brainhurt
fugo
So I had a 3.1 in Actuarial Science too...
Thanks for the insight... it's good to know that someone in a similar situation was able to get in. I do have a pretty good story about the challenges I faced through school, and I did touch on them in the optional essay, but more from the perspective of why there was a gap in my schooling (serious car accident, blah blah blah). I didn't want to dwell on the academic record because (a) I didn't want to sound like I was making excuses, and (b) it was so long ago, and in the meantime I passed actuarial exams and scored a 780, so I hoped that the adcom would put more weight on the more recent events.
Clearly you're right though, I'm going to have to paint a more vivid picture of why I did poorly at times back then, and why it's a different situation now. It's tough in the application because you're so constrained for space, and you have to make a decision on what to emphasize, but I am fortunate that Yale gives feedback and the opportunity to plead my case as it were.
@ounce: in the WL letter it says you can request feedback, but it also encourages you to figure it out on your own (the whole self-awareness thing). When I met with Shelley Clifford, I asked about this and she told me to request feedback.
Got to say I agree with what others are saying here. To me the 780 with Q50 shows that you have the ability to do an MBA, no question. They must understand that too. So if the question's not ability, it must be something else, and I would guess that when they see a low GPA combined with a super-high GMAT it would set alarm bells ringing saying 'well, if this guy can get a 780 GMAT why can't he get a 3.5GPA' or whatever. As others have said, not necessarily fair, but they don't always have time or scope to be fair.
So my first question was going to be what is the real reason you got a GPA of 3.14? I know your subject was a tough one, and I'd respect that GPA regardless, but many would still probably assume you had potential to do more. To be honest, I think anyone who can get a 780 could do very well on most undergraduate courses. Having read your response to this question, I think perhaps you're being too modest about it and... pure speculation... perhaps you're not too keen to dig into a very personal issue and expose it in public? I would think that you would be able to benefit from being more explicit in your essays about why you got that GPA. I think having a tendency to play it down 'blah blah blah' is an admirable personal quality and shows that you're not looking to make excuses and recognise that you still have agency and the capacity to make choices even in exceptionally difficult situations. That marks you out, in my eyes, as someone I'd like to work with and who has the potential to make tough calls in future without passing blame. BUT, that's not going to make the adcom's position any easier. If they're going to admit you they're going to need to explain away that GPA to themselves and their colleagues as much as anything else, and they need you to help them in that process.
Again... this is all speculation and to be taken with the caveats that I don't know you and don't know any more about business school admissions than you (probably a fair amount less actually)... my feeling from reading your posts is roughly as follows. Don't be too modest and don't be too hard on yourself. Perhaps you think that you could still have done better in the situation you were in and so feel a bit guilty about making excuses? I'd suggest really reflecting on this again and perhaps being a bit easier on yourself about how difficult it was to go through whatever you went through and maintain focus on studies. Alternatively, if you look at it aagain and think you really would just be 'making excuses' then you just have to suck it up and focus instead on proving that you've changed and are now capable of showing the application, orgnisation and dedication to excel on a rigorous academic course. Only you will really know what's authentic and right for you. But don't forget that maybe 80-90% or more of people didn't have particularly difficult circumstances at undergrad and you're up against them. Don't put yourself at an unnecessary disadvantage out of modesty.
To add a bit of personal experience, my GPA (well, not exactly - I'm an international) dipped from 3.5ish to 3ish in my second year of undergrad before going back up to 3.5ish again. I think I can guess quite safely that my circumstances were far less extenuating than yours, but I still made sure to address it in my optional essay, cast it in as positive a light as possible and show that I'd learnt and grown from it. At the end of the day I know that there were reasons behind the dip that won't apply during my MBA, and that's the relevant point. From what you've said I expect you can say the same thing with I'm sure a great deal of certainty. And I feel like I'm a fairly modest guy too, so who knows what some of the more pushy applicants are saying. That's your peer-group, so don't put yourself at an unnecessary disadvantage. And maybe there are other areas where you can show things like dedication and commitment. Again, you'll probably know instinctively what's most compelling and authentic as a story.
All of which is, of course, not much help now that you've submitted all your essays but perhaps will give another perspective that can inform the way you look at from here on in. I'd agree with what others have said about the courses. Although I'm a bit sceptical about what doing another course at this point can really show, if I was in your position and really wanted it there's no way I'd do anything other than go along with the suggestion and pick the most impressive course I could find from the most impressive institution in the time available and do everything I could to absolutely ace it. Which is, it sounds like, what you are planning to do anyway. At the very least it will show your dedication specifically to Yale SOM very clearly, which I suspect they will like! It probably couldn't hurt either to pick something that could be useful to you in future regardless of whether or not you do an MBA and that you have a personal interest in - will help with motivation levels during what will, as you say, be a hectic period, and will also give a back up plan in the worst case scenario.
Anyway, good luck, that's just my 2 cents worth.
Edit: By the way, I think I should say that it sounds extremely positive the way the admissions people are engaging with you on this. Hundreds would love to be in that position and it's a good sign that they are seriously considering your candidacy I think. It's almost as though they've seen something they like and are asking you to help them to make the case that you're worthy of admission. Of course there are still no guarantees and it's a very competitive process regardless but I'd take heart if I were you.
21 Jan 2011, 11:06
