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655-705 Level|   Comparisons|   Idioms/Diction/Redundancy|   Parallelism|   Pronouns|                           
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 15 Jun 2022, 15:56
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You mentioned in one of your videos (about Pronouns) that it is a GMAT rule that the pronoun can never refer back to possessive ('s). For example - Amber's husband eats so much that she calls him a pig. Here, 'she' can't refer back to 'Amber' as per this rule and 'she' doesn't have an antecedent.
Isn't this rule getting broken here?
TIA!
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Yep -- we've updated our understanding of how the GMAT treats a possessive pronoun referring to a non-possessive antecedent. It's allowed, so long as the construction is clear and logical.

See here for more on that.
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 30 Jun 2022, 12:53
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Hi Ashish,

I must tell you that you have the finest explanation for any question. That is why I look for your response all the time!

Just a general query here on comparison:

in choice D] we say '' among her contemporaries, she was the better poet.

We did not really say, ''better than her husband''.

Again, is this one-off question where we letting go the transparency of the comparison. And had it been a normal OG question, we should have looked into this aspect?
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 01 Jul 2022, 05:52
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Hi Ashish,

I must tell you that you have the finest explanation for any question. That is why I look for your response all the time!

Just a general query here on comparison:

in choice D] we say '' among her contemporaries, she was the better poet.

We did not really say, ''better than her husband''.

Again, is this one-off question where we letting go the transparency of the comparison. And had it been a normal OG question, we should have looked into this aspect?
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Hello himanshu0123,

We hope this finds you well.

To provide a bit of clarity here, given the context of the preceding clause, the noun phrase "the better poet", in fact, conveys the intended comparison between "Elizabeth Barrett" and "her husband" in a perfectly acceptable manner; there is no grammatical error to consider in this construction.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 02 Jul 2022, 05:43
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Hello Sir!

A minor thing on the correct choice. It mentions ''among her contemporaries the better poet'' whereas in the intended meaning from the original sentence is ''better poet than her husband'' and not among her contemporaries.

Please help me understand.
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 02 Jul 2022, 20:05
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It mentions ''among her contemporaries the better poet'' whereas in the intended meaning from the original sentence is ''better poet than her husband'' and not among her contemporaries.
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Hi himanshu0123,

My reply is not specific to this question, but although different instructors have different opinions on this, I would strongly urge you not to look at option A as being special in any way.
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 03 Jul 2022, 05:21
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himanshu0123
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Hello Sir!

A minor thing on the correct choice. It mentions ''among her contemporaries the better poet'' whereas in the intended meaning from the original sentence is ''better poet than her husband'' and not among her contemporaries.

Please help me understand.
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Hello himanshu0123,

We hope this finds you well.

To clarify, in both "she was considered among her contemporaries" and "among her contemporaries she was considered", "among her contemporaries" is an adverbial phrase that modifies the verb "considered" to imply that Elizabeth Barrett Browning's contemporaries considered her a better poet than her husband.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 11 Jul 2022, 06:18
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.


(A) Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success. - Structurally it connects two independent clauses with a subordinating conjunction (although). Further it fails to nail the meaning. despite being considered the better poet, later? she was overshadowed? It should be the other way around. Although she was overshadowed she was the better one. The contrast is strong this way. I'll look for a better one.

(B) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success. - This is a tad bit better in terms of awkwardness in comparison to A as it mentions very clearly at the start that Elizabeth is the subject. Although Elizabeth was considered a better poet, she was later overshadowed. Same point of subordinating conjunction for independent clauses and the meaning.

(C) Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband. - WOW! Later overshadowed - who? Elizabeth's poetry. Nope.

(D) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet. - Ahah! Although he success was overshadowed, she was the better one!

(E) Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his. - WOW again! Her poetry was better than her husband? poetry vs husband? Harsh.
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 03 Nov 2022, 02:30
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[quote="srikrishnans92"]Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.


(A) Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

(B) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success.

(C) Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband.

(D) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.

(E) Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his.


Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.
In option D what does 'that' refers to?
Success or Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success?


I eliminated D because I thought because "Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success" is the subject of the the sentence, 'that' must refer to it.

And saying that "Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by 'Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success' of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet." feels awkward in itself.
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 03 Nov 2022, 02:59
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Vasu49

Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.
In option D what does 'that' refers to?
Success or Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success?
Show more
that/those, when used as demonstrative pronouns (as is the case here) do have a bit of flexibility in this regard; that/those do not have to refer to the entire phrase and can refer to a part of it, depending on what makes sense.

So, that would refer to success only.
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 03 Nov 2022, 03:37
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Hey Vasu49

Happy to help you with this.


What your referring to applies largely to the pronoun 'it'. Pronouns such as 'that' and 'those' have the utility of being followed by possessive phrases such as "of her husband". This is why, this confusion does not arise in choice D. Allow me to elaborate:

D: Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.

Ideally, this sentence should have been written as:

Although the success of Elizabeth Barrett Browning was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.

Notice how "of her husband" describes "that", just as "of Elizabeth Barrett Browning" describes "success". This is why "that" replaces "success" alone and not "the success of Elizabeth Barrett Browning".


Now, yes, choice D is slightly non-parallel when it uses the phrase "Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success", but we need to understand that the pronoun "that" still refers only to "success" by virtue of the succeeding phrase "of her husband", and that the GMAT often throws such challenges at us. Choice D is still the best of the given choice despite this oddity and despite the fact that 'she' refers to a possessive adjective "Elizabeth Barrett Browning's".


I hope this helps improve your understanding.


Happy Learning!


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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 03 Nov 2022, 04:06
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.


(A) Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

(B) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success.

(C) Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband.

(D) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.

(E) Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his.


Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.
In option D what does 'that' refers to?
Success or Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success?


I eliminated D because I thought because "Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success" is the subject of the the sentence, 'that' must refer to it.

And saying that "Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by 'Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success' of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet." feels awkward in itself.
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Hello Vasu49,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, "that" refers just to "success"; the pronouns “that” and "those" are used to refer to a variation of the subject, and the pronouns “it” and "they" are used to refer to the exact same subject.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 03 Nov 2022, 05:26
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Vasu49

Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.
In option D what does 'that' refers to?
Success or Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success?
that/those, when used as demonstrative pronouns (as is the case here) do have a bit of flexibility in this regard; that/those do not have to refer to the entire phrase and can refer to a part of it, depending on what makes sense.

So, that would refer to success only.
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Thanks a lot.

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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 03 Nov 2022, 05:26
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Hey Vasu49

Happy to help you with this.


What your referring to applies largely to the pronoun 'it'. Pronouns such as 'that' and 'those' have the utility of being followed by possessive phrases such as "of her husband". This is why, this confusion does not arise in choice D. Allow me to elaborate:

D: Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.

Ideally, this sentence should have been written as:

Although the success of Elizabeth Barrett Browning was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.

Notice how "of her husband" describes "that", just as "of Elizabeth Barrett Browning" describes "success". This is why "that" replaces "success" alone and not "the success of Elizabeth Barrett Browning".


Now, yes, choice D is slightly non-parallel when it uses the phrase "Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success", but we need to understand that the pronoun "that" still refers only to "success" by virtue of the succeeding phrase "of her husband", and that the GMAT often throws such challenges at us. Choice D is still the best of the given choice despite this oddity and despite the fact that 'she' refers to a possessive adjective "Elizabeth Barrett Browning's".


I hope this helps improve your understanding.


Happy Learning!


Abhishek
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Thanks Abhishek. Now it’s clear.

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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 03 Nov 2022, 05:28
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Vasu49
srikrishnans92
Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.


(A) Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

(B) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success.

(C) Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband.

(D) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.

(E) Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his.


Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.
In option D what does 'that' refers to?
Success or Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success?


I eliminated D because I thought because "Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success" is the subject of the the sentence, 'that' must refer to it.

And saying that "Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by 'Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success' of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet." feels awkward in itself.

Hello Vasu49,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, "that" refers just to "success"; the pronouns “that” and "those" are used to refer to a variation of the subject, and the pronouns “it” and "they" are used to refer to the exact same subject.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
Experts' Global Team
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Got it. Thanks a lot.

Posted from my mobile device
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 03 Nov 2022, 15:52
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AnthonyRitz DmitryFarber AjiteshArun GMATNinja egmat EducationAisle for (B) - people are eliminating (B) because of the purple bit

Quote:

(B) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success.
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Question - For the purple - why are we so hell bent upon pairing : Elizabeth Barrett Browning with her husband OR success with success. ?

There is no comparison marker in the purple font

Normally i care about perfect pairings IF there is a comparison marker

The word "By" instead is there ("BY" is not a comparison marker)

Given "BY" is not a comparison marker, i should be allowed non-perfect pairs if the meaning of the sentence is accurate.

Let me give a simple example of what i mean by "non-perfect pairings" with an analogy :

Quote:

(Analogy to purple above) Nadal was inspired by Roger Federer's success
Show more

In a sentence like this -- I paired "Nadal" with "success"

Are we really saying, this analogous example -- we cannot pair Nadal with success ?

I believe a sentence like this, which pairs Nadal with success, makes perfect sense

Simirlarly i dont see anything wong in pairing : Elizabeth Barrett Browning with success.

Its possible for Elizabeth Barrett Browning to be over-shadowed by someone's success
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 04 Nov 2022, 06:21
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Hey jabhatta2

Happy to help you with this very interesting question. There are two important learnings from this question, one of which is the answer to the question you've asked. I'm going to take the liberty to explain both points. I hope you benefit from this explanation. Here goes:

The answer to your question lies in advanced meaning analysis. Start by asking yourself what exactly does the author seek to convey?

Let's take a look:

OS: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

Let's try to make sense of the constituent ideas:

    a. Elizabeth was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband.
    b. Elizabeth was later overshadowed by her husband's success.
    c. The author also seeks to establish a contrast between the two ideas.


Probing Questions:

    1. Whenever dealing with a contrast, ask yourself which of the two ideas is the subordinate idea and which is the main idea, LOGICALLY. In other words,
      a. Although Elizabeth was considered by her contemporaries the better poet, she was later overshadowed by her husband's success? or
      c. Although she was later overshadowed by her husband's success, she was considered by her contemporaries the better poet?
    Which of the above makes more sense?
    Notice that 'a' is illogical, because her later being overshadowed by her husband's success despite her contemporaries considering her the better poet makes no sense.
      1. She was considered by her contemporaries the better poet - is an absolute fact that applies to Elizabeth's and her contemporaries' lifetime.
      2. So, the word 'later' makes no sense here as it would refer to the period of time after Elizabeth's death.

    But 'b' is logical. Her being considered the better poet despite her later being overshadowed by her husband's success, makes logical sense.
      1. Elizabeth had greater success initially.
      2. Elizabeth was later overshadowed by her husband's success.
      3. But, her contemporaries continued to consider her the better poet.

    Hence, eliminate choices A, B, and E.

2. What is the topic of contrast?
The underlying topic of contrast is "who was the better poet?" In other words, who overshadowed whom? Or, who's success was greater?
In such a context, it would be illogical to say one person's success overshadowed the other person. Either one person overshadowed the other, or one person's success overshadowed the other's success. In this context, the word 'overshadowed' means "to make somebody/something seem less important, or successful than another". (Reference: Meaning 1 @ https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... ershadowed)


Hence, putting the two together, we realize that the original sentence has two gross meaning/logical errors, and choice D automatically becomes the best of the given choices.


I hope this explanation helps you understand the importance of meaning analysis, the difference between a main and a subordinate idea, and the significance of logical parallelism.

Happy Learning!

Abhishek
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better Updated on: 04 Nov 2022, 08:50
Originally posted by jabhatta2 on 04 Nov 2022, 08:41.
Last edited by jabhatta2 on 04 Nov 2022, 08:50, edited 1 time in total.
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egmat

2. What is the topic of contrast?
The underlying topic of contrast is "who was the better poet?" In other words, who overshadowed whom? Or, who's success was greater?
In such a context, it would be illogical to say one person's success overshadowed the other person. Either one person overshadowed the other, or one person's success overshadowed the other's success. In this context, the word 'overshadowed' means "to make somebody/something seem less important, or successful than another". (Reference: Meaning 1 @ https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... ershadowed)

Abhishek
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Hi egmat - Thank you for the response.
(On the yellow highlight) – lets say we get rid of the verb: overshadowed and instead use the verb: inspired

Could we then also NOT pair Elizabeth Barrett Browning with success?
OR
Do you think in this case -- Elizabeth Barrett Browning CAN BE PAIRED WITH success?

Quote:

Elizabeth Barrett Browning was inspired by Roger Federer's success
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In a sentence like this: Elizabeth Barrett Browning can surely be paired with success, right?
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 04 Nov 2022, 08:48
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egmat


    1. Whenever dealing with a contrast, ask yourself which of the two ideas is the subordinate idea and which is the main idea, LOGICALLY. In other words,
      a. Although Elizabeth was considered by her contemporaries the better poet, she was later overshadowed by her husband's success? or
      b. Although she was later overshadowed by her husband's success, she was considered by her contemporaries the better poet?

    Which of the above makes more sense?
    Notice that 'a' is illogical, because her later being overshadowed by her husband's success despite her contemporaries considering her the better poet makes no sense.
      1. She was considered by her contemporaries the better poet - is an absolute fact that applies to Elizabeth's and her contemporaries' lifetime.
      2. So, the word 'later' makes no sense here as it would refer to the period of time after Elizabeth's death.

    But 'b' is logical. Her being considered the better poet despite her later being overshadowed by her husband's success, makes logical sense.
      1. Elizabeth had greater success initially.
      2. Elizabeth was later overshadowed by her husband's success.
      3. But, her contemporaries continued to consider her the better poet.

    Hence, eliminate choices A, B, and E.

Show more

egmat - RonPurewal

I have read the above multiple times but i am not able to differentiate between (a) and (b) [specifically marked in blue font above] -- both sentences are essentially the same

Let me try with a simpler analogy

In my screenshot - i dont see any difference between the two sentences.

Is (b) really different than (a) ? in my simpler analogies
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 06 Nov 2022, 22:51
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Quote:

Elizabeth Barrett Browning was inspired by Roger Federer's success
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In a sentence like this: Elizabeth Barrett Browning can surely be paired with success, right?[/quote]


Hey jabhatta2

Sure you can. No issues at all. As long as the pairing makes sense, there's no problem whatsoever.


Best,

Abhishek
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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better 06 Nov 2022, 23:04
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jabhatta2
egmat


    1. Whenever dealing with a contrast, ask yourself which of the two ideas is the subordinate idea and which is the main idea, LOGICALLY. In other words,
      a. Although Elizabeth was considered by her contemporaries the better poet, she was later overshadowed by her husband's success? or
      b. Although she was later overshadowed by her husband's success, she was considered by her contemporaries the better poet?

    Which of the above makes more sense?
    Notice that 'a' is illogical, because her later being overshadowed by her husband's success despite her contemporaries considering her the better poet makes no sense.
      1. She was considered by her contemporaries the better poet - is an absolute fact that applies to Elizabeth's and her contemporaries' lifetime.
      2. So, the word 'later' makes no sense here as it would refer to the period of time after Elizabeth's death.

    But 'b' is logical. Her being considered the better poet despite her later being overshadowed by her husband's success, makes logical sense.
      1. Elizabeth had greater success initially.
      2. Elizabeth was later overshadowed by her husband's success.
      3. But, her contemporaries continued to consider her the better poet.

    Hence, eliminate choices A, B, and E.


egmat - RonPurewal

I have read the above multiple times but i am not able to differentiate between (a) and (b) [specifically marked in blue font above] -- both sentences are essentially the same

Let me try with a simpler analogy

In my screenshot - i dont see any difference between the two sentences.

Is (b) really different than (a) ? in my simpler analogies
Show more


Hey jabhatta2

Your analogy says, "one's success was later overshadowed by another's success". However, the original question said "she was later overshadowed by her husband's success".

The success of individuals from two different eras can be compared. But, when you say "a person was overshadowed", it refers to the time the person was living. This is why your analogies work, while the original official sentence does not.

So, please read my previous examples again. I'm sure you'll get the point. Else, please revert.


Happy Learning!

Abhishek
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