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lonesoui
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! Updated on: 08 Jul 2011, 02:58
Originally posted by lonesoui on 11 Jun 2011, 17:22.
Last edited by lonesoui on 08 Jul 2011, 02:58, edited 1 time in total.
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I've decided to postpone it to 2013. I am by no means ready
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 11 Jun 2011, 18:45
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Honestly, from what I've gathered most adcoms and interviewers are clueless about anything military-related. I wouldn't worry about being judged for not deploying--just talk about the things you did in the assignments you ended up with. Plus if some civilian who's never served accuses you of being a deployment dodger, I think he's fair game to get open-hand slapped.

I wouldn't highlight your lack of deployments, but be ready to explain your situation if an interviewer asks if you've been to Iraq/Afghanistan/etc...i.e. I had a job, I did it as well as I could, I accomplished X and Y and Z, but we were a non-deployable unit and were too short-handed to allow people to deploy as individual augments. It shouldn't be too hard to get them to understand that the military is less than flexible when it comes to accommodating individual requests.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 11 Jun 2011, 21:03
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thanks emont. Man I'm so jealous of HBS, congrats by the way. I was born and raised in Boston, and Harvard anything was the epitome of prestige.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 12 Jun 2011, 07:03
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emont
Honestly, from what I've gathered most adcoms and interviewers are clueless about anything military-related. I wouldn't worry about being judged for not deploying--just talk about the things you did in the assignments you ended up with. Plus if some civilian who's never served accuses you of being a deployment dodger, I think he's fair game to get open-hand slapped.

I wouldn't highlight your lack of deployments, but be ready to explain your situation if an interviewer asks if you've been to Iraq/Afghanistan/etc...i.e. I had a job, I did it as well as I could, I accomplished X and Y and Z, but we were a non-deployable unit and were too short-handed to allow people to deploy as individual augments. It shouldn't be too hard to get them to understand that the military is less than flexible when it comes to accommodating individual requests.
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In talking to Vets groups at a few schools I am led to believe that deployments aren't really a big deal. If you visit some schools you'll meet a wide variety of Veterans that invariably includes some Navy and Coast Guard guys. Some of the Navy guys deployed, but not many.

I will throw my name in the hat for this upcoming admissions season as well.

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Trying to come up with a solid list of schools
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 14 Jun 2011, 19:37
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No, the Navy doesn't deploy, we just go on pleasure cruises!

Google "navy recruiting video spoof" if you want to see how we roll. I'd post a link but it won't let me.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 15 Jun 2011, 05:39
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Not much application stuff to talk about right now so it seems like a good time to spark some controversy/debate.

Driving to work this morning a noticed a Porsche to my right and immediately thought about that one consultant that created the Business School to Car analogies. HBS was a Bentley, Stanford a Lambo, Wharton a Mercedes...and so forth. I got to think about what might Business School to Military Branch analogies look like and this is kinda sorta what I came up with after a Starbucks Doubleshot...ordered by which analogies were easiest to come up with.

Marines: Rather small, tight-knit culture, and above all fiercely loyal. The Marines are Tuck. Considered making the Marines into Stanford, but Stanford puts out the touchy feely vibe. Also didn't see too many zeroed out haircuts in Palo Alto.

Air Force: The youngest of the services, but has established itself similar to the way one school vaulted from the mid-teens in the rankings to a perpetual Top 10 spot. This school did so while maintaining its laid back, but tech savvy culture. The Air Force is Haas.

Navy: Not getting as much press as the other services these days because of the nature of the current war, but still not to be trifled with on its own turf (water). A strong engineering background is a plus, the Navy is MIT Sloan.

Army: Really struggled with this one. I initially thought HBS just because of size, but the Army isn't HBS. The Army has to take a lot of people just to meet mission in a lot of those combat support/service support branches. So it's not HBS and certainly not Stanford. For that matter it's not Wharton or Booth either. You could make an argument for Kellogg since I hear Kellogg isn't academically rigorous. Kind of conflicted hear because I'm in the Army and the overall quality of the Army somewhat resembles an hourglass (albeit with the top being smaller than the bottom). You have a lot of high-end units like Delta, 160th SOAR, the SF Groups, Ranger Regiments, and other SMUs, but then you have the combat enablers, a weird mix of Reservists and National Guard folks of varying abilities. I personally like the Kellogg analogy, but I may be shooting too high. Perhaps a tri-brid of Ross, Fuqua, and Stern is more in order. Those schools have some high-end talent, but top to bottom there's a pretty significant standard deviation in the student bodies as well.

Coast Guard: I have no idea. I'll toss out Anderson at UCLA. They seem close to the water.

Israeli Defense Forces: Geographic position leads to some insecurity based on the fact that few of its neighbors acknowledge its right to exist and wouldn't mind exterminating it. Not above taking some aggressive initiative and making up a term out of thin air (M7 anyone?) and saying it belongs in the same club as HBS, Stanford, and Wharton, the IDF is Columbia.

Italy: Searching for a way to switch sides, but in a stylish way. I haven't gotten very far on this one. What do you guys think?

Add countries/services as you see fit.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 15 Jun 2011, 10:07
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Old for an old guy, but I feel I am still immature enough to hang with the younger kids.

Technique: I think Harvard did everyone a huge favor by getting their application out first. It is essentially 7 stories plus the MBA essay. With 6 of the stories having to come in at about 200 words each you are forced to refine them. This gives you 6 condensed stories plus one at 400 words, hopefully all covering different aspects of your candidacy. You can then add to them and craft them to fit into other schools' essays. I know starting with a top school choice goes against consultant gouge, but live by the gouge, die by the gouge. And this does correspond to the recommendation of compiling a list of stories and thinking about what characteristics they display. I've finished rough drafts of the essays, and as the other school apps come on line, I can see the stories flowing into them. This could be especially helpful to our brethren who start late and are behind timeline. Take it for what it is worth, but I think Harvard is a good app to start with, even if you aren't applying.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 16 Jun 2011, 00:35
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Here is a post about military application 3years before MBA plan, might be useful
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 03 Jul 2011, 22:16
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Another enlisted soul here from the Marine side of the house:

3.3ish from top 50 with 760 GMAT.
Meritoriously promoted all the way to E-5 with 2 years in service.
Afghanistan deployment.
Currently serving overseas as the G-3 Training Chief at a MARFOR.
End of Active Service May 2012 (rated my good cookie not too long ago)
Ranked undisputed #1 on all Fitness Reports (2 so far, soon to become 3)
Solid Recs from O-6, O-5, O-4.
300 PFT/ 300 CFT (probably can't use this information)
Fluent in 1 other language, Proficient in 1 other language, Basic in 1 other language.
Looking into the MBA/MPP joint or concurrent programs with HKS.

I'm having the most difficult time explaining in my essays the rank conflicts I've had due to being a young Training Chief. Do AdComs know the difference between Enlisted and Officers? Or Lieutenants and Colonels? I'm sure they know that Private is a low rank and General is high, but can anyone tell me how Barney-style I have to explain these differences?

Other than that, it's a pleasure to be on the same boat with you all. I look forward to cranking out applications while exchanging information amongst fellow service members. Count me in for Round 1!
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 04 Jul 2011, 03:50
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emont
Already posted in the 2011 thread, but would obviously be helpful for this year's applicants: https://poetsandquants.com/2011/06/10/do ... ns-advice/
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I read it. Very useful.

Good luck guys!!!
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 04 Jul 2011, 17:20
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mbamilitary
Another enlisted soul here from the Marine side of the house:

3.3ish from top 50 with 760 GMAT.
Meritoriously promoted all the way to E-5 with 2 years in service.
Afghanistan deployment.
Currently serving overseas as the G-3 Training Chief at a MARFOR.
End of Active Service May 2012 (rated my good cookie not too long ago)
Ranked undisputed #1 on all Fitness Reports (2 so far, soon to become 3)
Solid Recs from O-6, O-5, O-4.
300 PFT/ 300 CFT (probably can't use this information)
Fluent in 1 other language, Proficient in 1 other language, Basic in 1 other language.
Looking into the MBA/MPP joint or concurrent programs with HKS.

I'm having the most difficult time explaining in my essays the rank conflicts I've had due to being a young Training Chief. Do AdComs know the difference between Enlisted and Officers? Or Lieutenants and Colonels? I'm sure they know that Private is a low rank and General is high, but can anyone tell me how Barney-style I have to explain these differences?

Other than that, it's a pleasure to be on the same boat with you all. I look forward to cranking out applications while exchanging information amongst fellow service members. Count me in for Round 1!
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Your essay readers may know the difference, or they may not. You'll want to be very clear about exactly what your job is and what you've done, particularly since most adcoms are more accustomed to seeing applications from officers.

I would try to get some mileage out of any stories that show your ability to influence people who are senior to you...adcoms tend to like examples that show an ability to build consensus or persuade people without simply relying on rank/title.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 04 Jul 2011, 17:29
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I don't know whether ADCOMs know the difference, but they will find out the difference. Or at least that's what I extrapolated from a conversation with a GSB vet. He indicated that Derek Bolton called him at his apartment one night to ask whether a mortar platoon leader spot was harder to get than the Ranger Regiment. Maybe I'm over analyzing, but I was left with the impression that if there's something they don't understand they are going to tap the Vets Club to find out.

I think coming from the enlisted side presents unique challenges, but looking around the thread it doesn't look like there are too many blemish free candidates. Everyone will have something to overcome. Your GMAT's certainly going to raise some eyebrows...in a positive way.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! Updated on: 12 Sep 2011, 13:24
Originally posted by johnkangw on 07 Jul 2011, 12:54.
Last edited by johnkangw on 12 Sep 2011, 13:24, edited 2 times in total.
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Hi fellow veterans:
Program: FT MBA
GPA: Undergrad 3.9 Mechanical Engineering, US Military Academy. Graduate 3.7 MS Mechanical Engineering, Stanford.
GRE: 790Q, 690V

Work Experience:
1. 5 years US Army Engineer Officer
Nationality: US / Asian
Age: 28, 29 at Matriculation
Gender: M
Extra-Curricular/Community: Grad school mentorship program, church, and some community services activities.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 13 Jul 2011, 19:47
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Hello All,

I just wanted to introduce myself as someone who was a military applicant last year and is currently a first year student at MIT-LGO (MIT's dual Sloan MBA and Engineering Degree with an Operations focus: lgo.mit.edu).

My name is Zach and I am excited to be able to answer any questions you may have about the application process and other military applicant issues (IE: GI Bill). I look forward to providing a student's perspective on the program, MIT, Sloan, and my other application experiences.

And for my background:
Graduated in 2009 from the US Coast Guard Academy with a BS in Civil Engineering. Out of the Academy, I served 2 years in the Coast Guard. My first tour was on a large cutter doing Homeland Defense/Counter-Drug Operations. I then worked in support of the Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill clean-up operations.

I am looking forward to discussing the program/MIT/etc with all of you!
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 13 Jul 2011, 20:01
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John,

I noticed you specifically mentioned MIT-LGO as an interest, so please feel free to ask any questions you might have. I will tell it to you strait.

mbamilitary,

From my experience, most ADCOMs do plenty of research on you before you arrive. I would not be at all surprised if they did research on the military if they were not familiar. Further, I would assert that ADCOMs are typically much more interested in your responsibilities and experiences than rank. I do not believe I even mentioned my rank in my application, but I did stress my responsibilities and leadership/team methods.

Hope it helps,
Zach
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 17 Jul 2011, 23:00
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Hi Everyone,

I'm currently a student in the class of 2012 at Berkeley-Haas. Prior to attending Haas, I was in the Army for about four years. I came to Haas looking to transition to finance, and I'm spending the summer in an investment management position in San Francisco.

I remember relying on the great community here at GMAT Club during the application process, and I'm more than happy to be helpful in any way I can to folks who are applying this fall. If you'd like to discuss Haas, the application process, the transition process, or anything else on your mind, please feel free to reach out.

Best of luck to everyone applying this fall!
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 21 Jul 2011, 05:11
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Emont, Gryphon, and Zach,

Thanks for your comments. I'm still in the process of typing up my HBS essays. About halfway done. I've squeezed in a lot of persuasion examples like emont recommended. It really brings a different side to the story when there are conflicts to overcome, especially when rank comes into play (for me at least). Even though there's a high chance that adcoms will do research on the military, I thought it would be better to explain as much as possible in civilian terms, just to be on the safe side. They'd appreciate making their jobs easier, right? At least I know I would if in their shoes.

I don't know about everybody else, but I'm trying to get as many apps in the first round as possible because I'd really like to get all my interviews done within one trip back to the States. Considering that I'm not even done with my first app, I think I'll be going into panic mode relatively soon. Lol

Question: I'm guessing 99% are prior officers over here but just in case somebody has some insight... I was looking at the recommendation questions, and there's no way the O-6 knows me that much in depth. Would it be wiser to go with an E-8 that knows me inside out? Or do you think rank will be a factor here? Of course, he'll prob ask me to proofread his stuff before it gets submitted so presentation shouldn't be a big factor here.

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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 21 Jul 2011, 09:51
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I would say as long as it's a direct supervisor the rank won't really matter. Emphasize his position as your boss (and someone who had close day to day contact with you) rather than focusing on his rank. Who else do you have in mind for recommendations? HBS and Stanford will want 3, while most other schools I looked into only want 2.

I agree that you should put things in civilian terms as much as possible--one, it will make adcom's job easier. Two, it will show them that you're not locked into a military mindset and that you'll be capable of making a transition to the civilian world, and not looking like a tool in front of prospective employers down the road. But at the same thing you don't need to dumb things down too much, so there's a bit of a balance there.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 22 Jul 2011, 22:37
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Yes... I've realized that Harvard and Stanford are the only ones that ask for three recs from MBA schools. HKS asks for three as well. The O-5 is my current RO that I work with on a daily basis, and the O-4 is my previous RS that I've met while deployed to Afghanistan and pulled me into his next unit back in the States. Both are eloquent individuals and have been pushing me to attend OCS, so I think these two gentlemen would be a good fit for all of my recommendations.

For HBS and HKS though, I need to ask a third supervisor who knows me well enough to write a rec letter in depth. Two direct enlisted supervisors come to mind that know me very well: a SSgt from my prior unit, and a MSgt from my current unit. I guess I thought that the E-8 would have more pull since he's got higher rank in addition to being my current enlisted supervisor (although he doesn't evaluate me directly). There isn't really another officer that I've worked with directly on a consistent basis, so I didn't think that getting a letter even from an O-6 through O-8 would help much if all they're going to mention is "he's a great Marine and a hard worker. I would give him my highest possible recommendation." Stanford on the other hand asks for a peer recommendation, so I'll be asking another E-5 in my current unit.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants! 23 Jul 2011, 06:01
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mbamilitary
Yes... I've realized that Harvard and Stanford are the only ones that ask for three recs from MBA schools. HKS asks for three as well. The O-5 is my current RO that I work with on a daily basis, and the O-4 is my previous RS that I've met while deployed to Afghanistan and pulled me into his next unit back in the States. Both are eloquent individuals and have been pushing me to attend OCS, so I think these two gentlemen would be a good fit for all of my recommendations.

For HBS and HKS though, I need to ask a third supervisor who knows me well enough to write a rec letter in depth. Two direct enlisted supervisors come to mind that know me very well: a SSgt from my prior unit, and a MSgt from my current unit. I guess I thought that the E-8 would have more pull since he's got higher rank in addition to being my current enlisted supervisor (although he doesn't evaluate me directly). There isn't really another officer that I've worked with directly on a consistent basis, so I didn't think that getting a letter even from an O-6 through O-8 would help much if all they're going to mention is "he's a great Marine and a hard worker. I would give him my highest possible recommendation." Stanford on the other hand asks for a peer recommendation, so I'll be asking another E-5 in my current unit.
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Just go with whoever knows you well. I went to a Darden event yesterday and the Admissions Committee said they've received letters from the President, CEOs, and a "phone call from Senator John Warner...and that person didn't get in."
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