Career Switchers Thread (Commiseration, Helpful Hints etc.)

Question

Reading through the threads in the career forum and having listened to umpteen students at Wharton talk about how hard the job market has been for career switchers, I thought I'd start a thread for those of us with non-traditional backgrounds looking to make a career switch or just make a career switch fullstop. I'm not sure what I'm looking for (maybe some reassurance that I'm not leaving a good non-layoffable job to be penniless in two years) though commiseration and helpful hints are very welcome!

Anyway, I was sort of looking to see how many of us were out there and what advice some of the regulars here might have for us career switchers. One thing that worries me is the issue of declaring my GMAT score. I got a 700-should I take it over this summer for recruiting purposes? Is my strange career progression going to cut against me?

britguy · Answer

Hi, I'm an oil industry tech guy looking to move into eq. research and eventually IM. Can't give you much resassurance because I'm in a similar position, but I think focused career changes are possible. Unfortunately I think some guys end up at business school because they're bored of their current jobs and want to try "something" different, and I would expect them to have a hard time. My story is unconventional but I know exactly where I'm going and why, and I'm definitely prepared to articulate that in interviews.

If you're already accepted to a good b-school I wouldn't waste your time repeating the GMAT, unless you really don't like yourself. But again, I'm no expert - some of the senior guys might have more meaningful input.

If you're already accepted to a good b-school I wouldn't waste your time repeating the GMAT, unless you really don't like yourself. But again, I'm no expert - some of the senior guys might have more meaningful input.

3underscore · Answer

Everyone used to say a 700 is fine, but given the average is now above 700 the norm may shift.

muffeebrown - I can't see what you are trying to switch to. Being a JD can be really useful for some things (as pelihu showed for IB), but would be superfluous to other jobs.

DrSatisfaction · Answer

i knew some JD/MBA guys that did cross-border arbitrage work at the banks and made a killing. it'll also be useful for MA or LBO type of work i would imagine. probably consulting as well.

really depends on what you want to switch over into though.

Jerz · Answer

From what I've seen so far, career switching is tough but do-able. Switching into finance seems to be the hardest, but that's probably because the banks are still not hiring like they used to so the fewer spots are going to the people with the most directly relevant experience (i.e. former banker/IM/PE types).

The key to successfully making a career switch is to demonstrate that, although you haven't worked in your desired function before, you have transferable skills that will make you successful in the new function. Looking to go into GM? Talk about how you led/worked on cross functional teams, or motivated people. Looking to go into marketing? Talk about how you responded to customer needs, or came up with a creative solution to a problem. Looking to go into consulting? Talk about analytical skills or presentation skills (also network your butt off and get good at answering case interview questions).

Switching industry but not function is a lot easier, you just have to demonstrate to the company why you have a passion for the industry you're going into (through EC involvement, demonstrating you've gained industry knowledge, etc.)

In any case, the job market continues to slowly turn around so conditions for you guys next year are likely to be even better than what we're seeing now.

anu1979 · Answer

Sorry I wasn't clear. I'm looking to switch to finance. Unfortunately, I am trying to do exactly what Jerz said, which is switch function in an industry I already work in.

You guys have given me a lot to think about. I do think I will retake the GMAT. My experience has been that my score has always gone up on re-take (SATs, LSATs) so it doesn't hurt to try, especially if companies have cutoffs.

PBateman · Answer

Would you happen to have the link to where pelihu discusses that?

refurb · Answer

From what I've seen, career switching is not easy to swing.

It all really depends on what you are switching from and what industry you want to switch to. It also depends on how well you can articulate the value of your past experience.

There are people with health care backgrounds who landed amazing banking positions for this summer. If you want to switch into a general management role, it's also not a big obstacle.

If you're looking to go into a notoriously difficult industry (VC/PE) without any financial/banking experience it will be a very difficult process, but it can be done.

My one suggestion is to start gaining experience as soon as you get into school. A lot of schools have "independent studies" or other opportunities to do your own thing in your first year. Get cracking on that right away. I know of a few people that have lined up very impressive projects that they can talk about right now, when interviewing for summer positions.

Have a plan!

RF

anu1979 · Answer

PBateman , pelihu 's posts are ridiculously informative in general so I just stalked through all of them. You can search for posts by clicking on his profile ID. I did harbor a few hopes of VC but I guess I'll be abandoning them in favour of banking. I already know a ton of people at major banks-I guess it's time to start calling up my clients and reminding them of all the favours I did them over the last 5 years (vis-a-vis getting their deals done on time). My ex is also an md at a major investment bank though that's one call I'm hoping to avoid

PBateman · Answer

muffeebrown, that's what I started to do earlier this evening.

Takes a little time to find relevant topics and read through the thread, but often is worth it. Unfortunately, I've already begun to stress about my situation. Not anything that will impede me from working my a$$ off to get what I want, but I just want to make sure I make the right moves (most of the time) to get there. The current LT goal for me is to wind up in PE or IM. It seems the former is tougher to break into, and that the best conduit is IB.* With only 1 internship (unless I do the joint program), a non-finance background, and not having been trading stocks since I was 8, it seems the smartest path would be: Step 1: Land best IB internship possible Step 2: Rock out as associate for several years Step 3: Try to make the jump to PE/IM Step 4: ????? Step 5: Profit During school, I'll still be networking as much as I can to see if any doors are immediately open to PE, but I just don't think it's smart for me to roll the dice on landing any such internship as a career switcher. From the recruiting timelines I've seen, you'd be sitting on the sidelines during IB recruiting just biding your time...waiting...praying... Any advice here? e.g. "You've got a solid game plan laid out, but you definitely want to do XYZ as part of it too" or "No, you really need to look at this aspect differently" or "DON'T do that" *Can anyone comment on how MC measures up to IB as a route to PE? So many profiles I've seen on Bain Capital's website show an HBS => Bain MC => Bain Capital. Is this just a preference for their own? Thanks!

anu1979 · Answer

I have no PE/IM dreams, I think I'll just to banking. My ex was trying to make the jump to hedge funds after several years as an md, double h/hbs degees, CFA blahblahblah and it looked...hard.

As and aside, I guess I am a little taken aback that career switchers are having such a hard time with an MBA. My sister got a job at Oppenheimer in 2007 as a 4th year medical student with minimal effort. She was having some sort of late-med school existential dilemma or something. We talked her into staying the course and committing to the residency. Anyway, it's not Goldman Sachs or anything but supposedy they are doing quite well and as I said, she didn't put forth much effort. Then again, it was before the crash.

refurb · Answer

Two things, it's not impossible to land a PE/VC job as a intern, but there is a very good chance it won't lead to a full-time job post-MBA. It is valuable experience, but there is a very weak link, at best, between getting a PE/VC internship to lead to a full-time offer.

By best advice? As soon as you have access to the alumni database, start talking to everyone you can. Believe it or not, you have more than enough to time to do it in the first couple semesters of b-school. Once recruiting roles around, you won't have the time to do it.

Also, take every opportunity to talk to visiting executives, even if they don't have a direct connection to your post-MBA job goals. You'd be amazed at how many times someone has told me "I just went to talk to him, but he actually knows a guy in XXX industry and is putting me in touch!!".

Now that I'm done a little over 1/2 of my 1st year at Tuck, I personally believe meeting people and making connections is they MOST important thing you can do at b-school. You will never have as big an opportunity again.

RF

PBateman · Answer

I agree networking is crucial, even if it's for building rapport that you can circle back to a few years later when trying to make a move, e.g. IB to PE. I'm guessing there are not many on here, but if anyone is a career switcher who broke into PE with a solid gig, it'd be great to hear that story. Did they go for broke and wait for the firms to recruit in late Spring? Did they have prior inside connections somewhere? Get lucky?

I want to make sure I'm networking like hell, but that it's smart networking. If I have a 1 in 100 shot of landing a great PE job, I'm going to network to the extent that I can maybe snag a few interviews, but mainly to build contacts with whom I can keep in touch while doing IB or MC after graduating. I'll focus the majority of my efforts on getting the best IB or MC job possible. I understand you can't quantify your chances of landing any job, and that it's always a product of your effort, but I don't want to reach the end of my 2nd year scrambling for a job I definitely  don't  want.

NYCAnalyst · Answer

pelihu posted something about this in another (unrelated) thread but I'll raise the question here:

How are career switchers viewed at the top schools (Harvard / Wharton / etc)? I know that the latter rounds of OCR are invite-only, so how can a career switcher at a top school get the invite over someone at the school who already has experience in that industry?

For example, how can a career switcher at Wharton get an invite-only spot for an I-Banking associate position over someone who already has 2+ years of experience as an IB Analyst? It just seems that on paper, the career switcher is at a huge disadvantage - and at top schools like Wharton, I would imagine that there are tons of people who already have experience in the finance industry, whether it be IB, IM, or whatever.

Would it be wiser for a career switcher to attend a lower-ranked school (albeit, still a target), in order to differentiate himself from his / her classmates?

britguy · Answer

let's clear up a nomenclature issue here.

most people seem to consider themselves "career switchers" - MC to IB, IB to PE, IB to MC etc. this confused me when I first started investigating b-school because changing function within an industry eg. finance did not seem to count as a career change. I'm a geologist moving into equity research - THAT'S a career change!

But now I realise "career changer" is anyone looking to do a different role so I now consider myself a "radical career changer" or career changer with a non-traditional (business, finance) background. Same for engineers, IT, teachers, quarterbacks, soldiers and ballet dancers.

So if you're going for a PE gig, for example, you will be up against IB guys who will have a clear advantage if you're an engineer (although they might love your quant skills). But if you're an IB guy changing to PE, I wouldn't expect you to find too many former PE dudes fighting for the same job. Who does an MBA to go back to the same thing they were doing before?

That's my speculation anyway!

3underscore · Answer

BritGuy is pretty close to the way I think it is seen - have you done it before? No? You are a career switch. Some are easier than others, none are necessarily easy.

To the comment upthread - Oppenheimer would likely take a late stage Med person to lift knowledge and put them in healthcare stocks. For research, understanding an industry can always be an in (see techy guys getting into VC because they understand semiconductors). For others, they want something a lot more.

Career Switchers Thread (Commiseration, Helpful Hints etc.)

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