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nath99
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 10 Sep 2011, 09:17
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My recommender from previous job has asked me to write a draft for her which she will use as an input. As much as I hate doing this for her, she knows me well and can add lot of value to my application.

should I be writing a generic letter trying to answer questions 4 school I am applying to are looking for
OR
send her a list of 10 Questions and 10 answers that the schools are asking?

what do you guys think?

Thank you!
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 11 Sep 2011, 15:30
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nath99
My recommender from previous job has asked me to write a draft for her which she will use as an input. As much as I hate doing this for her, she knows me well and can add lot of value to my application.

should I be writing a generic letter trying to answer questions 4 school I am applying to are looking for
OR
send her a list of 10 Questions and 10 answers that the schools are asking?

what do you guys think?

Thank you!
Show more

If I remember correctly, HBS explicitly prohibits applicants from writing any part of their recommendations. It's ok to write out a handful of things you've done to help your boss remember specific details, and you can advise her about your overall positioning for the application, but I wouldn't do anything more than that.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 12 Sep 2011, 02:07
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What I did was to put together all the questions from all the schools in one document and for each question, gave her few inputs on what I have done. It was just an outline to educate her on my work. However I did not try to form sentences or write anything in her behalf. Also made it clear to her that she is free to pick whatever examples she wants to pick from the list I provided and also that she can add whatever she wants from her end.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 12 Sep 2011, 18:55
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Almost done with app!! Really I just need the LORs and I'm done. These are the second set of LORs I ask from these same people so I'm hoping they are used to the drill by now. Close to submitting!!!!
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 13 Sep 2011, 06:56
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AN ANALYSIS OF THIS PERSON'S STATS FROM OUR SERIES IN POETS AND QUANTS. [url]
https://poetsandquants.com/2011/09/08/br ... ol-screen/[/url]
SHE WROTE BACK TO SAY

Quote:
Thank you so much! Your analysis was weirdly accurate. I appreciate the feedback and the great advice. Thanks again!
Show more

MEANING OUR MACRO ADVICE ABOUT PIVOTING AWAY FR. LUXURY TO JUST RETAIL CONSULTING SEEMED TO STRIKE HOME. THAT IS ONE WAY CONSULTANTS CAN ACTUALLY HELP YOU, SO DONT GET SUPER CAUGHT UP IN WORD POLISHING OR JAMMING IN ONE MORE BRAG TO AN ESSAY, B SCHOOL ADMISSIONS, AS I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES, IS A BIG PICTURE PROCESS, NOT SOME GUY GOING OVER ESSAYS W. A TWEEZER AND MAGNIFYING GLASS. [ALTHO, SURE, WE DO THAT TOO, BUSINESS IS ABOUT OVER-DOING IT :-) ]Ms. Tiffany
760 GMAT
3.4 GPA
Undergraduate degree in finance and accounting from the University of Virginia McIntire School of Commerce
Study abroad program in Shanghai during third year
Three years as a consultant at Accenture
Extracurricular activities include being on the Board of Directors for a student-run UVA recruiting organization, an Alumni Trustee for McIntire, Junior League of Washington (non-profit women’s volunteer organization), various lead positions for groups within Accenture (Women’s Networking Group, Consultant Action Team)
Goal is to pursue a career change from management consulting to strategy and marketing for a luxury retail company
Odds of Success:

Wharton: 35% to 45%
Columbia: 35% to 50%
New York University: 50+%
Virginia: 50% to 70%
Duke: 50% to 70%

Sandy’s Analysis: Well, you already got a Tiffany GMAT score so your luxury marketing career can start with yourself. Lots to like, and this just reads like a hi-performing networking, clubby, clear story about a gal who went to UVA, stopped partying enough to major in Finance and Accounting, and got a gig at Accenture, which is solid.

Schools like Alum Trustees as well, for obvious reasons, including the high ‘satisfaction’ scores they give the school on BusinessWeek surveys. The 3.4 GPA is the small stain on this otherwise beautiful table set for two (you and the school) and the issue is, how glaring that will be amid all the candlelight and mood music.

Duke and UVA will go for this 3.4 and all, you are deeply their type, and 3.4 is kinda their average GPA.

Ditto NYU. Columbia may have trouble not staring at your 760, and since its average GPA is only 3.5, I’d say you got a real good shot there, too. Wharton has been known to ogle a 760 as well, and as noted, the rest of your story is attractive to any school. Trouble is, Wharton sees big numbers all the time, although so do I, and I still look. I was actually surprised—when I just looked it up—to note that the average GPA at Wharton is 3.5. That leaves us with the Accenture issue, a consulting firm, which places kids into all B-schools but just not as many kids as McKinsey, Bain, and BCG.

Makes this something of a coin toss there. A good deal may ride on how high-performing you are at Accenture in terms of getting great recommendations which say what an ace you are, how fast you got promoted or what stories you can come up about high-profile projects.

As to your stated goal of marketing for a luxury retail company, let me suggest that sounds like wanting to marry a great husband and move to Connecticut like Mad Men’s Betty Draper. Especially if none of your consulting work has been similar. Why not just say you want to transition into boutique consulting for retail companies or lead a retail department of a major consulting company? What do you think adding the word luxury is getting you? Stay with consulting and retail, and present yourself as excited by all kinds of retail, including electronics, yadda, yadda, yadda.There are lots of challenges for retail consultants finding a new audience and new “platforms,” something you cannot say about luxury retail marketing, unless you count platform shoes. Retail consulting has lots of data crunching (you hear that Wharton?). And hey, you have already been a consultant, and will not have a hard time getting a job. If you are sick of consulting, a vibe I am getting somehow, well, just hold your nose and say what I told you. You won’t be the first.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 14 Sep 2011, 01:49
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how soon before deadline is everyone thinking of submitting their app ?
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 14 Sep 2011, 06:27
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I'm gonna submit probably 24 hours prior.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 14 Sep 2011, 06:42
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I submitted mine a few weeks ago, just waiting on my recommendations now.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 14 Sep 2011, 10:16
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FROM RECENT WALL ST. JOURNAL ARTICLE
ABOUT APPS BEING DOWN IN GENERAL TO B SCHOOLS.

https://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... s_business

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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 14 Sep 2011, 10:19
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ATTEMPTED EXPLANATION OF ABOVE CHART from wiseguy cite called mogulite --1. KIDS SCARED TO LEAVE INVESTMENT BANKS. 2. INNOVATION SUCCESS DOES NOT REQUIRE MBA.


https://www.mogulite.com/business-school ... ions-down/
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 16 Sep 2011, 09:21
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https://poetsandquants.com/2011/09/16/handicapping-your-shot-at-getting-in/

THE LATEST INSTALLMENT OF THIS EVER-POPULAR SERIES, WHICH INCLUDES THIS AND FIVE OTHER ANALYSES.

Quote:
Ms. Riveter

760 GMAT
3.75 GPA
Undergraduate degree in international studies and political science from a public ivy with highest honors
Working in Asia for a U.S. aerospace company, first in sales support and for the last year and one-half in a marketing leadership role managing resellers
Extracurricular involvement includes alumni club leader, co-author of U.S. history scholarship “in un-famous periodicals with my uncle (yes, it’s a weird hobby)” and freelance researcher for the local national social science research center
25-year-old white American female
“Out of curiosity, when these schools ask applicants to provide salary data, (how) does the adcom use that information?”
Odds of Success:

Harvard Business School: 20% to 40%
Stanford: 10% to 20%
Wharton: 20% to 50%
Show more
Sandy’s Analysis: Kids like you get into H/S/W and get dinged depending on execution, extras and luck. HBS likes females in Aero and the Asian angle might help a little too, although Harvard might actually prefer someone working in a U.S. Aero plant, even in sales.

Still, you should stick with what you got. Aero is one part of manufacturing the U.S. has not totally given up on, and, well, someone has to sell it. Go lite on the managing resellers part, whatever that means, and make it seem like you are pals with Rosie the Riveter. For our readers who are under 40, that would be Rosie.

Despite having the basics of super solid grades, schooling and gmat, and job, you need to somehow make this more exciting: This could turn on family background and extras, and you are either light on extras or under-reporting in the above note.

As for “Coauthoring U.S. history scholarship in un-famous periodicals with my uncle,” make sure that is history about victims, under-served groups, Native Americans, and somehow work in how doing that research has shown you blah, blah, blah. “Freelance researcher for the local national social science research center . . . .”

I got no idea what that means, but same story: connect your experience there to the real world and if that real world includes victims, all the better. Working for a social science center could actually be promising, if you are doing research about poverty, disease or poor people.

You asked: “Out of curiosity, when these schools ask applicants to provide salary data, (how) does the adcom use that information?” Mostly nosiness, but they expect your salary to be at par with peers in your profession, especially in banking and consulting. They also expect to see salary increases in-line with star performance, although the actual number is less important. They obviously know that investment bankers make more than kids who work at Teach For America. In your case, they would expect to see normal salary increases over the three years.

Despite all you got going for you, I am not getting a good H or S vibe out of this, it could just be your report, and we don’t know what those solid extracurricular leadership experiences you refer to are. But something about this does not hang together in any interesting way. I could be wrong. Your job in putting together the application is to make it more interesting than your report. You will also need to manage your recommenders, especially if they are new to this game.

It could be that my real problem is that you do not present like an aero type, but that is your strong suit. Although that does not have to be your goal, you need to present your job as more exciting and impactful. It would help if you were a star at your company. HBS admits female sales types, but they are usually sales super-stars.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 16 Sep 2011, 12:55
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https://poetsandquants.com/2011/09/16/handicapping-your-shot-at-getting-in/

THE LATEST INSTALLMENT OF THIS EVER-POPULAR SERIES, WHICH INCLUDES THIS AND FIVE OTHER ANALYSES.

Quote:
Ms. Riveter

760 GMAT
3.75 GPA
Undergraduate degree in international studies and political science from a public ivy with highest honors
Working in Asia for a U.S. aerospace company, first in sales support and for the last year and one-half in a marketing leadership role managing resellers
Extracurricular involvement includes alumni club leader, co-author of U.S. history scholarship “in un-famous periodicals with my uncle (yes, it’s a weird hobby)” and freelance researcher for the local national social science research center
25-year-old white American female
“Out of curiosity, when these schools ask applicants to provide salary data, (how) does the adcom use that information?”
Odds of Success:

Harvard Business School: 20% to 40%
Stanford: 10% to 20%
Wharton: 20% to 50%
Sandy’s Analysis: Kids like you get into H/S/W and get dinged depending on execution, extras and luck. HBS likes females in Aero and the Asian angle might help a little too, although Harvard might actually prefer someone working in a U.S. Aero plant, even in sales.

Still, you should stick with what you got. Aero is one part of manufacturing the U.S. has not totally given up on, and, well, someone has to sell it. Go lite on the managing resellers part, whatever that means, and make it seem like you are pals with Rosie the Riveter. For our readers who are under 40, that would be Rosie.

Despite having the basics of super solid grades, schooling and gmat, and job, you need to somehow make this more exciting: This could turn on family background and extras, and you are either light on extras or under-reporting in the above note.

As for “Coauthoring U.S. history scholarship in un-famous periodicals with my uncle,” make sure that is history about victims, under-served groups, Native Americans, and somehow work in how doing that research has shown you blah, blah, blah. “Freelance researcher for the local national social science research center . . . .”

I got no idea what that means, but same story: connect your experience there to the real world and if that real world includes victims, all the better. Working for a social science center could actually be promising, if you are doing research about poverty, disease or poor people.

You asked: “Out of curiosity, when these schools ask applicants to provide salary data, (how) does the adcom use that information?” Mostly nosiness, but they expect your salary to be at par with peers in your profession, especially in banking and consulting. They also expect to see salary increases in-line with star performance, although the actual number is less important. They obviously know that investment bankers make more than kids who work at Teach For America. In your case, they would expect to see normal salary increases over the three years.

Despite all you got going for you, I am not getting a good H or S vibe out of this, it could just be your report, and we don’t know what those solid extracurricular leadership experiences you refer to are. But something about this does not hang together in any interesting way. I could be wrong. Your job in putting together the application is to make it more interesting than your report. You will also need to manage your recommenders, especially if they are new to this game.

It could be that my real problem is that you do not present like an aero type, but that is your strong suit. Although that does not have to be your goal, you need to present your job as more exciting and impactful. It would help if you were a star at your company. HBS admits female sales types, but they are usually sales super-stars.
Show more

Sandy, I LOVE all of your posts on B-school chances. They are absolutely amazing. However, I feel like you haven't really addressed foreigners who are not Asian/Indian. I'm not seeing South America, Africa, Europe...

This was my post:

Hey Sandy!

I am applying R1 to H/W and not sure about Stanford yet... also doing Chicago and UCLA.

I am 24/female/Brazilian. I work at a top 3 advertising global firm and manage the accounts of top multinational clients. I majored in Journalism, got a 116 on TOEFL and 710 (46q/42v/6.0awa) on the GMAT.
I have 3 years of full-time work experience at my company. I was also a competitive gymnast and work with gymnastics and coach poor Brazilian kids in the weekend. I haven't gone to Africa to save the world, but I'm very passionate about sport inclusion in my country.

As I progress in my job, I feel like due to my humanities major I really lack business knowledge to be a business leader in the future.

My main weakness is my quant. I did not take quant classes in college and my 46q on the GMAT wasn't quite on the 80%. It was on the mid 70's.

Sometimes I feel like I am a very interesting candidate because I'm 24, women, Brazilian, work with advertising. But, at the same time I feel like maybe I'm not good enough for HBS, for example. I mean, can my 710 GMAT compete with all the star 750+ ibankers and consultants with an engineering or economics major?

Please let me know if I have a genuine shot. Thanks.

Appreciate if you could give a personal input.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 16 Sep 2011, 13:42
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as to above post, well post on Poets and Quants !
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 16 Sep 2011, 13:47
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hbsguru
as to above post, well post on Poets and Quants !
Show more

Thanks for replying Sandy. There is nothing quite similar to your insight in the b-school online world, IMHO.

Do you mean I should post that profile on Poets and Quants or you will do that?

My Advertising firm is top 3 globally, probably closer to being top 1 than 3...
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 16 Sep 2011, 13:53
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Do you mean I should post that profile on Poets and Quants
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AND ANYONE ELSE WHO WANTS A PROFILE CHECK, SOONER OR LATER, WE GET AROUND TO THEM.

There is nothing quite similar to your insight in the b-school online world, IMHO.

THANKS
gmat700hope
hbsguru
as to above post, well post on Poets and Quants !

Thanks for replying Sandy. There is nothing quite similar to your insight in the b-school online world, IMHO.

Do you mean I should post that profile on Poets and Quants or you will do that?

My Advertising firm is top 3 globally, probably closer to being top 1 than 3...
Show more
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 16 Sep 2011, 13:57
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hbsguru
Do you mean I should post that profile on Poets and Quants
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AND ANYONE ELSE WHO WANTS A PROFILE CHECK, SOONER OR LATER, WE GET AROUND TO THEM.

There is nothing quite similar to your insight in the b-school online world, IMHO.

THANKS
gmat700hope
hbsguru
as to above post, well post on Poets and Quants !

Thanks for replying Sandy. There is nothing quite similar to your insight in the b-school online world, IMHO.

Do you mean I should post that profile on Poets and Quants or you will do that?

My Advertising firm is top 3 globally, probably closer to being top 1 than 3...
Show more

DONE
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 17 Sep 2011, 06:37
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In for R2
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 18 Sep 2011, 09:57
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Who gets into HBS 2+2?
profile of two recent admits fr. Oklahoma U.
fr. the student paper https://www.oudaily.com/news/2011/sep/16/ou-engineering-duo-accepted-harvard-business-schoo/
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 18 Sep 2011, 13:16
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Thanks for this thread.

Here's a question though, I'm 33 going 34, should I even bother applying to HBS only to be discriminated against? I should just give $250 to local charity, would do much more good.
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HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants 18 Sep 2011, 15:50
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guy22102
Thanks for this thread.

Here's a question though, I'm 33 going 34, should I even bother applying to HBS only to be discriminated against? I should just give $250 to local charity, would do much more good.
Show more

There's a 34 year old in my section, and I'm sure my class has at least a handful older than him. One of my former bosses got into Kellogg at age 35. It's possible. The only certainty is that if you don't apply, you won't get in.
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