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Re: Defeatism is taking its hold [#permalink]
Well Im certainly not one to give advice and Im not going to hijack your thread. Im going to bump this up because whoever can help your issues I am sure can help mine. I am in the same boat as you but 100 points higher. Im stuck at the 590 mark and do not know how to break the ceiling. There must be an error in the way we approach studying. I do not know what it is but ill cry for help with you brother....BUMP
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Re: Defeatism is taking its hold [#permalink]
Glad you posted, take comfort in knowing you aren't alone.

I'm in need of serious advice, I need a plan of action and I need it now.
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Re: Defeatism is taking its hold [#permalink]
lifeisshort wrote:
Glad you posted, take comfort in knowing you aren't alone.

I'm in need of serious advice, I need a plan of action and I need it now.


What schools are you targeting? What do the other aspects of your application look like?

You might have to think about next year if you are targeting a top program because you probably need more study time to raise your score.

It's hard to say what your problem is without knowing more detail. For example, you do not do so well in quant but what aspect of quant? Is number properties weak? Is geometry weak? Fractions...addition...subtraction. Have you tried an error log? There are just too many variables as to why you can't get over that hump. My guess is that to be in the 600-level you need to get, at the minimum, above 90% of the quant guide questions correct.

It could be that your fundamental knowledge is weak. Perhaps it's your approach. Perhaps it's nerves. It's really too hard to say. You can post a problem on this forum and explain your methodology so that others can critique your approach. Maybe it's not fundamentals. Maybe your strategy is weak. It's hard to say.

Manhattan Guides are great for fundamentals. Other than that Sackman's total gmat math (or something like that) is great but you will need time to learn that material.

I think the time pressures are adding to the difficulty. Sometimes there is no quick-fix.
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Re: Defeatism is taking its hold [#permalink]
I can't offer any real advice on study guides or methods since I really began studying just last week but I can suggest you read the posts by users who have improved from 400s to 600s. They are really inspiring and may give you the second wind you need.
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Re: Defeatism is taking its hold [#permalink]
Here's a link! 450-to-103441.html
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Re: Defeatism is taking its hold [#permalink]
I'm new here so I don't think I can give any good tips but you have come this far and you should already be proud of that. Good luck. I hope you find a solution that helps.
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Re: Defeatism is taking its hold [#permalink]
lagomez wrote:
lifeisshort wrote:
Glad you posted, take comfort in knowing you aren't alone.

I'm in need of serious advice, I need a plan of action and I need it now.


It's hard to say what your problem is without knowing more detail. For example, you do not do so well in quant but what aspect of quant? Is number properties weak? Is geometry weak? Fractions...addition...subtraction. Have you tried an error log? There are just too many variables as to why you can't get over that hump.


Geometry, seems OK, or at least this is where I have the most understanding.
Word Translations, is ultra tough for me.
Much of what's covered in Equations, Inequalities, & VIC's, I struggle with.

What do you suggest in terms of breaking down a plan? Going back through my MGMAT guides?
What about verbal? How can I break through my ceiling there?
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Re: Defeatism is taking its hold [#permalink]
lifeisshort wrote:
lagomez wrote:
lifeisshort wrote:
Glad you posted, take comfort in knowing you aren't alone.

I'm in need of serious advice, I need a plan of action and I need it now.


It's hard to say what your problem is without knowing more detail. For example, you do not do so well in quant but what aspect of quant? Is number properties weak? Is geometry weak? Fractions...addition...subtraction. Have you tried an error log? There are just too many variables as to why you can't get over that hump.


Geometry, seems OK, or at least this is where I have the most understanding.
Word Translations, is ultra tough for me.
Much of what's covered in Equations, Inequalities, & VIC's, I struggle with.

What do you suggest in terms of breaking down a plan? Going back through my MGMAT guides?
What about verbal? How can I break through my ceiling there?


You have to know the material in the guides. Go over it again if you don't know it.

Look up posts from Bunuel. He has some great material, especially inequalities.

Go through the questions on this site. Read the explanations. Sometimes you just need a different perspective on how to solve problems.

You can always PM me some questions with your methodology and I can take a look at where you are going wrong.
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Re: Defeatism is taking its hold [#permalink]
I know this is slightly unrelated, but have you thought of taking a preparatory course? Instead of studying by yourself? Sometimes, disciplined as we are, it becomes harder to concentrate if you're reading material from a book. Some people just learn better if they are taught to, just vocalization of concepts drives them home much better than reading through material.

If you're having trouble with Word Translations, I suggest using both MGMAT and Veritas Prep. They have a neat breakdown of books and I think your Quantitative can vastly improve if you make the best use of these resources. But my honest suggestion would be to take a prep course - whichever one you find ideal. There's Knewton, MGMAT, Veritas Prep. I just feel like your performance might improve if there's someone explaining stuff to you than you trying to read and internalize concepts at the same time. :)

Good luck!
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Re: Defeatism is taking its hold [#permalink]
Perhaps, in hind-sight a course makes sense, visual instruction certainly helps, but even if I had the money for a course, I don't have the time; the GMAT must be taken in the next week or two (at most) or else I'll miss the 2011 application cycle.

I get one shot at this, I can't wait another two years. I've put lots of prep-time in, stumbled some (had some gaps in studying/focus issues), and now I'm scrambling at the very end to "put it all together".

Currently, I'm retracing through a few of the MGMAT guides and will then move onto doing questions from the official guide, combined with full length exams. Should I add anything to my routine?
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Re: Defeatism is taking its hold [#permalink]
Why do you say you have 2 weeks for 2011 cycle?

Round 2 apps are in January. I was once told that it is better to have a more complete round 2 app than an incomplete or not as good Round 1.

What schools are you looking at?

Posted from my mobile device
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Re: Defeatism is taking its hold [#permalink]
jscott319 wrote:
Why do you say you have 2 weeks for 2011 cycle?

Round 2 apps are in January. I was once told that it is better to have a more complete round 2 app than an incomplete or not as good Round 1.

What schools are you looking at?

Posted from my mobile device


I thought round 2 was in November/December with round 3 in January (but that not all schools have a round 3)?

I haven't picked my schools yet but I really desire entering a Global/International MBA program. I'm not targeting top tier schools, if that helps. I started a thread not long ago on my goal: https://gmatclub.com/forum/seeking-global-mba-in-asia-100202.html
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Re: Defeatism is taking its hold [#permalink]
No, Round 2 goes on for a while. Round one barely just ended.

Why don't you think about the Veritas Prep Essentials Course? It's over one weekend?
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Re: Defeatism is taking its hold [#permalink]
I'm in a similar situation; and, after reading many posts on GmatClub, it appears that there are plenty of us out there in the same situation. I took the GMAT after studying independently for two months. I used MGMAT, OG and Princeton Review (would not recommend PR). I felt comfortable with the material but ended up getting a shockingly low score. I knew I had to reevaluate what I actually knew.

Recently I decided to sign up for a VeritasPrep course. I chose the video course because it allows me to set my own schedule. I can pause the presentation to feed and take care of my newborn. It's been two weeks and I've already addressed several weaknesses that were allowing me to feel "stumped" during the actual test. I can't speak for the other programs out there, but I'm very satisfied with VeritasPrep so far. I'm expecting a huge turnaround and know that it's possible if the time and work are put in.

Never give up! Good luck!!
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Re: Defeatism is taking its hold [#permalink]
whiplash2411 wrote:
No, Round 2 goes on for a while. Round one barely just ended.


So are there are only two rounds then, not three?
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Re: Defeatism is taking its hold [#permalink]
lifeisshort wrote:
whiplash2411 wrote:
No, Round 2 goes on for a while. Round one barely just ended.


So are there are only two rounds then, not three?


Most schools have three rounds but the the chances of getting accepted during R3 are slim.

What schools are you targeting?
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Defeatism is taking its hold [#permalink]
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Lifeisshort (and everybody else) -

First, let me echo what has already been said here: You cannot give up. If you've put in that much time studying, then all that's left is to translate that content into results. The reality is the GMAT is only partially a test of content. It is also a test of:

-How well you manage your time in test situations. Most people end up leaving a lot of problems blank, and that hurts more than anything else on the GMAT. If you can't do a problem in 2 minutes and you get behind, stress goes up. Then you can't think straight. So you start rushing. Then you make silly mistakes. You get the picture.
-How well you stay focused on the problem at hand. Most people try to discern how they are doing on the GMAT by thinking about whether the current problem is harder or easier than the last one. This is a disheartening strategy, as it's impossible to figure out how you are doing while you are taking the test. You just have to take it one problem at a time.
-How well you pick your battles. Even if you score a 770 on the GMAT, you are still missing a TON of questions...You just happen to be missing very high level questions. The key takeaway is therefore that you cannot solve all the problems. Sometimes you'll need to guess right away. Sometimes you'll need to spend 30 seconds to narrow down the answer choices. Sometimes you'll need to work for 2 minutes, realize you aren't any closer than you were 2 minutes ago, and just cut your losses.
-How well you can IDENTIFY the kind of problem in front of you. If you are a master of prime numbers but you don't realize that questions about the "Least Common Multiple" are really testing your ability to break down numbers into their prime factors or you are a master of identifying assumptions but don't realize that CR questions that you ask to strengthen or weaken an argument are in large part simply testing your ability to identify assumptions, you're leaving points on the table.

I share all this with you to make one key point: The GMAT is not a test of intelligence and thus your present struggle with breaking 600 is not a reflection of any learning disorder. I would guess that the reason you aren't hitting your goal score is because you aren't studying in the most effective way.

Although this refers specifically to problem solving questions, the fundamental idea is quite simple and applies to all GMAT problems: Don't focus on the fact that you are missing the question. Instead, figure out WHY you are missing the questions. If you don't know the underlying concepts, review those concepts in the books. If you don't know how to solve a problem in 2 minutes even though you know the concept (such as finding a "Target Number" when working with VICs), review that strategy. If a concept is just well beyond your comfort zone and you don't have time to learn it, decide TODAY how to recognize that problem so you can guess on it within the first 15-30 seconds.

Regardless of your area of weakness, you (and others in this post and throughout the forum) need to shift from asking "Why am I only scoring a XXX?" to saying "I am weak in Work problems...does anybody have any suggestions for how to solve them?" or even "Why must a noun modifier touch the noun it is modifying?"

With all that said, here are a couple specific pointers baed on what you said above:

-SC questions: These are all about training yourself to notice splits. For example, if you see a giant part of a question moved around, you should stay aware of either a change in meaning or a modifier issue. If you see some answer choices that have a pronoun and others that have the original noun still there, you want to ask yourself if there are any pronoun ambiguity issues.

Also: When you're getting 9 or 10 wrong in a row and then 9 or 10 right in a row, are those on paper or on the test? If they are on paper, are you working backwards through the books? The OG questions are organized by difficulty, so you might just be getting to harder questions. Alternately, you might just be the kind of person who needs to warm up. If that's the case, you know you need to do some practice in your car before you head into the test center. Finally, if you're good with SC you are probably good with grammar and thus the way you would choose to craft an answer choice is probably not aligned with the official answer. As a result, you need to learn to look for the BEST answer by crossing off things that are grammatically incorrect.

2. VICs: Train yourself to recognize these problems and then to immediately pick numbers. Honestly. For most people, the algebra is way too time consuming. Picking numbers is an absolutely appropriate and clever way of solving problems, but if you waste a minute with the algebra before you decide to pick numbers, that's a minute you'll never get back.

3. General Quant: If your quant score is so low that you won't even mention it, forget about the score. Figure out where else you have weaknesses and do targeted sets in those specific areas. Think of it like playing a guitar: Nobody learns to play the guitar by running through an entire song, then running it through it again, again, and again. Instead, we learn by practicing the opening riff 100 times, then moving on and practicing the chorus. Then, we play while we're singing. And so on. Focus on solving a problem with a certain concept, and move on to another concept only when you've mastered the current one.

4. Finally: Across all GMAT endeavors: Quality over Quantity. You should not be doing 100s of GMAT problems. You should be spending 8-10 minutes on every problem you do - identify your weakness, focus on finding new strategies, figure out why you got a question right or wrong, and otherwise simply dive in feet first into every problem you do. If you do 20 problems and spend 10 minutes each, that's an entire days worth of GMAT prep.

I know there's a ton here, but let me know if this all is helpful. Shoot me a PM if you'd like to talk more about specifics.

Best of luck,

Brett
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