Chicago feeders/GRE question

Question

Hi I'm a potential B-school applicant for 2013, took the GRE but not GMAT, not planning on taking GMAT because I did very well on the GRE (750/760 according to the ETS calculator) and don't think I could/want to try to replicate it on GMAT.

I am from Chicago and would be perfectly happy staying there, so I have come up with a few schools that I think get recruited by Chicago area firms:

1. NU （of course)
2. Notre Dame
3. Ross
4. UIUC

???

Firstly, I'm wondering if there are other second-tier schools that would feed into Chicago? UW, Kelley and Iowa don't take the GMAT, so I think it's just those 4.

Second, while my GRE is high, I'm tempted to treat it less than it's been calculated to (maybe 700-730), as I'm sure ETS has a vested interest in projecting these scores higher to encourage more GRE test takers.

Third, assuming I get into Ross or NU, I think I'll be OK with finding non Ibank work in Chicago, but does anybody know anything about Notre Dame or UIUC as far as placing people? Most of my background is teaching but also recently international marketing, does pre-MBA work history make a huge difference afterwards?

hello212 · Answer

What about Booth??

Consulting2Finance · Answer

Chicago is the third largest city in the US and is a financial hub. Chances are you can find your way there from any top 15 school, if not immediately then after a transfer (I'm personally strongly considering Virginia, even though I'd like to end up back in Chicago one day). That being said, out of schools that put a significant number of graduates into Chicago, I would put them in tiers as follows:

1) Booth, Kellogg, Ross are the top tier.
2) Olin (WashU), Mendoza, Kelly
3) Wisconsin, U of I, Michigan State, Ohio State, Minnesota (OSU and Minnesota are not really a huge feeders to Chicago though compared to the other Big Ten schools in this list. Minnesota, for example mostly feeds Minneapolis)
4) Iowa, Purdue
5) UIC, DePaul some regional schools with MBA programs: (Lewis, Concordia, etc...)

Note there is a pretty big gap between the first and 2nd tiers. Tiers 3 and 4 are pretty close and possibly can be combined. Tier 4 and 5 have a decent sized gap as well, since these schools are stronger in Chicago than nationally.

All these schools accept the GMAT. I'm not sure whether or not they take the GRE.

zilong · Answer

Unfortunately only the part time program accepts the GRE. Same with UIC and Depaul too :/

zilong · Answer

Great thanks. Most of the above schools don't take the GRE, but Olin and Purdue do as well. I'll look into those.

e: Mendoza is really my first choice, given my work history probably wont' get me a lot of play at Ross or Kellogg, but I'll give it a whirl.

hello212 · Answer

You seem pretty set on keeping the GRE but I'd really encourage you to look into the GMAT. Your GRE score is great (maybe around a 750 equivalent GMAT), but honestly, you won't need a GMAT score that high to be competitive at these programs. Most of the schools on your list just want the GMAT to start with a 7, and then they otherwise ignore it (i.e. a 750 doesn't carry appreciably more weight than a 720).

zilong · Answer

Yeah I agree, and under normal circumstances I would definitely do just that. However, I'm currently working in China and studying to take the HSK (like Chinese TOEFL) in time to put my placement score on the application (August, since I hope to do first round so I know what to tell my job before my contract ends). I'm banking on a high Mandarin placement score being more beneficial for me than a potentially redundant GMAT that I may rush into and do poorly on when I already have a pretty good GRE. Anyway that's good news about the "7" rule, I hope that translates as well with convereted GRE scores

Another thing about the GRE is that my GPA is pretty low cumulatively (3.0 but 3.9 in the last 40-50 hrs) in the humanities (history/linguistics) and I want to make sure I can make up for that, so I wouldn't mind a 2nd tier school because 1. I'm not interested in I-banking no matter where I end up and 2. I have a very good network in Chicago from high school already. I guess we'll see. Thanks for the advice. E: just an aside, I was on Jeopardy in college, will this help my application? should I to focus on it or just include it as a "oh hey by the way" type of thing? Sometimes I think it'll help and sometimes I think they'll look at it as pompous.

xzeppelin · Answer

I am an expat who has been working in China for seven years, speak Chinese fluently in a professional and conversational setting (I have not taken the HSK), and I am originally from Chicago and looking to settle there after my MBA. I also just finished going through my MBA application rounds, in which I was accepted at three top schools, two of which are in the midwest. So I think that we probably have similar backgrounds and goals. I really don't want to sound like a jerk, but I'm gonna be real straight-forward with you here. You are extremely delusional if you think that the HSK will have even 1% of the bearing on your admissions that taking the GMAT and scoring a 700+ would. In fact, I'd say with some amount of certainty that at most only one or two of the admissions directors at say, Booth (where I will be matriculating) have ever even heard of the HSK. And even if they have, I don't think they would give any weight at all to an admissions decision based on it. It's an academic certificate that states your mandarin is at a certain level to study in academics. You aren't applying to study for a master's in China. You're going for a MBA in the US midwest. Checking "fluent" or "advanced" in the box next to where you put your mandarin language abilities on the applications will be weighed the same as the HSK. It will NOT make ANY determination toward your acceptance at a top business school. I'm not saying that fluency in a language like mandarin won't impact your application...in fact if you can weave that into your career goals for the future in a very meaningful way, it can certainly make for a great story. You don't need the HSK to tell this story though. Don't forget that top mba schools want international experience, but they also want a well-balanced person with strong work experience (whether at home or abroad), extracurricular participation and leadership experience or potential. Just marketing yourself as some really smart guy who speaks Chinese is a recipe for failure. This is the icing on the cake once you've established the strong business foundation of your application. With your GRE score, you could probably put in 40-50 hours of studying and familiarizing yourself with the GMAT over the next two months and get a 700+ score on the GMAT. With a 700+, I'd also consider expanding your schools list to include some east coast schools like Fuqua and Tuck that have reasonably large alumni bases in Chicago. Delay the HSK a month or two, because you're going to need something to distract yourself over the next year while you're waiting to hear back from your applications. Personally, I chose the CFA and the studying has been going well!

I hope you take this advice to heart and best of luck with your applications next year. Feel free to toss me a PM if you have any further questions.

zilong · Answer

Got it, so I will probably leave the HSK last, just for kicks. Thanks.

Actually from what I've seen, not having the GMAT basically screws me out of only a few schools, and most are 2nd-tier Midwest ones (Cal, Chicago and Duke too, but I'm not big on any of those), most of the Top 25 accept it. I may add Darden and Tuck just to cast a wider net, but I'd like to stay Midwest b/c my girlfriend lives in Chicago and probably won't move (she didn't move to Beijing so we will have already been apart for 1.5 years by the time I get back next year). Really, the idea of taking the GMAT and doing really well on it by this August kind of makes my skin crawl.

Thanks though, its' good advice, I just may not have it in me to kick another standardized test's ass.

As an aside, did you try to get LoR from your Chinese supervisors? Mine seem like they'd take it real personal if I left even though it would be according to contract. I'm not sure they'd do it, or even if they did, really write well in English.

xzeppelin · Answer

These schools say they accept the GRE, but I think applying with only the GRE without a really good reason is a bit like playing baseball blindfolded. I don't think anybody really knows how these schools look at these applicants or how they actually compare them to GMAT scores. Your GRE score is certainly damn good, and with a 800 Q I have to think you could nail the GMAT math section without too much hard work. I'd say it's at least worth spending an hour familiarizing yourself with the test, trying a couple practice questions, then downloading the free GMAT prep software from www.mba.com and seeing where your score is. I think for most people, it's a pretty accurate predictor of performance on the real test. If you are near 700 on your first practice test or even over it, then you could probably just buy the official guides (you can buy them in most large bookstores in China, as there are no shortage of Chinese students preparing the GMAT either), do all the practice problems, try some of the tricky problems here on gmatclub, and you could probably do well without a ton of work. If you are low-mid 600's, then you'd probably need to run through a whole prep program like Manhattan and you'd be looking at a more serious time investment. Then you might want to consider if you really want to do it. You only get one chance to do your MBA though, so I wouldn't get lazy about it. If you don't get into your dream school in Round 1, trying to pass the GMAT in 3 weeks between Round 1 decisions and R2 applications will be infinitely more hellish than taking a few months to do it now.

I did not have any Chinese nationals writing my recommendations. I had two expats and one previous supervisor who was born in China but has been a US citizen since the 1980's. so I can't offer you any advice on that. I might ask how other Chinese candidates deal with these issues and go from there. There is a Chinese forum called www.chasedream.com, there you can connect with thousands of locals going through the same process we here at gmatclub are

mangostar · Answer

I disagree with everyone who says you need to take the GMAT. I took both and I only reported my GRE score to Kellogg (it was right around the time when they were changing the scoring convention so ~90th percentile).

I know it sounds cliche, but the most important thing you can do for Kellogg's applications is to convey how well you would fit into the program. The Jeopardy story, if you can spin it the right way, will make you stand out to the adcom. Don't forget to identify specific parts of each program that you are interested in, e.g. at Kellogg -- KWEST, the SEEK program, etc.

Consulting2Finance · Answer

I think schools that accept both GRE and GMAT truly don't have much (if any) preference. However, if you score well on the GRE, likely you can score well on the GMAT with not a ton of effort. Why not take it, if it allows you to apply to more schools? It shouldn't be a reason not to apply somewhere, is the point being made.

mangostar · Answer

Naturally, if you want to apply to a program that requires the GMAT, then by all means take it. If the school you're applying to accepts the GRE, there is little value in investing the amount of time, effort, and money (test taking fees + books and/or GMAT classes) to take the GMAT too. It's likely that you may do similarly on the GMAT, but the math questions are a whole different beast.

zilong · Answer

Thanks for the replies everyone. I was originally planning on public policy, hence the GRE, so I will try to work that in to my application as an explanation of why I don't have a GMAT. It might not be a great story but it's true. I will definitely think it over and at least take a GMAT practice test. Congratulations to everyone who has been accepted!

CheatingatSolitaire · Answer

What was your split on the GRE?

Consulting2Finance · Answer

Zilong, I'm not sure I would do that as bringing up public policy school illustrates lack of focus on B school. Not that this isn't understandable, but B schools really like to see crisp clear cut goals articulated in an application (you can always change them afterwards). Personally, I don't think you need to address not tacking the GMAT at all. If a school accepts the GRE they are saying the test is fine for them.

My point above was if there are schools that don't take the GMAT to which you otherwise would have applied, I would take the GMAT, since you'll likely do well enough based on your GRE score.

zilong · Answer

OK, will not mention. Really the only school that I'm missing out on that I'd  really  want to apply to is Kelley, so I'm still on the fence about doing GMAT prep, especially b/c I'm taking the LSAT in December--long story, but mostly for kicks. Anyway thanks for the heads up.

zilong · Answer

710 Verbal, 800 Quant, 4.5 writing

Not sure what that translates to on the new scale.

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