wrong "consider X as/to be Y" is mentioned? I have never seen such explanation or guide by GMAC for any question even this. Thank you!


1. Consider X to be Y
2. Consider X Y
3. Consider X as Y
These are all correct but in GMAT, use consider X Y. here are some examples:

Specific to GMAT:
RIGHT: considers X Y (e.g. I consider her a friend.)
SUSPECT: considers X to be Y (e.g. The judge considers the law to be unconstitutional.)
WRONG: considers X as Y. (e.g. The judge considers the law as (being)unconstitutional.)
This discussion may help you : https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/forums/idiom-consider-t2758.html

Consider X Y (no ‘to be’)
Correct: Most musicologists consider Joseph Haydn the father of the sonata.
Incorrect: Most musicologists consider Joseph Haydn to be the father of the sonata.
Incorrect: Most musicologists consider Joseph Haydn as the father of the sonata.
https://magoosh.com/gmat/2011/top-ten-most-common-gmat-idioms/

OG13: Please check the #Q119 with its explanation on page 763 in OG13. in this question GMAC says: "When consider means think of OR believe after careful deliberation, it does not require "as" or any other expression (to be) before that object. it says "most concise" form needs to be used.

Now look at this question https://gmatclub.com/forum/in-california-a-lack-of-genetic-variation-in-the-argentine-35018.html . In this questions every choice has used considered to be.

Till now i have always got a GMAT question correct if i preferred considered X Y over consider to be/as.
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Dear Friends,

Here is a detailed explanation to this question-
srikrishnans92 wrote:
Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.


(A) Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

(B) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success.

(C) Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband.

(D) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.

(E) Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his.




Meaning is crucial to solving this problem:
Understanding the intended meaning is key to solving this question; the intended meaning of this sentence is that Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, but among her contemporaries, she was considered the better poet.

Concepts tested here: Meaning + Modifiers + Idioms + Awkwardness/Redundancy

• "considered" does not require a conjunction or a helping word/phrase; “consider/considered” is always followed directly by the noun, and the similar word "regarded" must be followed by the conjunction "as"; correct usages: Jack is “considered a math genius” or Jack is “regarded as a math genius”.
• In a “phrase + comma + noun” construction, the phrase must correctly modify the noun; this is one of the most frequently tested concepts on GMAT sentence correction.
• "a + comparative adjective + A than B" is the correct idiomatic construction.
• When the chronology of events in the sentence is clear because of terms such as "before/after/when/earlier/later"…or because of clear mention of dates, use past perfect tense is not required, though not incorrect either.

A: This answer choice alters the meaning of the sentence through the clause "Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed"; the construction of this phrase illogically implies that Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by the success of her husband; the intended meaning is that Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was overshadowed by the success of her husband. Further, Option A incorrectly uses the unidiomatic construction "the + comparative adjective + A than B"; please remember, "a + comparative adjective + A than B" is the correct idiomatic construction. Additionally, Option A incorrectly uses the unidiomatic construction "considered...to be"; please remember, "considered" does not require conjunction or a helping word/phrase; “consider/considered” is always followed directly by the noun.

B: This answer choice alters the meaning of the sentence through the clause "she was later overshadowed by his success"; the construction of this phrase illogically implies that Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by the success of her husband; the intended meaning is that Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was overshadowed by the success of her husband. Further, Option B incorrectly uses the unidiomatic construction "considered...as"; please remember, "considered" does not require conjunction or a helping word/phrase; “consider/considered” is always followed directly by the noun.

C: This answer choice incorrectly uses "Later overshadowed by the success of her husband" to modify "Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry", illogically implying that Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was overshadowed by her husband's success; the intended meaning is that Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was overshadowed by her husband's success; please remember, in a “phrase + comma + noun” construction, the phrase must correctly modify the noun. Further, Option C incorrectly uses the unidiomatic construction "considered...to be"; please remember, "considered" does not require conjunction or a helping word/phrase; “consider/considered” is always followed directly by the noun. Additionally, Option C redundantly uses the past perfect tense verb "had been considered" alongside "Later"; please remember, when the chronology of events in the sentence is clear because of terms such as "before/after/when/earlier/later"…or because of clear mention of dates, use past perfect tense is not required, though not incorrect either. Besides, Option C uses the needlessly wordy clause "Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry had been considered...better than that of her husband", rendering it awkward and needlessly indirect.

D: Correct. This answer choice uses the clauses "Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband" and "she was considered the better poet", conveying the intended meaning - that Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by the success of her husband, but among her contemporaries, she was considered the better poet. Moreover, Option D avoids the modifier error seen in Option C, as it does not use the "phrase + comma + noun" construction. Further, Option D correctly uses the idiomatic construction "considered + noun ("the better poet")", not including any helping word/phrase or conjunction after "considered". Additionally, Option D avoids the other idiom error seen in Option A, as it uses the construction "the better poet" rather than the "the + comparative adjective + A than B" construction to compare Elizabeth Barrett Browning and her husband. Besides, Option D is free of any awkwardness or redundancy.

E: This answer choice alters the meaning of the sentence through the phrase "better than her husband"; the construction of this phrase illogically implies that Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered better than her husband; the intended meaning is that Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered better than her husband's poetry. Further, Option E incorrectly uses the unidiomatic construction "considered...as"; please remember, "considered" does not require conjunction or a helping word/phrase; “consider/considered” is always followed directly by the noun.

Hence, D is the best answer choice.

To understand the concept of "Phrase Comma Subject" and "Subject Comma Phrase" on GMAT, you may want to watch the following video (~1minute):



To understand the concept of "Considered" and "Regarded As", you may want to watch the following video (~1 minute):



All the best!
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Pronoun reference is a vexatious issue. There are worse cases in which one can find many suitors for the antecedence for a given pronoun. So it is not possible to convincingly dismiss pronoun ambiguity or antecedence that easily.

Even so, in the given case, there is not even an element of equivocation in the given question. Elizabeth is the only female antecedent in the prompt and the pronoun ‘she’ can only refer to that lady. In other words, this is the way GMAC wants us to avoid too much nuancing on pronoun reference.

One may note that all other choices are idiomatically unacceptable as per GMAT norms.

Originally posted by daagh on 21 Nov 2015, 06:52.
Last edited by daagh on 21 Dec 2019, 05:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Can anyone show me where in OG materials right idiom "consider X Y" or wrong "consider X as/to be Y" is mentioned? I have never seen such explanation or guide by GMAC for any question even this. Thank you!
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In terms of meaning and Idiom Consider XY aspects I agree that Choice D is the best option here.
But here "she" pronoun is referring to subject noun in possessive form.
Did Gmat relax its rules regarding possessive pronouns? Please explain :|

Please explain why B is not correct

also how D is correct.In D 'her' is referring to Elizabeth Barrett Browning’s success ,so how is it correct
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Nevernevergiveup wrote:

In terms of meaning and Idiom Consider XY aspects I agree that Choice D is the best option here.
But here "she" pronoun is referring to subject noun in possessive form.
Did Gmat relax its rules regarding possessive pronouns? Please explain :|


The sentence also uses "her" to refer to "Browning's". Since all she / her must refer to the same person in a sentence, it is clear that "she" refers to Elizabeth Barrett Browning.

I have not come across an official question in which a personal pronoun refers to a possessive noun directly (i.e. without a possessive pronoun to make the reference clear).
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Nevernevergiveup wrote:
Please explain why B is not correct

Hi Nevernevergiveup, this is where some knowledge on idioms can actually come in very handy. The correct idiom is considered and not considered as, as used in option B.

Quote:
also how D is correct.In D 'her' is referring to Elizabeth Barrett Browning’s success ,so how is it correct

Actually her (a possessive pronoun) is very perfectly referring to the possessive noun Elizabeth Barrett Browning’s.

However, more relevant question in this regard would be: How is a subject pronoun she referring to a possessive noun Elizabeth Barrett Browning’s? As this sentence depicts, this is allowed on GMAT as well! So, for the most part, the case of a pronoun (subject/object/possessive) is not something that should bother you, while analyzing an option.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses most important idioms, their application and examples in significant detail. If someone is interested, PM me your email-id; I can mail the corresponding section.
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

A, Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.
B, Although Elizabeth Barrett Brwoning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success.
C, Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Brwoning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband.
D, Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.
E, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his.

This is my 2 cents.
I think most people will manage to get down to B and D.
While solving this, I did not catch the correct idiom usage of "consider x y".
Instead, I focused on the meaning and chose D.

The problem with B is "...she was later overshadowed by his success". His success cannot overshadow a person.
In D, we see the correct meaning "Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by [success] of her husband..."
Hope this helps.

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Hi all,

I chose D after "consider X Y" split.

But I have question for choice D, what is the antecedent for pronoun "she", the possesive pronoun has antecendent "Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success"

Experts Please help
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Nevernevergiveup wrote:
Did Gmat relax its rules regarding possessive pronouns? Please explain :|


Yeah, the GMAT seems to have abandoned the rather uptight "possessive poison" rule. As long as the meaning is clear, we can use a regular pronoun to refer back to a possessive noun.
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hellosanthosh2k2 wrote:
Hi all,

I chose D after "consider X Y" split.

But I have question for choice D, what is the antecedent for pronoun "she", the possesive pronoun has antecendent "Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success"

Experts Please help




Hello hellosanthosh2k2,


Yes, you are correct in saying that she in the correct answer choice does not seem to have a grammatical antecedent because this non-possessive pronoun seems to refer to the possessive noun Elizabeth Barrett Browning's.

However, I would treat this one as an atypical usage of a non-possessive pronoun. I would take this usage as an exception rather than the rule. I would still look for a non-possessive noun as a grammatical antecedent of a non-possessive pronoun.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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srikrishnans92 wrote:
Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.


(A) Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

(B) Although Elizabeth Barrett Brwoning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success.

(C) Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Brwoning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband.

(D) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.

(E) Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his.


The pronoun rule that is stated in MGMAT forum (https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... tml#p46683) is
* POSSESSIVE NOUN with NON-POSSESSIVE PRONOUN is NOT OK.
BUT
ALL OTHER COMBINATIONS are ok.

1. Jose's room is so clean that his mother praises him
"His" can refer to "Jose's" because they both are possessives
"Him" is a problem because an object pronoun CANNOT refer to a possessive.

2. Jose keeps him room so clean that his mother praises him.
- Both possessive and object pronoun(his and him) can refer to a subject noun.

Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success. -- But how does the subject pronoun She refer to possessive noun 'Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success'?

Pronoun rules that I can remember-
1. A pronoun can stand ONLY for a noun or another pronoun.- Number(singular/plural) of the noun makes sense with number of the pronoun
2. Pronoun ambiguity is not tested on GMAT.

"so here's the simplest way of making the decision: (From Thursdays with Ron)

1) if you see an AMBIGUOUS PRONOUN that is REPLACED BY THE CORRECT NOUN in OTHER ANSWER CHOICES, then ELIMINATE the ambiguous pronoun and keep the specific noun.
for an example, see problem 68 in the blue verbal supplement, in which ""them"" is split against ""these companies"".

HOWEVER,
2) if you see an ambiguous pronoun that is NOT replaced by the correct noun in any of the other answer choices, then DON'T eliminate!
for an example, see problem 21 in the blue verbal supplement (in which the correct answer contains a technically ambiguous pronoun).
or see the problem in this thread!

4.also:
in general, OBJECTS OF PREPOSITIONS are very rarely the antecedents of pronouns. (i won't say never -- but rarely enough that, if you have to make a random guess, this is probably a pretty good standard by which to make such a guess.)
for instance:
if you have ""the cat in the box"", then it is very unlikely that a pronoun will be able to stand for ""box""."


AjiteshArun , GMATNinja , MagooshExpert , GMATGuruNY , VeritasKarishma , DmitryFarber , ChiranjeevSingh , RonPurewal , VeritasPrepBrian , other experts -please enlighten
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