Re: Engineers transition to IB
[#permalink]
29 Aug 2008, 14:38
There's a highly obvious answer to this, and it's something that I have observed first-hand. It seems that nobody wants to touch the subject, but I'm going to dive right in.
Strong analytical skills are important, but the true test of investment bank recruiting is the social test. I've set it time and again, but I'll say it one more time here. The most important factor in landing a competitive MBA job is attending a target school (this is true for banking as well as consulting and other frequent MBA recruiters). The second most important factor, at least in banking, is the ability to schmooze effectively. Nothing else is more important (for career switchers), not grades, or past activities, or GMAT scores, or anything. In fact, I would say that mistakes in schmoozing are harder to overcome than bad grades or anything else I can think of at the moment. You screw up, you lose. That's why I have suggested many times, in posts and PMs and in person, that people interested in banking should practice schmoozing. Really. Practice. Working a room, what types of drinks to order, dining, dressing, handshake, and on and on. It's a lot of stuff, and practice is the only way to get good at it.
Ok, so now back to the original question. The OP asked "why is it not believable when Indian IT/engineering folks want to target IB". The answer is that it's extremely difficult for them to get the schmoozing part right - and Adcoms know this. I know people are going to have trouble digesting this, but it's absolutely true from what I've observed; I think some examples and details are important.
The first detail is that the challenge is not unique to Indian students; other international students face similar challenges and it's most likely related to differences in culture and language. I'm going to be generalizing a lot here, so try not to take offense - international students of all backgrounds face challenges. Indian students have a terrible habit of moving around in packs and descending on firm representatives as a group. An Indian friend of mine actually observed this and pointed it out me. The challenge is that to your average white banker (generalizing again of course), foreign faces of a given culture tend to be hard to differentiate, and unusual names make matching names and faces impossible when talking to 50 or 100 people a night. I'm not sure if this propensity has cultural roots, but to a casual observer (they are watching you all the time at events) it shows a lack of ability to interact and work with others. If this is you, you need to keep it in mind and work on it - go out with friends every night to different social situations until you get it right. Another observation is that South Americans tend to get more excited when they speak and are quite demonstrative with their hands and bodies. This is really a negative at things like cocktail receptions, where things tend to be crowded and I've literally seen people step back away from people thrashing around as they speak. Not good. Dining customs are quite different in certain Asian cultures but it's just not OK to eat with your mouth open, talk with your mouth full and smack your lips as you eat. I understand that in some cultures eating noisily is an indication that you appreciate the meal, but that's an automatic ding. Some European students refuse to dress appropriately for business events. I don't care how sexy you look, but super-tight suits (especially pants) are just not appropriate, and people definitely need to learn how to tie a proper tie knot. A sloppily tied tie makes a horrible impression. So, these are just some generalizations that may or may not apply to individuals, but as a rule, you need to make sure during recruiting to meet the standards of business. This can vary around the world, but a lot of standards are taking hold worldwide - and if you're talking about schools within the US, there is just one standard, even if you're looking at international positions.
So, culture is a problem for the Indian IT person, but that's not the only thing. IT and engineers just aren't known for their schmoozing skills (remember, the most important thing once you get into a target school). If I had to just give a gut reaction knowing nothing else other that work history, here are the professions that naturally have the best schmoozers (just my opinion, don't get your panties in a bunch): people in sales and marketing (particularly sales), consultants, bankers (they made it through the schmoozing gauntlet once already) and entrepreneurs (kind of like sales people). There are others, and everyone is an individual of course, but people with these backgrounds tend to do well. Additionally, people with fraternity/sorority backgrounds and those that were highly involved in social activities are well prepared as well. If I had to create the opposite list of naturally good schmoozers, engineers and people in IT would be near the bottom of the list, behind med students but ahead of people going into hard sciences (again, just my opinion). The stereotypes tend to play out in IB recruiting as well, as consultants seem to have no problem adapting to IB schmoozing, while many IT folks have a terrible time making the transition. I'm going to say it again, you schmoozing skills will be a heck of a lot more important than your analytical skills when trying to land interviews and jobs.
So, these are not things that are impossible to overcome, but people vastly underestimate how much effort they need to put into learning how to schmooze. Think of it this way, someone who worked in sales or as recruitment chair for their fraternity has spent literally hundreds of hours in cocktail party type situations and have struck up thousands of conversations from scratch. They have learned how to speak in memorable sound bites so people will remember them after just a few minutes (which is all you will have). They already know how to work a room, and avoid mistakes in dress, dining, etc. If you don't have this type of experience, it's going to take more than one etiquette dinner to learn and hone these skills. Adcoms know this, and they know that students with the background in question have a very difficult time making the transition.