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Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better

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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jul 2016, 23:26
I am bit worried If i am comparing anything wrong here..
I have gone through the thread and most of the things discussed around idiom and possessive pronoun.
I made to D by different reason. Please correct me if I am comparing anything wrong here
In every choice other than D , either we are comparing EBB with his success or Her husband with EBB's success. ONly D provides the correct comparison

A ) Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success. I think EBB's success is required
B) she was later overshadowed by his success. Same as A.
c) overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Brwoning's poetry... poetry is not overshadowed
D correct comaprision Although Elizabeth Barrett browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband
e) poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband Again same wrong comparision.

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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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New post 19 Aug 2016, 12:21
srikrishnans92 wrote:
Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.


A, Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.
B, Although Elizabeth Barrett Brwoning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success.
C, Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Brwoning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband.
D, Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.
E, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his.
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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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New post 21 Aug 2016, 08:21
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ngoctranphuong wrote:
Can anyone show me where in OG materials right idiom "consider X Y" or wrong "consider X as/to be Y" is mentioned? I have never seen such explanation or guide by GMAC for any question even this. Thank you!


1. Consider X to be Y
2. Consider X Y
3. Consider X as Y
These are all correct but in GMAT, use consider X Y. here are some examples:

Specific to GMAT:
RIGHT: considers X Y (e.g. I consider her a friend.)
SUSPECT: considers X to be Y (e.g. The judge considers the law to be unconstitutional.)
WRONG: considers X as Y. (e.g. The judge considers the law as (being)unconstitutional.)
This discussion may help you : https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/forums/idiom-consider-t2758.html

Consider X Y (no ‘to be’)
Correct: Most musicologists consider Joseph Haydn the father of the sonata.
Incorrect: Most musicologists consider Joseph Haydn to be the father of the sonata.
Incorrect: Most musicologists consider Joseph Haydn as the father of the sonata.
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2011/top-ten-most-common-gmat-idioms/

OG13: Please check the #Q119 with its explanation on page 763 in OG13. in this question GMAC says: "When consider means think of OR believe after careful deliberation, it does not require "as" or any other expression (to be) before that object. it says "most concise" form needs to be used.

Now look at this question http://gmatclub.com/forum/in-california-a-lack-of-genetic-variation-in-the-argentine-35018.html . In this questions every choice has used considered to be.

Till now i have always got a GMAT question correct if i preferred considered X Y over consider to be/as.
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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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New post 28 Aug 2016, 05:00
Hi @dhagg,
Option D, Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning’s success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.
How is her refering Elizabeth here? the subject is EBB's success not EBB. Will you describe the rule regarding this?
Thanks in advance.

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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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NaeemHasan wrote:
Hi @dhagg,
Option D, Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning’s success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.
How is her refering Elizabeth here? the subject is EBB's success not EBB. Will you describe the rule regarding this?
Thanks in advance.


The rules that one may worth remembering are:
1. A possessive pronoun can refer to a subject, object or possessive noun.
2. A subject or object pronoun cannot refer to a possessive noun, because possessive noun is used as an adjective.

Priyanka went to school with her mother.... correct.
Priyanka's IQ is high,but she did not score high in the test..... wrong.

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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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New post 20 Sep 2016, 03:19
daagh wrote:
This is a simple test of idiom, ‘consider X Y’ first. Consider to be( A, C), consider as (B, E) are out. The survivor is D. Maybe, then you may think of wrong modification in C and wrong comparison in E.


Hi Mr. Daagh,

I understand that "consider as" is incorrect idiomatic usage and GMAT does not support "consider to be" as well, but I have a question just for the sake of my understanding about the option D (which is the correct one)

"better" among her contemporaries- I would use better when I am comparing two entities and here we are not sure whether "among her contemporaries" is referring to Elizabeth and her husband or to a bunch of poets.

Please clarify.

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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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New post 27 Dec 2016, 18:31
Nevernevergiveup wrote:

In terms of meaning and Idiom Consider XY aspects I agree that Choice D is the best option here.
But here "she" pronoun is referring to subject noun in possessive form.
Did Gmat relax its rules regarding possessive pronouns? Please explain :|


The sentence also uses "her" to refer to "Browning's". Since all she / her must refer to the same person in a sentence, it is clear that "she" refers to Elizabeth Barrett Browning.

I have not come across an official question in which a personal pronoun refers to a possessive noun directly (i.e. without a possessive pronoun to make the reference clear).

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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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KARISHMA315 wrote:
Please explain why B is not correct

Hi KARISHMA315, this is where some knowledge on idioms can actually come in very handy. The correct idiom is considered and not considered as, as used in option B.

Quote:
also how D is correct.In D 'her' is referring to Elizabeth Barrett Browning’s success ,so how is it correct

Actually her (a possessive pronoun) is very perfectly referring to the possessive noun Elizabeth Barrett Browning’s.

However, more relevant question in this regard would be: How is a subject pronoun she referring to a possessive noun Elizabeth Barrett Browning’s? As this sentence depicts, this is allowed on GMAT as well! So, for the most part, the case of a pronoun (subject/object/possessive) is not something that should bother you, while analyzing an option.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses most important idioms, their application and examples in significant detail. If someone is interested, PM me your email-id; I can mail the corresponding section.
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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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guialain wrote:
D looks a bit wierd to me.

".... She was considered the better poet."

the Better???

''......a better peot'' sounds better.
or "....the best poet"


She was considered the better poet-- correct As she was compared with her husband; when two entities are used, we need to use the comparative degree.

He is more intelligent than John.-- correct (he and John are compared)

He is the most intelligent student in the class. -- correct (he is compared with many students)


There is another issue with the incorrect choices.
Consider X Y is correct usage.

Consider X as Y -- incorrect

Consider X to be Y -- incorrect


He considers you a brilliant student -- correct
He considers you as a brilliant student --incorrect
He considers you to be a brilliant student --incorrect


Only correct choice correctly use "consider". Hope it helps..

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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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Merged topics. Please, search questions before posting them!
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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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New post 18 Apr 2017, 16:38
Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

A, Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.
B, Although Elizabeth Barrett Brwoning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success.
C, Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Brwoning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband.
D, Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.
E, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his.

This is my 2 cents.
I think most people will manage to get down to B and D.
While solving this, I did not catch the correct idiom usage of "consider x y".
Instead, I focused on the meaning and chose D.

The problem with B is "...she was later overshadowed by his success". His success cannot overshadow a person.
In D, we see the correct meaning "Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by [success] of her husband..."
Hope this helps.

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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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New post 01 May 2017, 11:49
Ashishmathew01081987 wrote:
srikrishnans92 wrote:
Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

A, Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.
B, Although Elizabeth Barrett Brwoning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success.
C, Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Brwoning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband.
D, Although Elizabeth Barrett browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.
E, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his husband.



D, Although Elizabeth Barrett browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.

What does the pronoun "HER" refer to?? "HER" cannot refer to possessive "Elizabeth Barrett browning's success"

But as per MGMAT SC Guide, it is clearly mentioned that GMAT will steer away from having this issue the "make or beak" for any question.
So, maybe this is the fact being tested in the above question.

A - is out for modifier issues.
B, C, & E - are out for idiom "Consider X,Y" v/s "Consider X as Y" issue. (Consider X, Y - correct idiom)

So, that leaves us with D as the only answer.
But it's still debatable.



I under the idion part of X to be Y is wrong. But there also seems to be a pretty fundamental issue with D also. EBB's success cannot be what "her" is referring to according to numerous other questions (or rather it can be misinterpreted). I mean for instance, the answer choice C in the OG also says that EBB's poetry and her husband will be incorrectly compared. So did we ever get an answer why this is ok in this case?

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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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New post 02 May 2017, 05:31
Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

A) Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success. better poet than her husband WAS
B) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success. same issue as "A" -- better than her husband WAS
C) Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband. implies that poetry itself was overshadowed by a person. illogical
D) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet. "that of her husband" clearly refers to "success"
E) Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his. how can poetry be better than a person? illogical (same as C)

My .02 on the question. Kudos if helpful :)

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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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New post 02 May 2017, 05:36
LakerFan24 wrote:
Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

A) Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success. better poet than her husband WAS
B) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success. same issue as "A" -- better than her husband WAS
C) Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband. implies that poetry itself was overshadowed by a person. illogical
D) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet. "that of her husband" clearly refers to "success"
E) Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his. how can poetry be better than a person? illogical (same as C)

My .02 on the question. Kudos if helpful :)



Thanks. But I'm still not seeing the difference between c, where you are saying that EBB's Poetry is overshadowed by a person (when it says "than that of her husband"), and thus is wrong (which I agree with), but then in D the same issue appears.

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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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New post 02 May 2017, 05:49
brandon7 wrote:
LakerFan24 wrote:
Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

A) Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success. better poet than her husband WAS
B) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success. same issue as "A" -- better than her husband WAS
C) Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband. implies that poetry itself was overshadowed by a person. illogical
D) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet. "that of her husband" clearly refers to "success"
E) Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his. how can poetry be better than a person? illogical (same as C)

My .02 on the question. Kudos if helpful :)



Thanks. But I'm still not seeing the difference between c, where you are saying that EBB's Poetry is overshadowed by a person (when it says "than that of her husband"), and thus is wrong (which I agree with), but then in D the same issue appears.



C: You seem to understand the main issue here, which is "overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry". This here seems to imply that poetry can overshadow a person -- but how is this logical? Understand that "overshadowed by the success of her husband," = MODIFIER. It modifies the subject that comes next, which here is "EBB's poetry". Therefore, there is an issue with comparison, there needs to be 2 similar things to be compared. "Poetry" and "husband" are obviously not similar, so we can't compare them.

D: "Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband" -- this properly compares EBB's success to THAT (success) of her husband. You are able to compare the success of 2 people. "that" here is used as a pronoun, and it essentially takes the place of "success".

Make sense?

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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jun 2017, 14:55
Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

(A) Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success. - the last part of the sentence in a way compares Elizabeth with success (of her husband), therefore INCORRECT + "Elizabeth" should come right after comma to make sense of the pronouns used in the first part of the sentence
(B) Although Elizabeth Barrett Brwoning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success. - "she" cannot be overshadowed by "his success", rather her success can be overshadowed by his success
(C) Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Brwoning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband. - who is "her" referring to
(D) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet. - CORRECT, clear comparson between Elizabeth success with that (success) of her husband
(E) Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his. - "Elizabeth poetry" cannot be better than "her husband", instead it should compare "Elizabeth poetry" vs "her husband poetry"
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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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New post 24 Jun 2017, 23:34
Hello All,

My doubt in this one is :
Is it allowed to use "a personal pronoun" (she - in this case) to refer to "a possessive noun" (Elizabeth's Success) ?

As per most of the courses following two rules are used for a pronoun :
1. the antecedent cannot be in the possessive form. and
2. a noun in the possessive can be the antecedent of a possessive pronoun

So how's this one true ...
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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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New post 10 Sep 2017, 23:44
daagh wrote:
This is a simple test of idiom, ‘consider X Y’ first. Consider to be( A, C), consider as (B, E) are out. The survivor is D. Maybe, then you may think of wrong modification in C and wrong comparison in E.


Hi Daagh, consider X to be Y is a correct idiom as introduced in OG 2017. Below is the example. I have a query with the current problem in options A & D. Is it true The article "the" is incorrect because when comparing two objects, we use "a" rather than "the". So, based on that can we eliminate option A. Also, is the place of later wrongly placed in option A.
later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success. Should the sentence be Elizabeth Barrett Browning was later overshadowed by his success.

Example of consider X to be Y in OG 2017-
In California, a lack of genetic variation in the Argentine ant has allowed the species to spread widely; due to their being so genetically similar to one another, the ants consider all their fellows to be a close relative and thus do not engage in the kind of fierce intercolony struggles that limits the spread of this species in its native Argentina.

(A) due to their being so genetically similar to one another, the ants consider all their fellows to be a close relative and thus do not engage in the kind of fierce intercolony struggles that limits

(B) due to its being so genetically similar the ant considers all its fellows to be a close relative and thus does not engage in the kind of fierce intercolony struggles that limit

(C) because it is so genetically similar, the ant considers all its fellows to be a close relative and thus does not engage in the kind of fierce intercolony struggles that limits

(D) because they are so genetically similar to one another, the ants consider all their fellows to be close relatives and thus do not engage in the kind of fierce intercolony struggles that limit

(E) because of being so genetically similar to one another, the ants consider all their fellows to be a close relative and thus do not engage in the kind of fierce intercolony struggles that limits

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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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New post 11 Sep 2017, 19:22
Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.


(A) Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.
- "considered ... to be" = UNIDIOMATIC.

(B) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success.
- "considered ... as" = UNIDIOMATIC.

(C) Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband.
- same as "A"

(D) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.
- correct as is

(E) Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his.
- same as "B"

not too bad of a problem at all; however, you need to drill the idiom: "Consider X, Y".
- any version of "consider ... to be" or "consider ... as" = INCORRECT


Kudos please if you find this helpful :)

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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better [#permalink]

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New post 11 Sep 2017, 20:21
srikrishnans92 wrote:
The Official Guide for GMAT Review 2017

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 805
Page: 710

Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

(A) Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better poet than her husband, later Elizabeth Barrett Browning was overshadowed by his success.

(B) Although Elizabeth Barrett Brwoning was considered among her contemporaries as a better poet than her husband, she was later overshadowed by his success.

(C) Later overshadowed by the success of her husband, Elizabeth Barrett Brwoning's poetry had been considered among her contemporaries to be better than that of her husband.

(D) Although Elizabeth Barrett Browning's success was later overshadowed by that of her husband, among her contemporaries she was considered the better poet.

(E) Elizabeth Barrett Browning's poetry was considered among her contemporaries as better than her husband, but her success was later overshadowed by his.


The answer is D
Split 1

Considered X Y is the correct idiom
Considered X to be Y , considered X as Y are wrong.

Split2

It was the success of Elizabeth Barrett Browning that was overshadowed
_________________

We are more often frightened than hurt; and we suffer more from imagination than from reality

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Re: Although she was considered among her contemporaries to be the better   [#permalink] 11 Sep 2017, 20:21

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