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# Fall 2006 Applicants - come here!

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CEO
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19 Jul 2005, 11:00
littlefauss wrote:
Quote:
Sure, if the primary goal is enterprenuership , a business Ph.D may not be for you.

If you want to start your own consulting firm, yes, a Ph.D will help as far as quantitative skills are concerned.

Praetorian

Good point, though you'd think there'd be a more efficient way of developing quant skills sufficient for a consulting firm than pursuing a business PhD. But, if he wants to do the entrep consulting thing as his primary goal, but also wanst to leave open the possibility of settling into mid life career in academia, the PhD might make reasonable sense.

But if not, wow, what a commitment to pursue a PhD if he doesn't want to teach at a research univeristy, what opportunity costs! You'd think there'd be a course of action that would have a better ROI than that.

My mistake..i did not make my point clear. Many professors pursue consulting careers while still in academia. I would definitely look at this option.

Praetorian
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19 Jul 2005, 11:24
Well all of you have very good point there, but here is how i look at it, reason i want to do a PHD , well many:
1. In the past year i have realized that there are two essential thing that you have to learn to build a business a. Organizational behavior, people management... b. Finance.
2. A normal MBA course does not and i suspect will not explore the issues i have seen while trying to build a organization, it might help me in building a business but not a organization.
3. In a phd i will have a chance to nose into the top thinkers and minds and well built organization to assimilate all the knowledge i wish to gain in order build a organization.
4. Being as young as i am, it is very difficult to learn on the job as nobody really takes you seriously in the first go and does not let you get involved in the decesion making that teaches you about the finer points of building something. hence , a PHD allows me and gives me the freedom to explore as much as i want.
5. lastly, I wish to get inspired for extremely smart people who believe in becoming the experts in their domain and not be generalist.
6. Some of the best business ideas on which businesses have been built have come into being thru research.
Also, Thats the plan to consult while i am doing a PHD. and I am in a hurry, so pursuing and MBA and then getting into a JOB and then starting a business is too time consuming, also working for a the next few years andthen applying for a MBA is also too time consuming. Basically i dont think that if i work for the next 5 years i would want to do a PHD Or even a MBA. But who knows whats in store for me in the next 5 years!

Yes i have a inclination towards consultancy, it suits my character quite a bit. and if i am going to build a business its going to have to be through what i have learnt by throwing myself at it personally and not rely on data that is generated by someone else.

what say you??

also any comments on the fact that i have a 3 year degree???
Manager
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19 Jul 2005, 21:17
Most schools follow the course of action outlined by Chicago's GSB:

Applicants must have completed a master's degree. One year of a two-year master's program is not sufficient. The B.Com., B.A., B.Tech., B.Eng., or B.Sc., or other similar degrees alone are not acceptable.

Hope it helps,

M.
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20 Jul 2005, 07:25
Quote:

My mistake..i did not make my point clear. Many professors pursue consulting careers while still in academia. I would definitely look at this option.

Praetorian

No, probably my mistake, I should've surmised that. And me, a person who aspires to a business PhD, with inadequate reading comprehension!

Anyway, of course, you're spot on, many profs do consulting while maintaining academic careers. Some, utilizing the skills and knowledge they've gained, even start businesses. I can't imagine the latter, where do they find the time? I know of one prof who's the chair of her department at a small but AACSB accredited university (MBA program, no PhD program) who's a practicing attorney and partner in a firm while being a FT academic--unless one or the other position is of the figurehead variety, that just seems insane!
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20 Jul 2005, 07:44
kvsingal wrote:
A normal MBA course does not and i suspect will not explore the issues i have seen while trying to build a organization, it might help me in building a business but not a organization.what say you??

I'm not sure about that point.

To my understanding, an MBA helps you in building a business or an organization. I'm in a PT MBA program now at the University of Massachusetts. We're learning practical things to build businesses and/or organizations, things like: marketing, general management, accounting, HR management, stats, econ, finance, etc.

A PhD is really more about learning to do scholarly research, quantitative and qualitative. Now, that research may have practical applications in the field of business--or it may not--but it's something quite different from what you'll learn studying for an MBA, and the PhD studies are in no manner applied in the sense that they'd teach you the nuts and bolts of running an organization.

It's not that one's better or worse (though the PhD is certainly more rigorous and a longer haul); it's just that they're for vastly different purposes. If you want to run a business, you should probably pursue the MBA first or only; it's not that long--two years at most. Many top UK programs are but one year (for examp, Oxford and Cambridge). And my bet is that even most academics who are pursuing a business on the side (like those mentioned above) have an MBA in addition to the PhD; the practical, applied knowledge from the former is very valuable to applying the esoteric theoretical knowledge of the latter. And in case you're in such a hurry, please realize that the MBA preceding the PhD is a very common path.

Unless you want to spend a career doing scholarly research, I'd advise against a PhD, and frankly, unless you altered your statement of purpose, you'd likely be told the same thing by adcoms for PhD programs--they'd tell you "Thanks, but no thanks, go get an MBA or an MS in Management".

There's another forum where you could take your inquiries. It's the Business Week B-School forum. There's a thread called "Strategy PhD taking questions" or somthing like that. It's been going on for years now, and I believe has over 10,000 posts in the thread, there are several business PhD students of all stripes who post there, as well as at least one tenured professor. Check it out, they'd be able to give you far better advice than me.

Best to you!
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"I was going as fast as I ever went in my whole life...then I fell off."

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20 Jul 2005, 12:12
Thank you so much for your prespective, I cant thank you enough for being so explainatory and upfront....

you have said some things which are making me think and some others which i am pretty clear about. But thank you for making me think!!

I draw a very delicate distinction between a business and a organization, even though the two are related, but creating a business is not that difficult, however creating a long lasting , inoovative and large business is, and that can only happen once you build the right Organization, which talks about the culture, the people, the relationships, DNA of the business etc etc. the fundamental ideologies your business will grow and thrive once you have either moved out or the organization has grown too big for you to keep in direct contact with each person in the business.

Hence i tend to think that all of this can be created once i understand the nature of relationships, people, functions etc etc quantatively thru a PHD using real time data, rather than a MBA course that will tell me what the good guys did and what the bad guys did and start assuming and forming my preceptions based on their experience and let that influence my decesion making.

I know it sounds odd that i wish to do a PHD inorder to start a business, its not the well treaded path, its almost sucidal to think about it sometimes.... but i wish to use the time spent their to get a better understanding of things first hand and use the period as an incubation period for my businesses to come.

I am guessing the adcomms are not orthodox and rigid, and if they do see a resoning that maybe out of the box but sensible would generate interest....... Thnak you for recommending the BW forum. lets see what they have to say
thoughts??
???
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20 Jul 2005, 18:45
Hey,

I understand your rationale. However, adcoms all explicitely state that they wish to admit researchers, and nothing but researchers. Mentioning an interest in starting a business will immediately kill your application at any school ranked in the top 20. Period.

However, while the opinion above is true of virtually every first-tier school, I have heard that second-tier and third-tier institutions tend to be less adamant about one's reason for pursuing a PhD. Perhaps you should look at such programs, if your primary interest is to learn about the nature of organizations (reputation is fairly irrelevant if you want to be an entrepreneur anyway)

Good luck

M.
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21 Jul 2005, 10:57
elhajoui wrote:
Hey,

I understand your rationale. However, adcoms all explicitely state that they wish to admit researchers, and nothing but researchers. Mentioning an interest in starting a business will immediately kill your application at any school ranked in the top 20. Period.

However, while the opinion above is true of virtually every first-tier school, I have heard that second-tier and third-tier institutions tend to be less adamant about one's reason for pursuing a PhD. Perhaps you should look at such programs, if your primary interest is to learn about the nature of organizations (reputation is fairly irrelevant if you want to be an entrepreneur anyway)

Good luck

M.

That's true. At top-tier universities, I've been told that even expressing a passion for teaching can get your applic dumped in the circular file! It's true that once you get past the top 50 or so PhD programs, they're more willing to be creative and take a chance on a non-traditional candidate. I've talked about it elsewhere on this forum, but I've corresponded with a fellow in a Biz PhD program ranked in the 60s by USN who was admitted at the ripe age of 52! Talk about non-traditional! This is a good, but not elite, nationally-known state program, nothing to scoff at.

So if our other poster is willing to set his sights on the PhD programs from 50-100, he might be able to make his way in. But if he wants to go Ivy or even a prestige state university, they won't even give him a chance. His applic will be dead at soon as it hits the adcom.

_________________

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Last edited by littlefauss on 21 Jul 2005, 11:05, edited 2 times in total.
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21 Jul 2005, 11:03
littlefauss wrote:

_________________

"I was going as fast as I ever went in my whole life...then I fell off."

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23 Jul 2005, 04:46
Thank you Both, Yep i made to the BW forum already.... And got a reply for Associate Prof of Emory saying PHD is not the right path.

Hmmmmm...

Guess its time to put on the thinking cap and figure out if I am willing to go down to 60-100 ranked schools

All the best to you both though!!
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PHD in OB/M-Score 740 Q(49) V(41) [#permalink]

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23 Jul 2005, 23:29
Need help!!!

Am an Engg Grad (75% )with Total 3 yrs exp with 1 yrs in Vendor Development&Supply Chain Management and 2 yrs Software Development. I did my MBA from a Tier II BSchool in India and graduated (2004 April) with 3.3/4 GPA. I currently work as an HR Manager in a group company.

My GMAT score is 740 (2nd Attempt). 1st Attempt (640). I aspire to do PHD in Organization Behavior/Management. Expected entry in fall 2006.

Could anyone help me out with the prospective schools, taking into consideration my profile (Having changed 3 unrelated jobs). Your open comments on this is welcome.

Any pointers to University Ranking for PHD in OB/M.

Thanks and Regards,
Sabarish
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24 Jul 2005, 06:13
Changing jobs does not make any difference to PhD Adcoms. They are interested (as already pointed out by our clubmembers !) in 'researchers'. So it is the "potential to do research" that counts. This is the factor that you need to focus on while doing your statement of purpose.

Your GMAT score is already "hurdle cleared" for the admission. I am not sure about the schools that you graduated from - but Univs like Harvard tend to look down upon international applicants who are not from top institutes of their country. So you know which univ not to apply to

For a ranking, see other posts - there is no ranking for phD programs. Good schools for OB remain among the top schools - HBS, Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Insead. Tech oriented schools like MIT, Carnegie Mellon etc may not be on your radar. Again, you need to think about which ares in OB interest you most, before a comprehensive list can be drawn.

Best wishes !
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24 Jul 2005, 23:33
I am Praveen, did Btech from IIT Kgp in 2002 and MBA in Finance from IIT Bombay, in India. I am thinking of applying to PhD programs in US/Europe. My GPA in Engg is not good but its very good in MBA and I was among the top 5 overall, and top 3 in Finance. have got very good grades in Fin courses..Hope to get good reco from profs. i will be appearing in GRE in sept..as sm universitis dont accept GMAT for Finance programs (Columbia)...is there any kind of preference to GMAT in other universities. I will ask for advice on which universities should i apply where i have realistic chance..i m not looking beyond top 20 universities.
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15 Aug 2005, 13:30
Hello everyone. I just wanted to introduce myself. My name is Chris and currently I am preparing to take the GMAT. I plan to get my Phd in Business(Finance). I have always wanted one because I want to be able to teach, do research and learn more about finance & financial markets. In the future I also plan on getting some real life experience but right now I want to finish up all of my schooling first.

Practice GMAT Scores:

Power Prep
Test 1: 420 (1st)
Test 2: Not Taken Yet

Arco
Test 1: 460 (2nd)
Test 2: 550 (3rd)
Test 3: Not Taken Yet

Kaplan
Test 1: 590 (4th)
Test 2: Not Taken Yet
Test 3: Not Taken Yet
Test 4: Not Taken Yet

Princton
Test 1: 530 (5th) - This was weird because I got the highest percentage of the questiosn right on this test.
Test 2:
Test 3:
Test 4:

Dream Schools:

Wharton Business (This was the first college to recruit me to transfer to their program in undergrad.)
Northwestern (This school is supposed to have a very good program.)
Stanford
NYU
UCLA
Duke

I am currently attending Southern Methodist University's Edwin L. Cox School Of Business.

SMU GPA = 3.48
Overall College GPA = 3.7
Senior Manager
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05 Oct 2005, 22:18
Hi,

I'm from Singapore and is thinking of applying for PhD in IS, focusing on the area of e-Biz. The few schools that I have identified include Stanford, CMU, Rochester, etc - typically among the top 30 in MBA B-Sch rankings.

- 3 year undergraduate course in Singapore
- attained Bachelor Degree in Business (2nd Class Upper Honors), specialised in Applied Economics
- Scored A and B grades for modules like Econometrics, Business statistics, research methodology, Mathematical Economics, Applied Econometrics
- On Dean's list
- GPA: 3.32 (back of envelope calculation, as my school doesn't use the GPA system)

GMAT: Took in early Oct 2005.
Total: 750
Quantitative: 90th percentile

Professional Experience:
- Co-founded an e-Biz during my undergraduate days (1998). And this business is still ongoing.
- Work in the public sector for a year after graduating from NTU, involved in the nation's G2B developments.
- part-time teaching and training in e-marketing courses

Questions:
1. I feel that my GPA and GMAT quantitative is on the low side. Any comments on this?

2. Do I have a shot in the schools that I'm targetting?

Thanks in advance, and all the best to everyone...
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05 Oct 2005, 23:09
Hey there,

I think your GPA/GMAT are fine for application purposes. Your major concern should be your undergraduate degree: most, if not all American PhD programs require their applicants to have at least a 4-year undergraduate degree or equivalent. You should call each school to make sure you are not wasting application $$for nothing. best of luck! M. Senior Manager Joined: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 413 Followers: 1 Kudos [?]: 19 [0], given: 0 ### Show Tags 08 Oct 2005, 07:15 elhajoui wrote: Hey there, I think your GPA/GMAT are fine for application purposes. Your major concern should be your undergraduate degree: most, if not all American PhD programs require their applicants to have at least a 4-year undergraduate degree or equivalent. You should call each school to make sure you are not wasting application$$\$ for nothing.

best of luck!

M.

Thanks. If the 3-year undergraduate degree is not an issue, how do you think of my chances for the schools mentioned?
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08 Oct 2005, 12:42
Then I'd say aim for lower first-tier of higher second-tier schools (Vandy, Emory, Irvine, Texas, etc.)
Senior Manager
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08 Oct 2005, 16:48
elhajoui wrote:
Then I'd say aim for lower first-tier of higher second-tier schools (Vandy, Emory, Irvine, Texas, etc.)

Thanks again. Why do you think the schs (in the like of CMU, Rochester) mentioned are out of my reach? Where are my weak points?

2nd-tier - I'm considering some of them. The difficult part is there is no credible sch ranking for PhD. I'm using ranking for MBA courses as a benchmark.
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09 Oct 2005, 00:35
it is my understanding that the upper first-tier program generally (but certainly not always) recruit students who have achieved a first or equivalent (i.e., top 5-10% of their class). But then again, please let me know if an upper-second corresponds to a really good rank at your university,

m.
09 Oct 2005, 00:35

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