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Important Posts from Wharton Class of 2016 Discussion

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Important Posts from Wharton Class of 2016 Discussion  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Apr 2015, 22:59
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GMAT Club’s Best of the Best
Collection of Important Posts from Wharton Class of 2016 MBA Applicants’ discussion.




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GMAT Club’s MBA Resources
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Live Chats with Adcoms of leading B-Schools
Application Experiences of Applicants
MBA Admission Consultant Reviews – 2015
2015 MBA Applicants’ Profiles
MBA Applicant Blogs
Current Student Blogs

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Booth (Chicago) Class of 2016: GMAT Club Application Stats


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“For those who don't get the call this afternoon, remember it isn't the end of the world. Wharton isn't the only MBA program out there that will help you achieve your goals. Certainly a number of schools can do so, but if you decide Wharton is the only place for you, there is always next year. :) For those that do, congrats! your patience payed off - go schedule that interview.
Whatever the case, be sure to update your status on here, and remember - the MBA is a tool to get to your destination, not the destination itself. Good luck everyone!”
- Hamm0, GMAT Club Moderator and Cornell MBA Graduate

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Applicant | Essays
Two essays this year:

1. What do you aspire to achieve, personally and professionally, through the Wharton MBA? (500 words maximum)

2. Academic engagement is an important element of the Wharton MBA experience. How do you see yourself contributing to our learning community? (500 words maximum)

Full application goes live in August. Good luck! - hamm0

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Applicant | Essays
MBAjunkie16 wrote:
So it begins! :twisted:

Any thoughts on the second question about how you can contribute to Wharton?


Sounds like a "fit", "direction", and "school research" question rolled into one. Wharton seems to value teamwork and intellectual aptitude/curiosity more than anything else. It's also a heavily student-driven program, so I'd say a good answer would use past examples and school-specific research to show that you've got what they want, that you know what interests you in and outside the classroom, and that you've got the initiative and motivation to get involved and improve the place. - dukealum7

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Admission Consultant | Admission Tips
Hey NeanderthalMan! Welcome to GMAT Club.

A bunch of not-quite-rights in your post that we wanted to comment on.
NeanderthalMan wrote:
I know I need to score in the 98th or 99th percentile
Not true; people get into Wharton all the time with a total score in the 85th percentile or above. Average GMAT for accepted students at Wharton is currently 725 - yes that's high but it's 95th percentile(ish) and remember that it's an average, there's plenty of people with lower scores. Having both quant and verbal each > 80th percentile is recommended. The schools are flexible, they look at the whole package.

NeanderthalMan wrote:
I must use the essays to discuss how my previous academic trajectory differentiates me.
Not true; there's nowhere in your essays where you could discuss this, and anyway, they see straightaway from your app what your academic background is. Instead of discussing how that "differentiates you", you should focus on the specific essay questions and talk about why an MBA is the right next step (the angle of "how I'm prepared, given this specific background" is always helpful for everyone and will be especially so for you).


NeanderthalMan wrote:
Unlike the majority of GMAT test takers, verbal has historically been my strong suit.
Lots of people applying to bschool are better on the verbal side; this is true for probably half the applicants we see.

You definitely have an interesting background and the schools are often very open to those coming from a different path into bschool - but there's also challenges as a nontraditional applicant, in terms of showing how the MBA is the right next step. Lots of resources here at GMAT Club so you're in good company with everyone else applying! Good luck to you on the test and everything else! - essaysnark

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Admission Consultant | Essays
Physics wrote:
I have begun working on the essays and am not sure I am directly answer the questions:

1. What do you aspire to achieve, personally and professionally, through the Wharton MBA?
Regarding the "achieve professionally" portion, should the bulk of the text be on career goals upon graduation, or should it be focused on how Wharton will get you there. I guess I am not sure what the focus of the essay should be on:
1) what I want to do upon graduation and flesh that out in detail using the majority of my word count on this (Do we discuss long term career goals as well?)
2) Or do we say I want to be a sell-side equity research analyst at Deutsche Bank focusing on the technology sector and X, Y, and Z are necessary attributes to being successful in this endeavor and this is how the Wharton MBA will prepare me, and then list out specific qualities of Wharton. (In this example, the majority of the text focusing on what the Wharton MBA offers that will aid in our pursuit of our professional goals)

2. Academic engagement is an important element of the Wharton MBA experience. How do you see yourself contributing to our learning community? (500 words)
Narrowing in on the words "academic engagement" and "contributing", do we discuss specific ways we can contribute to the academic element of Wharton such as classroom work, assisting a professor in research, participating in school run programs? I guess I am not sure if taking on roles in student run organizations (ie. professional clubs) or participating in the global learning program qualify as "contributing to the learning community" under the umbrella of academic engagement.

Hmm I am not sure I am being clear in my above questions. Any thoughts? Much appreciated

(I did read StacyBlackman piece posted here and found it helpful, but wasn't clear on the above)


First: There's no one way to do it, and we don't want to sound like we're prescribing a formula. But there's definitely some easier ways to frame it out, and you're thinking about things the right way.

1) Go more with your option 2. Wharton definitely wants to see a good discussion of literally what your goals are, with a focus on the short-term (immediate post-MBA) goal first and foremost. A mention and brief explanation of long-term goal can also be good, but be careful about going too long term since that can often make the goals seem unattainable or unbelievable. Keep things very practical and feasible, given your actual background. Then, talk about both what you bring to the table - a quick mention of what you have done that shows you're ready - not just as summary of your resume but some specific experience or achievement that shows you're qualified. And the remainder on "why Wharton" with the angles that you described. The details you had on analyst at DB are awesome, definitely keep that.

It's tough to fit all of that into such a tight space but it's important to cover all of those aspects.

2) EVERYTHING that you mentioned is fair game in answering this question. There's even some other areas that could be explored as well. Participating in a club may not feel "academic" but it's all part of the Wharton educational experience, so it qualifies. Don't neglect the first interpretation you've offered though; sometimes people talk only about the clubs etc. and they forget the classroom bit.

You've got more in this one question than we sometimes see in people's first drafts, so you're headed in the right direction, for sure. To some extent, we can tell you not to overthink it - go with your instincts. As we said above, there's not just one right answer. You're analyzing things really well - go with it and see how it starts to shape up for you. - essaysnark

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Admission Consultant | Admission Stats
If you want to really gasp at the numbers, Wharton has seen apps drop every year for four years even when other schools are reporting increases:

Class of 2012: 6,832 -9% from Class of 2011's all-time high of 7,493 apps
Class of 2013: 6,442 -6%
Class of 2014: 6,408 -1%
Class of 2015: 6,036 -6%

Still, 6,000 apps is a lot of apps. - essaysnark

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Applicant | Recommendation Letters
WhattheFuqua wrote:
Anyone know what the recommender questions are for this fall?


LETTER OF RECOMMENDATION QUESTIONS

1. Describe your relationship with the applicant; what kind of role does s/he play within your team/organization? How does his/her performance compare to that of peers? (500 words)

2. Continual development is an important part of the Wharton MBA experience. What is an area of growth that you would recommend this candidate focus on during his/her two years at Wharton? (500 words)

3. As we are evaluating this candidate for a place in the class, what’s the most important thing we should know about him/her? (500 words) - essaysnark

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Wharton Alumnus | School Info
zurichs wrote:


The aforementioned article is not and should not surprising given Wharton's strong tie to Wall Street (the school was formerly known as The Wharton School of Finance).

Many schools have core competencies (HBS = management / Stanford = tech / Wharton = Finance) and depending on latest macro-trends, a school will either benefit or suffer. Essentially, Wharton's core competency is tarnished at present - everyday there is a new negative article about finance. Nothing is permanent and the tides will change. HBS has at times fallen to 4th and 5th in rankings, so has Stanford and Booth. These schools cycle through the top spot(s) but rebound because they have strong alumni, great university affiliations and the recognition of employers. You really cannot go wrong regardless of where you choose to go.

Despite the current situation, Wharton still puts more people on Wall Street than any other school, and those jobs still pay more than any others (even after the decline).

The most important thing to ask yourself is whether you think a school is highly reputable (pedigree helps a lot) and if the companies you want to work for recruit there. Last week Tesla was, along with Apple, Amazon, Google and Microsoft were on campus. I have multiple friends who worked at all these places and Wharton has strong, demonstrated ties to the West Coast tech scene. In May of last year, our tech / entrepreneurship competition attracted top VC judges who represented billions in AUM.

We also have the Goldmans, McKinnseys and Blackstones of the world as well.

An small admissions statistic cannot and will not derail a school with a century of success.

Ultimately, you want to leave on a better path than you came in on and the recruiting power of this place is in my opinion, incredible.

Best of luck everyone. - jcswinterpark

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Admission Consultant | Recommendation Letters
ashwinkumar96 wrote:
1500 words is too many for recommenders to write. Will it be ok if they write fewer than 500 per essay? Any approximate estimate of how many words is considered ok?

ashwinkumar96, 1500 words is the maximum for recommendation letters. It's OK if the whole letter is less than that, but each answer should be substantive. Quality is more important than quantity, and they should use their judgment. These are important questions, and a critical deliverable for your application. If your recommender isn't willing to put in the effort on your behalf then maybe you should try to find someone else who can be a stronger advocate for you. - essaysnark

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Applicant | Admission Tips
AK2017 wrote:
essaysnark wrote:
jumsumtak wrote:
Just check on the website whether you are a 're-applicant'. Some schools mention that you need to have applied in the last cycle to be called one. Not sure what's W's policy.

Wharton's reapplicant window is 2 years. No schools that we know of have a 3-year window.


Does it mean that I am no longer eligible to apply after two years?


AK2016 it just means that after 2 years you are considered a fresh applicant.. meaning you dont have to write the re-applicants essay and neither will your previous application be referred to by the admissions committee. You are always eligible to apply. - vibhav

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Applicant | School Info
domotron wrote:
vibhav wrote:


Pure speculation at best and scaremongering at worse. No one knows what the Wharton admissions committee are thinking other than those who work there.


Guys, I really think you're overreacting to the recent news out of Wharton. Certainly the school still gives you a blue chip name on your resume. Prestige isn't something that comes and goes year over year; that is called trends. I'm sure most of you agree that Wharton isn't trendy, its prestigious. The employers that look to hire Wharton grads (by the way, they're still lining up around the block to get a W grad), remember the Wharton of the last 15-20 years, not the Wharton that WSJ is depicting today. In other words, it is still a top tier MBA program.

On the admissions front, yes, it is a bit disconcerting that Ms. Kumar left the week before round 1 applications were due, it doesn't change everything. There are still 10-15 admissions employees left at Wharton who are committed to filling Wharton with the best candidates they can get. They are not incompetent, and know how to evaluate a candidate beyond your GMAT and GPA. Certainly the school would not want to see GMAT numbers drop this year, but do you really think they're going to sacrifice their golden goose - the Wharton experience - to protect a portion of what goes into rankings?

At the end of the day, yes, it is upsetting what is being reported at Wharton. But you shouldn't be overly concerned about the changes. - hamm0

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Applicant | Admission Tips
While not strictly about Wharton, the article below suggests that the applicants in Round 1 have some significant advantages over the applicants in Round 2 -- and at least in terms of *interest and preparation* the Round 1 applicants form a stronger pool to draw from than the Round 2 applicants.

IDK if I am totally convinced, but FWIW:

Quote:
"Early applications show serious interest and planning. In this round, you may have the greatest statistical chance, since you're only being compared to the current candidate pool.

In fact, a former Chicago Booth School of Business admissions committee member says the committee accepted 65 percent of Booth's students during this round.

For applicants to second-tier schools, the top 20 to 40, applying in the first round conveys that the school is a top choice and could result in a scholarship, says a former committee member at the Jesse H. Jones Graduate School of Business."

- (From: Evaluate in Which Round to Submit Your B-School Application, USNEWS, July 19, 2013.) - teleste

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Applicant | Admission Stats
dairymilk wrote:
Curious - what percentage of applicants are invited to interview in all rounds collectively?


From Poets and Quants - Numbers are a year old, I assume its class of 2014 numbers
http://poetsandquants.com/2011/04/22/th ... n-the-u-s/
School UPenn (Wharton)
Applicants 6,832
accepted 1,145
Accepted% 16.8
Enrolled 817
Yield 71.4%

Another source I read that around 40% of interviewees get accepted so around 2500 are extended interviews or about 35% of applicants which sounds high...

Edit* Looks like acceptance rate is up to 20% in 2012 according to http://poetsandquants.com/2011/04/22/th ... n-the-u-s/
With application volume down 10% from 2011->2012 to Wharton and uncertainty towards application volume this year the % of total interviews can be even higher if my assumption of 40% interviewees getting accepted holds true.

From http://hbsguru.com/blog/2009/10/14/hbs- ... adcom-now/
We see the following data for 2012
Applicants 6189,
admitted 1165,
Enroll 800,
number interviews 3000
percent admitted post interview 39%

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Applicant | Interview Invite
KN790 wrote:
any Lauder applicants get invites?

Yes, Lauder international applicant here, and I got an invite.

According to a reliable source,
invite timing may depend on where your file placed is on the application file stack during the review (may be top or bottom of the stack regardless of app submission date), and it does not necessarily indicate the strength of your application.
Hope you hear the good news soon! - AK2017

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Applicant | Waitlist
lostkiki wrote:
Does anyone know when will the waitlist decision for R1 be released and in what pattern? (w/L with interview or W/L without interview and got put in R2 and be reviewed again?)


I believe, based on past info, that you get waitlisted at Wharton after interviewing. I don't believe they waitlist without an interview, and they don't seem to have a program like HBS where some candidates are deferred for further consideration (FC) in Round 2 without being interviewed. - ktlee1981

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Applicant | Interview Debrief
boulderbiker wrote:

Anyone have a sense for what's typically discussed in the 1-1 interview? I'm surprised the interviewer wouldn't have read your whole application!


From what I've read online, it seems like a quick (10-15 mins) follow-up to the TBD plus a brief behavioral segment. Here's a good excerpt from Clearadmit (http://blog.clearadmit.com/category/int ... l/wharton/):

"Then we had to wait until we were called for our 1-on-1s. Here, the interview was really very open. I was told that I could talk about whatever I want, for example my impression of the interview, any new developments since I submitted my application, or any questions that I had for her. I then chose to go exactly with this order, i.e. I first explained what I liked about the interview and what I wished had gone a bit better, then a brief update on any career developments, and then I even had a brief moment to ask her two questions."

I think the interviewers go in blind on the 1-on-1 to both simplify things logistically and minimize bias prior to the TBD since they're also grading you on that. - dukealum7

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Applicant | Interview Debrief
Interviewed on campus earlier today. It went well. Group interview starts off with 1 of the 2 administration fellows in the room reading out the prompt then you and your team and left completely to your own devices with only 2 timing warnings from the adcom. Can't really give much advice since its completely dependent on the type of team you end up with. We had 5 consultants and 1 marketing person and the conversation was quite smooth with everyone getting equal say and we were able to reach a consensus by times end. 1 of the consultants is applying for the HCM program and mentioned that he is awaiting news from the dual program still.

1 on 1 is very short. About 3-5 minutes discussing the group interview with the remaining 5-7 minutes were completely open. FYI the group interview is really 35 minutes and the 1 on 1 is more like 10-12 minutes (they employ a stopwatch on their phones). The admissions fellow did not have prior access to the resumes, they will be seeing it for the first time when you are right infront of them so be aware of this.

Also key point, bring copies of your resume to the interview. When you sign in they ask for a copy, this is what they will be giving to your interviewer who will use it for the 1 on 1 and write notes on it. - aalba005

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Applicant | Interview Debrief
I had my HCM interview on campus before my TBD, and it was extremely conversational. It's definitely more about your goals, what motivates you, and why you're interested in healthcare than based off of your resume. No tough behavioral questions (i.e., "tell me about a time when..."), it's just a friendly conversation about why you're passionate about healthcare. I don't even think there was a "Why Wharton HCM" question - I had to weave it into the conversation. June is very friendly and I think just wants to get to know you better. I've heard that she does have some pull in the admissions committee, though, so I wouldn't underestimate it. - sp67

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Applicant | Interview Debrief
AprilJean wrote:
interviewed this afternoon and it went well. For future interviews my recommendation is not to over prepare for your group discussion and be yourself during one on one. Individual questions are much based on the tone of group discussion so it's hard to prepare ahead of time.


After having my interview, I could not agree more. If you over prepare, you will end up being fixated on one idea. It is more important that the team performs well rather than your idea being more awesome and the ideas of the others. The 1on1 portion is pretty short and generally about how the team-based discussion went.

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Applicant | Application
schrodinger wrote:
Hey guys... kind of a random question but does anyone know what purpose is served by the "parents' information" on the application? I didn't fill it out when I was applying to Wharton (R1) because I wasn't sure what the information is used for. Does that information hurt/help you, for example, if you have an alumnus parent? or if your parents are billionaire CEO's? I'm just very confused by the relevance, since most people applying to business school are definitely no longer dependents of their parents...


It could also be that your parents did not attend college yet you were able to succeed academically and professionally (Not saying you need to attend college to be successful but they do also ask what occupation your parents are in which could be used as a proxy most likely). I doubt admissions pay too much attention to your parents information though.

Also to the point that you are no longer dependent on your parents, if you happen to come from a family that is educated and have successful professional careers then the likelihood for you to have academic and professional success is quite high.

Also just an interesting New York times piece on generational income mobility in the US. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/busin ... eral&_r=2& scroll down to the info graphic "Chances of Ending Up in the Top Fifth, For a Child ..." for some interesting analysis.

Of coarse this is just my personal conjecture. - aalba005

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Applicant | Application
I think the point is to get a fuller picture of who you are. Are you the first gen graduate who went through college despite the odds, or do you come from a well educated background where your parents, grandparents all went to the same college as you did.

Is one better than the other? I don't think so, but it gives context to the stories you tell in your essay and the professional path you have taken so far.

Or maybe they don't bother with it at all lol - feniris

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Applicant | Application
firsttimer2 wrote:
I can't seem to cut down my resume to 1-page without losing impact (due to longer work experience than average). The app says "one page only". I think I'll take a chance with 1.5 page and know soon enough if it was a mistake.
Would going to 10-pt Times font and less than 1" margins be too small?

Has anyone found a way yet to print the complete app prior to getting to the stage of "submit application"?


I would HIGHLY recommend not breaking the rules of the application. They ask for 1 page for many reasons, and one of them is simply because companies don't want to see more than 1. You need to be able to present yourself in a clear, concise manner in business, and this is a test of your ability to do that. I used to work for a top consulting company, and one of my bosses would toss every resume >1 page in the trash without even reading it, saying "I have 20 years of experience at 4 different companies and 3 degrees. If I can fit my resume on one page, this kid should be able to also."

At Wharton especially this is important - Wharton has their specific template guideline that they require of students to get in the resume book, so you might as well start adhering to it now. Here it is:
http://mbacareers.wharton.upenn.edu/stu ... ts0809.doc

It helped me a lot to have other people read over my resume, pointing out areas that were too wordy, unclear, or simply unimportant.

Good luck! - Biscix1

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Applicant | Application
Good luck to all R2 applicants. I read some questions through the forum, so will try to summarize-
1) HTML version of the application usually cuts-off some parts. You will get a chance to review the PDF before you submit
2) Does not matter whether you upload resume/essays in word or pdf, the system converts it to pdf (though may be better to upload pdf to preserve your formatting).
3) I had some sections that showed-up in the pdf but were not their in the application. I called the admission office to clarify, so depending on which questions are these, you may wish to check with admissions. - Diver

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Applicant | Interview Prep
snickerdoodle wrote:
MBAUnderDOG wrote:
flyerrhappy wrote:
Can we bring computers or pad in TBD?


No you can't bring computers. They provide pens, paper, a table and chairs. That's about it.

Posted from my mobile device


What about research/info we found?

Posted from my mobile device


You can bring a folder I guess. Honestly, I didn't need any of the notes I used to prep. If your proposal is not chosen, the research and info is not important. I would also shy away from over preparing because you do not want to completely dominate the conversation. The goal of the TBD is to come together and find a solution to a problem/task. - Biscix1

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Applicant | Interview Debrief
Did my interview yesterday. The TBD is very relaxed. There is NO need to stress over this. I literally prepped my 'idea' in the five minutes before the discussion. You have 1 minute or so to present your idea, so nothing complex. The rest is just about being a friendly teammate and contributing to the ongoing conversation. If you stress about this, you are going to hurt yourself way more than help yourself.

The 1 on 1 interview is VERY short. You are always asked "what role did you play in the TBD?" and then "how does that compare to the role you typically play?". Then there is room for one more question, which for me was "Why Wharton?". Keep in mind that these are with 2nd year students, so not high pressure and probably not huge influence on the admissions decision. - DSGB

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MBA Expert | Interview Prep
Good and helpful post from ConsultingorBust on his/her blog: http://www.mbadataguru.com/blog/admissi ... questions/ summarizing the most common Wharton interview questions. - bb

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Applicant | Interview Attire
mampy9 wrote:
I'm attending the Singapore cocktail event and am also part of the 9:30AM TBD on the 28th.

To anyone who has gone to previous TBD cocktail events - are these business formal events or should you dress a bit more casually (tie/no tie?)?


I dressed fairly formally, tie and suit (but then I'm in the financial industry and came straight from work), as did quite a few others, but some came in business casual. Use your judgment, and the usual rule applies (better to be slightly overdressed than slightly underdressed). - ktlee1981

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Wharton Alumnus | MBA Budget
Desley1 wrote:
MBAUnderDOG wrote:
laohu wrote:
Guys, how much does Wharton MBA cost for class of 2016? No clear answer for 2016 below and conflicting data. Anyone know?

http://www.wharton.upenn.edu/mba/financ ... ummary.cfm
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... a-rankings
http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/ra ... arton.html


estimated 1st year budget is $99,830. This includes $68,075 in tuition and fees.


Just to confirm this mean in total one should expect ard Usd 200k for the full MBA program right? Thanks in advance

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


You should expect to spend well over $200k. The Wharton budget is a joke and everything on campus is VERY expensive. For instance, we just had Follies which is the annual talent show and they charge students upwards of $80 per ticket. Every conference, club or event that you attend will cost somewhere between $30 - $150 and if you don't spend the money, you will miss out on the Wharton experience. The only value that Wharton offers is cheaper housing (relative to NYC / Boston / SF), otherwise, stuff here is pretty expensive. - jcswinterpark

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Applicant | Interview Prep
mkz212 wrote:
Anyone have an idea of how important the TBD is to your overall application? Can you do horrible and still get in? Also can you do really well and still get dinged? Curious to hear your thoughts..


Take it as it is: just personal speculations.
I think that it would make no sense to invest in organizing TBDs worldwide to not consider this piece within the whole picture. Additionally, based on my TBD I think that it is a very brilliant way to figure out if an applicant can be a successful and integrated student. So I think that performing horribly might indeed rise a red flag. On the other side, why should they ding you if you do really well? They would never invite you to interview if your profile was so weak that not even a great TBD could play in your favor.
What I do think is that the single 1-on-1 interview is just an additional check, but I can't really see how those 10/15 minutes can make it or break it.

So, my personal opinion is that the TBD is a crucial part, and that both those two extremes are unlikely to happen.
Of course the point here is: how do we assess if we did "well" or "horribly" in terms of Wharton's perspective? - schedir

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Applicant | Application
EnemyInside wrote:
Friends,

I am an international applicant. does it makes sense to apply in round 3? . I have 3 years of solid social enterprise management experience.


Round 3 is tricky. If you are a normal, strong candidate, I think the answer is hell no. Most of the class is full and there are plenty of strong candidates on the waiting list. If you are an Indian male with a finance background, good GMAT, good extracurriculars, etc., you are probably not a great Round 3 applicant. If you started an NGO to promote literacy in Africa, while competing in international fencing competitions and battling near-fatal scoliosis, then there is no reason for you not to apply round 3.

Basically there absolutely people who get accepted Round 3, but when you apply late in the cycle, you have to clear a higher bar. Not only is the question "Is this candidate Wharton material?" but you have the added challenge of "Does this candidate add something to our admissions class?" A Round 3 candidate not only has to be impressive, but have a complete package, a story, a niche, etc.

As someone who applied to some schools final round a couple cycles ago, I would advise against it (unless you are certain that you are a unique candidate and that you can articulate that unique story) for one major reason. If you apply final Round, you find out your fate so late in the game, and then you really have only a few months before it's time to apply Round 1 in the next cycle. Based on my experience, I think, the adcoms really look for growth from one application to the other that is almost impossible to show in such a short period of time. (I personally think I blew my shot at my top choice school that way.)

So while I can't say 100% "Don't do it!", I suggest that you consider your candidacy very carefully and take into account the risk involved. - LSnyder876

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Funny stuff posted by applicants in desperation.

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Important Posts from Wharton Class of 2016 Discussion   [#permalink] 12 Apr 2015, 22:59
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