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At Consolidated foundries, for a resolution to become

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Manager
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At Consolidated foundries, for a resolution to become [#permalink]

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New post 18 Jul 2009, 11:46
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C
D
E

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Hi guys,

i seem to be getting a good grip on Problem solving. but when it comes to data sufficiency i to lag behind.

one of the dilemmas i face is that i am not able assess if the statements are to be believed just as is or there is something more to it. lets me show you example:

Example 1: From Kaplan comprehensive program 2009, pg 302, q 18
Q1. At Consolidated foundries, for a resolution to become policy, a quorum of at least hanlf the 20 directors must pass the resolution by at least a two-thirds majority. At a meeting of the board of directors, did resolution X pass or fail?

(1) Ten directors voted for the resolution.
(2) Seven directors voted against the resolution

My answer was E . . . . but OA is B

its very easy to understand why the answers is B. But let me share how my mind interpreted it, which made me answer wrong!!

My solution: 2/3 of half of directors is > 2/3* 10 = 7 round off. Till here its fine. . . . now statement B says that 7 directors voted against resolution. . . but it does not talk of how many directors voted. May be only 7 voted and those 7 passed the resolution; but this does not meet with the condition that 10 should vote and 7 of them should pass the resolution . . .am i thinking too much!!!


Example 2: From Kaplan comprehensive program 2009, pg 313, q 47
Q2. At the beginning of last year, a car dealership had 150 cars in stock which the dealership had purchased for $20,000 each. During the same year, the dealership made only one purchase of cars. what is the total amount spent by the dealership on the cars it had in the end pf last year?

(1) Last year the dealership purchased 50 cars for $18,000 each.
(2) Last year the total revenue from the sale of cars was $180,000

My answer was A. . . OA is E

again its very easy to understand why the answers is B. But let me share how my mind interpreted it, which made me answer wrong!! as per OA explanation says there is no way to calculate how many cars sold.

My Solution: The dealership had opening stock of 150 cars @ $20000 each. as per statement 1, it bought 50 Cars @ $18,000 each. so we can simple add the value of old stock + new purchase and know the total values of stock at the end of year. . . where is it saying that dealership has to sell something in the year. it could probably not make any sale and be left with stock, value of which is easy to calculate.

[/b]


. . . guys! pls advise. . .am i insane in thinking so!!
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Re: DS interpretation problem! - Am i over thinking [#permalink]

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New post 18 Jul 2009, 12:35
You only need lots and lots of practice.

DS is something we haven't learnt in schools, so we have to learn to stay withing the limits of what has been "given".

In first question, you probably didn't know what a quorum means. For any meeting to be valid, the minimum number of members present makes a quorum. ie. if less than 10members were present, the meeting was not a valid one. Now any number between 10 and 20 inclusive could be there in the meeting. And the 2/3rd majority has to be with relation to "that" number ie, number of people present, which could be 10 or 15 or 18 or 20

In second one, i think its just about practice, You seem to have started now, and there is a long way to go. After lots n lots of practice, you will start getting the hang of such questions, and you will "learn" not to make assumptions, and also to consider possibilities (like sale of cars during the year) before jumping to conclusions. :)

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Re: DS interpretation problem! - Am i over thinking [#permalink]

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New post 19 Jul 2009, 00:00
My 5 cents:
In the second question I would initially go with A, using the same logic as you, but then statement 2 gives us a definite tip, that we should consider possible sales of cars as well, changing my answer to E. Sometimes statements in DS question can give us useful tips, as well as 5 possible solutions in PS questions can give a clue how to solve the problem.

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Re: DS interpretation problem! - Am i over thinking [#permalink]

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New post 19 Jul 2009, 04:36
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hey , i have this doubt
Quote:
what is the total amount spent by the dealership on the cars it had in the end pf last year?


its asking for the total amount spent by dealership , if he sells a car, how come he is spending on the sale ?

My question is rather , how did this piece of information push us towards 'E'
\(2) Last year the total revenue from the sale of cars was $180,000\)

what role has the total revenue from sale has anything to do with total amount spent by the dealership on the cars ?

Target760, i kind of understood the first question.

present : 10 15 20
#reqd to pass : 7 10 14
# max that can vote against : 3 5 6

So we can say from the above table that if all of the 20 were present for the meeting, 14 members have to vote for the bill to pass, or a maximum of 6 have to vote against..

given in second statement 7 voted AGAINST.
let us take 7 voted against in each case,

first case, if 7 voted against out of 10 that were present , that means 3 voted for , 3/10 < 2/3 - FAIL
second case if 7 voted against out of 15 present, that means 8 voted for 8/10 , 8/15 < 2/3 - FAIL
third case if 7 voted against out of 20 present , that means 13/20 voted for, 13/20 < 2/3 - FAIL

so we can conclude that no matter how many are present if 7 voted AGAINST then the bill wont pass. hence 'B' is sufficient.

I am equally frustrated with DS :) But I am gonna love it, one has to ,correct ?

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Re: DS interpretation problem! - Am i over thinking [#permalink]

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New post 19 Jul 2009, 06:32
skpMatcha wrote:
hey , i have this doubt
Quote:
what is the total amount spent by the dealership on the cars it had in the end pf last year?


its asking for the total amount spent by dealership , if he sells a car, how come he is spending on the sale ?

My question is rather , how did this piece of information push us towards 'E'
\(2) Last year the total revenue from the sale of cars was $180,000\)

what role has the total revenue from sale has anything to do with total amount spent by the dealership on the cars ?

Target760, i kind of understood the first question.

present : 10 15 20
#reqd to pass : 7 10 14
# max that can vote against : 3 5 6

So we can say from the above table that if all of the 20 were present for the meeting, 14 members have to vote for the bill to pass, or a maximum of 6 have to vote against..

given in second statement 7 voted AGAINST.
let us take 7 voted against in each case,

first case, if 7 voted against out of 10 that were present , that means 3 voted for , 3/10 < 2/3 - FAIL
second case if 7 voted against out of 15 present, that means 8 voted for 8/10 , 8/15 < 2/3 - FAIL
third case if 7 voted against out of 20 present , that means 13/20 voted for, 13/20 < 2/3 - FAIL

so we can conclude that no matter how many are present if 7 voted AGAINST then the bill wont pass. hence 'B' is sufficient.

I am equally frustrated with DS :) But I am gonna love it, one has to ,correct ?



tx for insight!. phew! i actually did't think that deep
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:arrow: CRITICAL REASONING FOR BEGINNERS: notes & links to help you learn CR better. Click Below
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:arrow: QUANT NOTES FOR PS & DS: notes to help you do better in Quant. Click Below
http://gmatclub.com/forum/quant-notes-for-ps-ds-82447.html
:arrow: GMAT Timing Planner: This little tool could help you plan timing strategy. Click Below
http://gmatclub.com/forum/gmat-cat-timing-planner-82513.html

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Re: DS interpretation problem! - Am i over thinking [#permalink]

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New post 28 Jul 2009, 14:02
Sunchaser20 wrote:
My 5 cents:
In the second question I would initially go with A, using the same logic as you, but then statement 2 gives us a definite tip, that we should consider possible sales of cars as well, changing my answer to E. Sometimes statements in DS question can give us useful tips, as well as 5 possible solutions in PS questions can give a clue how to solve the problem.


So you're basically saying that C is sufficient to tell you that the actual answer is E!

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Re: DS interpretation problem! - Am i over thinking [#permalink]

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New post 28 Jul 2009, 16:38
Should be E.

Q2. At the beginning of last year, a car dealership had 150 cars in stock which the dealership had purchased for $20,000 each. During the same year, the dealership made only one purchase of cars. what is the total amount spent by the dealership on the cars it had in the end pf last year?

(1) Last year the dealership purchased 50 cars for $18,000 each.
(2) Last year the total revenue from the sale of cars was $180,000

I think that the question is pretty clear.
Initially the dealership had 150 cars @ $20000 = 150 * 20,000
Dealer ship made one purchase = 1 * x = x
Total spent on puchase = (150 *20000) + (x) + (any other purchases)

Stm 1) 50 cars @ 18,000 purchased,
this will give us the total = (150*20000)+(x)+(50*18000)
Note that we still donot know x -> hence not sufficient.

Stm 2) Total rev = 180,000, we have no idea about how many more cars were bought or have any idea about getting the x value. Hence, not sufficient.

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Re: DS interpretation problem! - Am i over thinking   [#permalink] 28 Jul 2009, 16:38
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At Consolidated foundries, for a resolution to become

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