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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 05 Jan 2023, 20:51
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jabhatta2
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Like this:
The transportation employees' union should accept cuts in retirement benefits "only" if doing so would be in the employees' best interest.

0Lucky0 - is the blue statement you wrote above, a re-phrase of (A) or is the blue statement a negation of A ?

re-phrase. Neat trick. Isn't it? :angel:
Show more


Yes :angel:

Could you go over the theory as to how you know about this ?

Well, I invented it. :)
Like you, I hated this as well and so I invented this technique to make it easier for me. :)
So just sharing my personal technique. Didn't learn it from anyone or read it anywhere or anything like that. :) It works for me so I thought to share it with you as you were struggling with this. :)
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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 05 Jan 2023, 21:10
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jabhatta2
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Hence the argument is not assuming that "cutting transportation & eliminating jobs" is the only way to resolve budget shortfall. It is suggesting that cutting retirement benefits is a way to resolve budget shortfall.

Also, when you negate (B), you get:

(B) The only feasible way for the agency to resolve the budget shortfall would involve cutting transportation service and eliminating jobs.
Negated (B) There are other feasible ways to resolve budget shortfall too.
.

Thank you so much KarishmaB. Just following up on negated B

Negated (B) There are other feasible ways to resolve budget shortfall too.

Just to crystalize my understanding of Negated B

Does the negation EXCLUDE "cutting transportation service and eliminating jobs" as a method to resolve the budget shortfall ?

I don't think Negated B excludes "cutting transportation service and eliminating jobs" as a method to resolve the budget shortfall, correct ?
Show more

I am not sure what your question is.

(B) X is the only way to do it.
Negated (B) There are other ways to do it too.

The negated option says that other ways exist too (of course X exists). It doesn't say that X is not a way to do it. Just that there are other ways in which the same thing can be accomplished too.
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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 06 Jan 2023, 00:00
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jabhatta2
Hi GMATNinja - how do you re-phrase (A) and (E) ?

The double negatives (marked in red) coupled with the "IF STATEMENT" [underline] is very hard to wrap your head around

Quote:

(A) The transportation employees' union should not accept cuts in retirement benefits if doing so would not be in the employees' best interest.
Show more


Assume
X = best interests
Y = accept cuts

Option (A): The transportation employees' union should not accept cuts in retirement benefits if doing so would not be in the employees' best interest.

The structure of (A) is: If not X, not Y

It implies:
Not X -> Not Y
and
Y -> X

This is the same as

Only if X, then Y

which implies:
Y-> X
and
Not X -> Not Y
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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget Updated on: 06 Jan 2023, 19:31
Originally posted by jabhatta2 on 06 Jan 2023, 06:53.
Last edited by jabhatta2 on 06 Jan 2023, 19:31, edited 1 time in total.
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avigutman
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Quote:

Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget shortfall. The fastest growing part of the budget has been employee retirement benefits, which are exceptionally generous. Unless the budget shortfall is resolved, transportation service will be cut, and many transportation employees will lose their jobs. Thus, it would be in the employees' best interest for their union to accept cuts in retirement benefits.

Which of the following is an assumption the editorial's argument requires?

(A) The union should not accept cuts in retirement benefits if doing so would not be in the employees' best interest.

2nd attempt) Here is my attempt on why (A) is wrong

I first have to re-phrase (A) as the following

Quote:

Re-phrased (A) : the Union should accept (cuts in retirement benefits) ONLY IF (cuts in retirement benefits) ARE IN THE INTEREST OF employees.


I dont think we need re-phrased (A) to be 100 % true to go from the red to the blue. I am not able to enunciate why though
The blue font makes a claim about what would be in the employees' best interest, jabhatta2. Not about what the union's interests are, nor about what the union should do. For example, it's possible that the union doesn't care at all about the employees' best interest, and that wouldn't undermine the editorial's conclusion.
Show more

Thanks so much avigutman. Interesting point above in the yellow.

I think what you are saying is
  • Between the blue and the red : it doesn’t really matter what the union thinks or does | should do or should not do
  • The unions thoughts / interests are MOOT in order to go from the blue to the red
  • If (A – variant) was there, even (A- variant) would also be wrong

Quote:

A – variant: The union should not accept cuts in retirement benefits if doing so would not be in the employees' best interest.
Show more

(A-variant) if anything is perhaps a strengthener
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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 06 Jan 2023, 09:53
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jabhatta2

Thanks so much avigutman. Interesting point above in the yellow.

I think what you are saying is
  • Between the blue and the red : it doesn’t really matter what the union thinks or does | should do or should not do
  • The unions thoughts / interests are MOOT in order to go from the blue to the red
  • If (A – variant) was there, even (A- variant) would also be wrong

Quote:

A – variant: The union should not accept cuts in retirement benefits if doing so would not be in the employees' best interest.

(A-variant) if anything is perhaps a strengthener
Show more
Can you try to articulate why or how (A-variant) strengthens the argument, jabhatta2?

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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 06 Jan 2023, 19:31
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avigutman
jabhatta2


Quote:

Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget shortfall. The fastest growing part of the budget has been employee retirement benefits, which are exceptionally generous. Unless the budget shortfall is resolved, transportation service will be cut, and many transportation employees will lose their jobs. Thus, it would be in the employees' best interest for their union to accept cuts in retirement benefits.

Which of the following is an assumption the editorial's argument requires?

(A) The union should not accept cuts in retirement benefits if doing so would not be in the employees' best interest.

Thanks so much avigutman. Interesting point above in the yellow.

I think what you are saying is
  • Between the blue and the red : it doesn’t really matter what the union thinks or does | should do or should not do
  • The unions thoughts / interests are MOOT in order to go from the blue to the red
  • If (A – variant) was there, even (A- variant) would also be wrong

Quote:

A – variant: The union should not accept cuts in retirement benefits if doing so would not be in the employees' best interest.

(A-variant) if anything is perhaps a strengthener
Can you try to articulate why or how (A-variant) strengthens the argument, jabhatta2?

Posted from my mobile device
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Hi avigutman – to go from the red to the blue, I think you need the following necessary assumptions
(i) The author of the argument believes the union has the employee’s best interest (hence the recommendation in the blue)
(ii) Saving jobs is in the best interest for employees

I got the sense that (A-variant) strengthened Necessary Assumption (1)
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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 06 Jan 2023, 21:09
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jabhatta2

Hi avigutman – to go from the red to the blue, I think you need the following necessary assumptions
(i) The author of the argument believes the union has the employee’s best interest (hence the recommendation in the blue)
(ii) Saving jobs is in the best interest for employees

I got the sense that (A-variant) strengthened Necessary Assumption (1)
Show more
It would be in my best interest for you to give me a million dollars, jabhatta2. That’s true whether or not I believe that you care about my best interest. (i) isn’t necessary.

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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 06 Jan 2023, 22:35
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Hi avigutman - the analogy did not help unfortunately. :(

Question : You mention (I) is not a necessary assumption.

What necessary assumptions do you think the editor is making with regards to the union specifically ?

I would imagine there would be at-least one assumption regarding the union specifically.

I would imagine the introduction of a third entity (not the editor / not the employees) but the union would bring about at least one assumption the editors have made regarding the union specifically

If there are no assumptions w.r.t the union specifically - i dont understand what the phrase "for their union" is doing in the blue conclusion (Yellow highlight below).

Quote:

Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget shortfall. The fastest growing part of the budget has been employee retirement benefits, which are exceptionally generous. Unless the budget shortfall is resolved, transportation service will be cut, and many transportation employees will lose their jobs. Thus, it would be in the employees' best interest for their union to accept cuts in retirement benefits.

Which of the following is an assumption the editorial's argument requires?

(A) The union should not accept cuts in retirement benefits if doing so would not be in the employees' best interest.
Show more
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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 07 Jan 2023, 07:56
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jabhatta2
What necessary assumptions do you think the editor is making with regards to the union specifically ?

I would imagine there would be at-least one assumption regarding the union specifically.

I would imagine the introduction of a third entity (not the editor / not the employees) but the union would bring about at least one assumption the editors have made regarding the union specifically
Show more
Why, jabhatta2?
jabhatta2
If there are no assumptions w.r.t the union specifically - i dont understand what the phrase "for their union" is doing in the blue conclusion (Yellow highlight below).
Show more
Which of the following is the editorial's claim, jabhatta2, in your opinion? You can choose none, one, or more than one of the following:
(a) The union should accept cuts in retirement benefits.
(b) The union's job is to do what's in the employees' best interest.
(c) If the union does accept cuts in retirement benefits, that would be in the employees' best interest.
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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 07 Jan 2023, 08:43
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jabhatta2
What necessary assumptions do you think the editor is making with regards to the union specifically ?

I would imagine there would be at-least one assumption regarding the union specifically.

I would imagine the introduction of a third entity (not the editor / not the employees) but the union would bring about at least one assumption the editors have made regarding the union specifically
Why, jabhatta2?
jabhatta2
If there are no assumptions w.r.t the union specifically - i dont understand what the phrase "for their union" is doing in the blue conclusion (Yellow highlight below).
Which of the following is the editorial's claim, jabhatta2, in your opinion? You can choose none, one, or more than one of the following:
(a) The union should accept cuts in retirement benefits.
(b) The union's job is to do what's in the employees' best interest.
(c) If the union does accept cuts in retirement benefits, that would be in the employees' best interest.
Show more

Hi avigutman

(I) Yes, (a) is a claim by the editor

(II) Subtle difference. (b) is not a claim by the editor. However, I think (b) is in itself an hopeful assumption made by the editor when he makes the blue conclusion.

(III) Yes, (c) is a claim by the editor
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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 07 Jan 2023, 09:00
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jabhatta2
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jabhatta2
What necessary assumptions do you think the editor is making with regards to the union specifically ?

I would imagine there would be at-least one assumption regarding the union specifically.

I would imagine the introduction of a third entity (not the editor / not the employees) but the union would bring about at least one assumption the editors have made regarding the union specifically
Why, jabhatta2?
jabhatta2
If there are no assumptions w.r.t the union specifically - i dont understand what the phrase "for their union" is doing in the blue conclusion (Yellow highlight below).
Which of the following is the editorial's claim, jabhatta2, in your opinion? You can choose none, one, or more than one of the following:
(a) The union should accept cuts in retirement benefits.
(b) The union's job is to do what's in the employees' best interest.
(c) If the union does accept cuts in retirement benefits, that would be in the employees' best interest.

Hi avigutman

(I) Yes, (a) is a claim by the editor

(II) Subtle difference. (b) is not a claim by the editor. However, I think (b) is in itself an hopeful assumption made by the editor when he makes the blue conclusion.

(III) Yes, (c) is a claim by the editor
Show more
Imagine that someone doesn’t see (a) being claimed by the editorial. What would you point to, jabhatta2, to convince that person. How would you prove that the editorial is claiming (a)?

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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 07 Jan 2023, 09:26
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avigutman
jabhatta2
avigutman

Which of the following is the editorial's claim, jabhatta2, in your opinion? You can choose none, one, or more than one of the following:
(a) The union should accept cuts in retirement benefits.
(b) The union's job is to do what's in the employees' best interest.
(c) If the union does accept cuts in retirement benefits, that would be in the employees' best interest.

Hi avigutman

(I) Yes, (a) is a claim by the editor

(II) Subtle difference. (b) is not a claim by the editor. However, I think (b) is in itself an hopeful assumption made by the editor when he makes the blue conclusion.

(III) Yes, (c) is a claim by the editor
Imagine that someone doesn’t see (a) being claimed by the editorial. What would you point to, jabhatta2, to convince that person. How would you prove that the editorial is claiming (a)?

Posted from my mobile device
Show more

avigutman -
I would point to the phrase "for their union" (yellow highlight) in the blue conclusion.

Why include that phrase (For their union) in the conclusion, if the editor does not want or hope or expect that the union eventually proceed with the cuts in retirement benefits

-----------------

Conclusion -- Thus, it would be in the employees' best interest for their union to accept cuts in retirement benefits.
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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 07 Jan 2023, 12:06
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Here's (A):
Quote:
(A) The transportation employees' union should not accept cuts in retirement benefits if doing so would not be in the employees' best interest.
This doesn't absolutely HAVE to be true in order for the author to reach his/her conclusion. Perhaps there IS a circumstance under which it makes sense for the union to accept retirement cuts, even if it's not in the employees' best interests.

Maybe, for example, the cut in retirement benefits would directly fund some other really important project (building a new hospital or something). In this case, it's possible that the transportation union SHOULD support the cut in benefits even though it ISN'T in the best interests of the employees.

That doesn't impact the author's conclusion that it WOULD be in the best interest of the employees to accept THESE particular cuts in retirement benefits.

Because the argument doesn't depend on (A), (A) is not the correct answer.

Show more

Hi GMATNinja - would you agree that (A) would be 'helpful" if it true ?

I think from what I read above - (A) is a strengthener but not a necessary assumption

If you could respond ASAP - that would be great ! D - Day is coming up :(
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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 09 Jan 2023, 12:37
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Analogy :

Editorial – Avi was caught stealing at work. The company is looking to fire Avi. If Avi is fired, Avi will never work again. The company has however, offered Avi a deal ,in which, Avi pays a 5,000 dollar fine but no firing. Thus, it would be in Avi’s best interest for his union to accept the deal.

Which of the following is an assumption the editorial's argument requires?

(Option A) Avi’s union should not accept the deal if doing so would not be in the best interest of Avi.
(A-variant) Avi’s union should accept the deal if doing so is in the best interest of Avi.
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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 09 Jan 2023, 18:33
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Why include that phrase (For their union) in the conclusion, if the editor does not want or hope or expect that the union eventually proceed with the cuts in retirement benefits
Show more
The union is mentioned in the conclusion because it has the authority to accept or reject the cuts in the retirement benefits.
The argument isn't claiming that the union will or won't or should or shouldn't do anything, jabhatta2.
The argument is merely claiming that if the union was to accept the cuts, such a move would be in the employees' best interest.
Does the author claim that the union should accept the cuts? No. Does the author claim that the union will accept the cuts? No.
Therefore, the argument doesn't depend on any assumptions about the union. The claim isn't about the union. Rather, it's about what would or wouldn't be in the employees' best interest.
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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 26 Feb 2023, 05:00
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TheRzS
Could an expert please weigh in?

Q1.
A. The transportation employees' union should not accept cuts in retirement benefits if doing so would not be in the employees' best interest.
E. The transportation employees' union will not accept cuts in retirement benefits if doing so will not allow more transportation employees to keep their jobs.

In A and E, does "doing so" stand for ACCEPTING or NOT ACCEPTING?

Q2.
Could someone please try negating A and E? Negating them seems to hurt the argument.

Thanks and regards
TheRzS Q1 -"doing so" here is indicating "Accepting"
Q2- Negating the option A. rather warps the information or the intent of what is being said, try this
A1. The transportation employees' union should accept cuts in retirement benefits if doing so would not be in the employees' best interest- it rather now intents to say that employees should accept loss
A2. The transportation employees' union should not accept cuts in retirement benefits if doing so would be in the employees' best interest- same here, it intents to say that employees should accept loss
Therefore, it does not hurt the argument rather warps the gist of question stem
would be happy to help in case anything is still unclear
Show more



Hi

My 2 cents

I believe Option A only mention only about employee benefits. and option E mentions whole about solving the issue of budget deficit.
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Hi ReedArnoldMPREP ChiranjeevSingh AnishPassi - how would you go about knocking out (A) and (E)

have read a lot of the above comments but still not 100 % confident about (A) and (E)

Do you use LSAT theory to re-phrase (a) and (e), first perhaps ?

When I read (A) and (E) - i immediately infer/rephrase (A) & (E) as stating :

Unions have the back of their employees

I keep thinking of the blue statement whenever i read (A) and (E)

Given the blue is in my mind, when I read option (A) and (E) -- i keep getting drawn to option (A) and option (E)

Reason - My statement in blue has to be something that is true in order for the conclusion to be true.
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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 27 Feb 2023, 09:40
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jabhatta2
Why include that phrase (For their union) in the conclusion, if the editor does not want or hope or expect that the union eventually proceed with the cuts in retirement benefits
The union is mentioned in the conclusion because it has the authority to accept or reject the cuts in the retirement benefits.
The argument isn't claiming that the union will or won't or should or shouldn't do anything, jabhatta2.
The argument is merely claiming that if the union was to accept the cuts, such a move would be in the employees' best interest.
Does the author claim that the union should accept the cuts? No. Does the author claim that the union will accept the cuts? No.
Therefore, the argument doesn't depend on any assumptions about the union. The claim isn't about the union. Rather, it's about what would or wouldn't be in the employees' best interest.
Show more

Hi avigutman – I think I am struggling to swallow the bits in yellow.

I keep bringing in the intentions of the union ITSELF for some reason or the other (I don’t know).

Remember in CR - every phrase -- is critical and every phrase is placed for a reason

In fact - the moment I remove the phrase “for their union” from the argument (Screenshot below) – I THEN BELIEVE WHAT you say in the yellow bits above.

Then only I can see why (a) and (e) are irrelevant

But the phrase is there and is confusing :(
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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 28 Feb 2023, 09:36
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jabhatta2

I keep bringing in the intentions of the union ITSELF for some reason or the other (I don’t know).

Remember in CR - every phrase -- is critical and every phrase is placed for a reason

In fact - the moment I remove the phrase “for their union” from the argument (Screenshot below) – I THEN BELIEVE WHAT you say in the yellow bits above.

Then only I can see why (a) and (e) are irrelevant

But the phrase is there and is confusing :(
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How would you rephrase the conclusion, in your own words, jabhatta2?
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jabhatta2
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Editorial: Our city's public transportation agency is facing a budget 28 Feb 2023, 10:00
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avigutman

How would you rephrase the conclusion, in your own words, jabhatta2?
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avigutman hmm - i am almost tempted to just drop the phrase "for their union to accept" completely and making the conclusion MUCH EASIER

Re-phrased conclusion - Thus, employees should accept the cuts in retirement benefits.

If the blue was instead the conclusion -- what the union itself does / what the union itself thinks / what the unions own interests are -- become moot.

But dropping phrase to 'oversimply' an argument is a dangerous strategy as it has led to problems in OTHER CR questions.
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