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GMAT: Round 2 24 Feb 2008, 21:00
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Chineseburned, you can write GMAT Prep over and over. You will see new questions, and your score correlates 1:1 (what part of that don't people understand?). It's an accurate reflection of your cognitive speed/accuracy.
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GMAT: Round 2 24 Feb 2008, 21:06
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enough talk. the proof is in the pudding. Regardless of whether the practice scores are valid, what is certain is that you have nothing more to gain from them. It's time to take the test.


When is your Test Date?
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GMAT: Round 2 24 Feb 2008, 21:10
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I can still improve. My mental speed is there, I barely get tired anymore. I have to review some grammar rules some more, then do GMATPrep a few times. Also have to review some divisor rules.

I'm going to book it for beginning of march. Haven't booked it yet.
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GMAT: Round 2 24 Feb 2008, 21:18
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I can still improve. My mental speed is there, I barely get tired anymore. I have to review some grammar rules some more, then do GMATPrep a few times. Also have to review some divisor rules.

I'm going to book it for beginning of march. Haven't booked it yet.
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This sounds like it's become a bit of a personal addiction. I really don't think schools view 780, 790 and 800 differently. I'd guess there are maybe ~500 people a year who score 780+, so why differentiate further? Harvard couldn't even fill out a class with all the people getting these scores in a year.

My feeling is that once you get up into this score range everyone has the ability to rock an 800. Luck gets thrown in. What questions you get, which way a guess goes...that sort of thing. Just take the score and be happy with anything 99th percentile. Anything above that is just to feed a personal obsession, not because it helps you get into a program (which is the only reason to be taking the GMAT in the first place!)
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GMAT: Round 2 24 Feb 2008, 21:37
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2 reasons, I tutor people ($$) and more scholarship ($$).

So, it's worth it.

A 760 is not the same as a 790/800. Sorry.
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GMAT: Round 2 24 Feb 2008, 21:40
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2 reasons, I tutor people ($$) and more scholarship ($$).

So, it's worth it.

A 760 is not the same as a 790/800. Sorry.
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but you're already in the 780+ range, and I don't think any school is going to give you more scholarship money because you scored a 800 instead of a 780/790.
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GMAT: Round 2 24 Feb 2008, 22:13
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2 reasons, I tutor people ($$) and more scholarship ($$).

So, it's worth it.

A 760 is not the same as a 790/800. Sorry.

but you're already in the 780+ range, and I don't think any school is going to give you more scholarship money because you scored a 800 instead of a 780/790.
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Well, I used to think that there wasn't much of a difference. I thought that 750 or higher scores were all the same, however now that I've been studying more and more, and improving my abilities at the same time, I believe the GMAT score does truly reflect your cognitive abilities. To score an 800 is a rare feat, one that requires tremendous brain power and the most miniscule amount of errors.

It all depends on what you're aiming for. If you want to gain admission to a top school, a 720+ should suffice. But if you want to get a scholarship, then a 780+ is definately a requirement.

And yes I guess it is an addiction of sorts, lol. I do have an addictive personality. But I enjoy challenging tasks, and the GMAT is indeed challenging.

PS - I was trying to read up on the difference between the So X as Y idiom.

Eg.

I pinched every penny so as to be a rich man.
I pinched every penny so that I could one day be a rich man.

I still don't "get" it. Can someone explain it? Thanks.
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GMAT: Round 2 25 Feb 2008, 01:43
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Good luck in your next (and hopefully last) attempt at the GMAT. I think that in GMATPrep, there are closer to 2000 questions in all, not 10,000. Nor do I think that there are '51Q' questions per se. I have seen the GMATPrep results of over 100 students, most of whom did not get a quant score over 49 or a verbal score over 42. Yet the questions they face are largely the same as the ones that you get when you score an 800 on GMATPrep. You are right in that there is much to be gained by doing GMATPrep repeatedly, as long as you do not answer 'repeated' questions from memory. Even on the real exam I did last year 51Q 48V, there were no outstandingly difficult quant questions. You seem to have a great chance at a
tremendous (780+) score, so go ahead and book!

How's the market for GMAT instructors where you live? What's the going rate? Are there good instructors in the area?
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GMAT: Round 2 25 Feb 2008, 13:49
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Hey Addict,

I've got 2 months left... What material should I focus my attention on and what should I save until later? Can you recommend a schedule? I'm looking to do 2 hrs each night.

Weaknesses: Verbal. Am hitting ~77% on all sections through 200 1000Series questions... Need to get to 90%.

Here is what I have:
OG 11
OG 11 Supplements
Veritas Prep Books
GMAT Plus
Manhattan GMAT Prep Books
Kaplan
PR
Retired MBA.com Tests
1000Series questions

I was planning on leaving OG questions until 1 month left... not sure what you think about that... Plus I plan on leaving GMATPrep until the last 2 weeks.

Thoughts?
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GMAT: Round 2 25 Feb 2008, 14:13
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kevincan
Good luck in your next (and hopefully last) attempt at the GMAT. I think that in GMATPrep, there are closer to 2000 questions in all, not 10,000. Nor do I think that there are '51Q' questions per se. I have seen the GMATPrep results of over 100 students, most of whom did not get a quant score over 49 or a verbal score over 42. Yet the questions they face are largely the same as the ones that you get when you score an 800 on GMATPrep. You are right in that there is much to be gained by doing GMATPrep repeatedly, as long as you do not answer 'repeated' questions from memory. Even on the real exam I did last year 51Q 48V, there were no outstandingly difficult quant questions. You seem to have a great chance at a
tremendous (780+) score, so go ahead and book!

How's the market for GMAT instructors where you live? What's the going rate? Are there good instructors in the area?
Show more

Yeah, all I want is a 780+, that's good enough for me. Less than 500 are given out a year, I think. You scored 51/48 - what did you get with that? I think Pelihu said that should yield 800, but I'm not sure about that.

It's actually pretty good, I just started up a few weeks ago and I've tutored a few people. I just tutored a girl, 1.5 weeks, took her from 550 (53rd) to 660 (84th) in 1.5 weeks. I charge $50/hr local, for the nearest big city, $75-100/hr, 3 hour min to cover gas/travelling time. A big thing that factors in is obviously your social skills, most of these clowns that score high on the GMAT are anti-social rejects who can't even hold a conversation... let alone write an advertisement that's free of grammatical errors/typos (really sad, actually). I actually enjoy it... good $$, low hours, you don't sit infront of a computer, you get to pick your clients... etc. Versus the cubicle - horrendous hours, stare at a computer all day, not so great $$ after taxes, the coworkers.. ugh. :-)


Going to write another GMAT Paper in a bit... got wasted last night, but I'm sober now and rested :-)
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GMAT: Round 2 25 Feb 2008, 14:19
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Hey Addict,

I've got 2 months left... What material should I focus my attention on and what should I save until later? Can you recommend a schedule? I'm looking to do 2 hrs each night.

Weaknesses: Verbal. Am hitting ~77% on all sections through 200 1000Series questions... Need to get to 90%.

Here is what I have:
OG 11
OG 11 Supplements
Veritas Prep Books
GMAT Plus
Manhattan GMAT Prep Books
Kaplan
PR
Retired MBA.com Tests
1000Series questions

I was planning on leaving OG questions until 1 month left... not sure what you think about that... Plus I plan on leaving GMATPrep until the last 2 weeks.

Thoughts?
Show more

K. Veritas, GMAT Plus, Manhattan, Kaplan, PR - burn those or sell them. They are 100000% useless.

All you need is PowerPrep, GMATPrep, OG, Paper Tests, and the only useful 1000 series are the SC's, too many of the CR's are taken from LSAT's and you're wasting your time learning those.

3 hours a day should be fine. Maybe even 4, do 1 during the day then 3 in the evening, or do
MTW Thursday off, Friday Sat, Sunday off.

What are your Q/V's?

Here's what I would recommend.

Write 2-3 GMATPrep's a week, then go over your answers and review/learn all the fundamentals from the questions you get wrong. Then try to get your accuracy higher by doing lots of questions from SC 1000, that's a great resource. If you're getting 77% there are probably a few concepts you're not understanding, perhaps tenses, moods, idioms, etc. Take note of the ones you get wrong and try to understand what the question is testing, then go learn that concept.

Again, but the first thing is to burn (or, sell) all of those books. Useless. Completely useless. I remember when I was studying off that crap, I'd learn their SC rules then go do OG guide stuff and get completely demolished (they don't know grammar).

But yeah I *HATE* those books. The people who wrote them have never scored high, besides maybe Veritas.
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GMAT: Round 2 25 Feb 2008, 15:36
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What is the difference between PowerPrep & GMATPrep??
The first one I guess is the GMAC software of 2 CATs which you recommend retaking numerous times. But what is the second one?

I would recommend taking the Manhattan or the Kaplan CD CATs - these are the hardest CATs out there. But the books are not great, I agree.
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GMAT: Round 2 25 Feb 2008, 15:52
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What is the difference between PowerPrep & GMATPrep??
The first one I guess is the GMAC software of 2 CATs which you recommend retaking numerous times. But what is the second one?

I would recommend taking the Manhattan or the Kaplan CD CATs - these are the hardest CATs out there. But the books are not great, I agree.
Show more

I disagree. The CATs are useless, they test concepts completely different from the GMAT. Waste of time. You can score 580 on a Kaplan CAT and score 780 on the GMAT, or you can score 590 and score 550 on the real GMAT. Complete waste of time.


PowerPrep is the older software by ETS. That thing has very few questions, but it's still good practise to write. You can't rewrite it that often, maybe each test twice in a month before you remember the answers. GMATPrep is much better.
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GMAT: Round 2 25 Feb 2008, 16:03
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PowerPrep is the older software by ETS. That thing has very few questions, but it's still good practise to write. You can't rewrite it that often, maybe each test twice in a month before you remember the answers. GMATPrep is much better.
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So, GMATPrep is the new software with 2 CATs that you claim has a bank of 10,000 questions and PowerPrep is an older version with different bank of questions?

Where can one download PowerPrep?????
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Why do you say GMAT Plus and Veritas Prep books are useless?

These are the Veritas Prep books from the actual GMAT course...

Also, what would you recommend as the best CR practice/strategy?
I fluctuate on RC a lot... Sometimes go 90%... other times 60%... what to do here?

My scores are ~45 Q / ~35 V through Kaplan CAT, PR 1, PR 2
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They're useless books.

They've never written a single question that's ever appeared on the actual GMAT, nor have they ever put one of those questions in their books, as they're copyrighted.
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so because they don't fit into your personal study strategy they're useless?

Thousands of people out there swear by some of these books. Personally I LOVE the Manhattan GMAT books and think redoing GMAT Prep tests until your blue in the face is one of the most inefficient study techniques I've ever come across. However, if it works for you then more power to ya.

I think you've forgotten (or never knew) what it's like to be starting from scratch without a solid grounding in the fundamentals. When you're up in the rarefied atmosphere of percentiles, then sure, repeating OG tests is a good way to get comfortable with question structure and timing. However, if someone doesn't even know the basics then they can take tests until they're blue in the face and it won't do them any good. They'll keep getting low-mid level questions, get them wrong and not get any explanations for what they did wrong.
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eschn3am
so because they don't fit into your personal study strategy they're useless?

Thousands of people out there swear by some of these books. Personally I LOVE the Manhattan GMAT books and think redoing GMAT Prep tests until your blue in the face is one of the most inefficient study techniques I've ever come across. However, if it works for you then more power to ya.

I think you've forgotten (or never knew) what it's like to be starting from scratch without a solid grounding in the fundamentals. When you're up in the rarefied atmosphere of percentiles, then sure, repeating OG tests is a good way to get comfortable with question structure and timing. However, if someone doesn't even know the basics then they can take tests until they're blue in the face and it won't do them any good. They'll keep getting low-mid level questions, get them wrong and not get any explanations for what they did wrong.
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The books reinforce incorrect answers and approaches. Like I said, most are written by people who have never scored high on the GMAT. Most people who come to me tried studying for months off the books, went and wrote the GMAT, and ended up scoring abysmally. As I teach them, I always hear "wow this is so simple, this book and this book were so confusing and their approaches so inefficient" etc. Sigh I'm tired of repeating myself, if I had to bet on who'd do better between a genius who studied off of the "other" books and an average person who carefully and methodically taught himself from the OG my money would be on the OG.

Didn't have time to do any real studying today. Going to do some SC's until I puke.
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StartupAddict,


Dude! I don't care what some people say about you....I don't care how credible your drinking, sleeping, or toilet stories are....But I have to tell you - you fkn rock!!

You are a true inspiration for those of us who are challenged and motivated by the constant seek for perfection. My initial goal was to get a 750-760 score during my second attempt. Now, because of your posts, I won't rest until I get 780+.....

Please tell me the details in the differences between GMATPrep and PowerPrep. How many questions in each bank and what's the overlap between the two? How would you advise taking/retaking those tests? I can only take tests on the weekends.
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GMAT: Round 2 26 Feb 2008, 00:54
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StartupAddict,


Dude! I don't care what some people say about you....I don't care how credible your drinking, sleeping, or toilet stories are....But I have to tell you - you fkn rock!!

You are a true inspiration for those of us who are challenged and motivated by the constant seek for perfection. My initial goal was to get a 750-760 score during my second attempt. Now, because of your posts, I won't rest until I get 780+.....

Please tell me the details in the differences between GMATPrep and PowerPrep. How many questions in each bank and what's the overlap between the two? How would you advise taking/retaking those tests? I can only take tests on the weekends.
Show more

Haha. Thanks Chineseburned.

You can easily achieve 780+. What are you scoring in Q/V? Depending on what your weak area is, work on that. The most important thing I'd say is mental endurance, that is, being able to stay alert and focused after having the impossible questions fired at you in rapid succession.

PowerPrep has a very limited database, GMATPrep is much bigger and broader, and I would recommend working mainly with GMATPrep. The forums here are good practise too, but be very careful with the SC's that are posted here-- people don't tell you the source, and a lot of the time they're from Kaplan/McGrawHill/etc, which are useless and teach you incorrect concepts. The CR's too, they come from LSAT's or other sources, which again don't teach you the real GMAT CRs. Math, those are always good practise no matter what.

Do you have any time during the week? I'd say do GMATPrep 2x a week, and the Paper Tests once in a while. If you ever get a question wrong, study it. Why did you get it wrong? What was the underlying concept? Questions you get wrong are actually a gift-- they provide you with hints as to what areas you're weak at. Like me, I'm not perfect, I still don't get that damn So X as to Y / So X that Y concept, so I'm studying that right now. The main point is to learn the fundamentals and become a speed freak / stamina demon. If you see a question with a concept you're good at, say in SC using who/whom, then you can answer that question in 20-30 seconds, banking you valuable time that you can utilize for later and much harder questions.

Again there are no tricks. You have to learn everything and focus on mental endurance. One thing I like to do for mental endurance is to do the Paper Tests way under time and going with your "gut" instinct. If you can develop this "gut" instinct, you're set. Remember, the less you really think about a question, the more mental energy you save for the really challenging questions.

Hope that helped...
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