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In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was

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In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was [#permalink]

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In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes, the opposite pole to civilization, an obscure and unimaginable place that was considered the end of the world.

(A) before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes
(B) before there was Australia, it was the antipodes
(C) it was the antipodes that was Australia
(D) Australia was what was the antipodes
(E) Australia was what had been known as the antipodes
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

Last edited by Bunuel on 21 May 2017, 03:04, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was [#permalink]

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New post 10 Mar 2009, 04:46
Australia cant be "the opposite pole to civilization"-->hence C OUT
E-out due to past perfect tense--WRONG
B-changes MEANING -->as if ANTIPODES came up before AUSTRALIA etc
D--also does not make much sense..others may add further

kaushik04 wrote:
In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes, the opposite pole to civilization, an obscure and unimaginable place that was considered the end of the world.
(A) before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes
(B) before there was Australia, it was the antipodes
(C) it was the antipodes that was Australia
(D) Australia was what was the antipodes
(E) Australia was what had been known as the antipodes

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Re: In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was [#permalink]

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New post 11 Mar 2009, 01:52
nitya34 wrote:
Australia cant be "the opposite pole to civilization"-->hence C OUT
E-out due to past perfect tense--WRONG
B-changes MEANING -->as if ANTIPODES came up before AUSTRALIA etc
D--also does not make much sense..others may add further

kaushik04 wrote:
In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes, the opposite pole to civilization, an obscure and unimaginable place that was considered the end of the world.
(A) before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes
(B) before there was Australia, it was the antipodes
(C) it was the antipodes that was Australia
(D) Australia was what was the antipodes
(E) Australia was what had been known as the antipodes



I don't understand what the SC is trying to convey. Why Australia cant be "the opposite pole to civilization"?
Are you rejecting C for logical reasons?
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Re: In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was [#permalink]

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New post 11 Mar 2009, 02:41
Modifier issue
...that was Australia,the opposite pole to..
check the right side of underlined portion
YogaGirl wrote:
nitya34 wrote:
Australia cant be "the opposite pole to civilization"-->hence C OUT
E-out due to past perfect tense--WRONG
B-changes MEANING -->as if ANTIPODES came up before AUSTRALIA etc
D--also does not make much sense..others may add further

kaushik04 wrote:
In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes, the opposite pole to civilization, an obscure and unimaginable place that was considered the end of the world.
(A) before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes
(B) before there was Australia, it was the antipodes
(C) it was the antipodes that was Australia
(D) Australia was what was the antipodes
(E) Australia was what had been known as the antipodes



I don't understand what the SC is trying to convey. Why Australia cant be "the opposite pole to civilization"?
Are you rejecting C for logical reasons?

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Re: In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was [#permalink]

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New post 18 Mar 2009, 11:49
I think this sentence has pronoun errors...

In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes, the opposite pole to civilization, an obscure and unimaginable place that was considered the end of the world.
(A) before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes
- IMO - atleast "it" has reference "Australia" - verb is ok - so ostensibly good
(B) before there was Australia, it was the antipodes
- "there" means where? Reference issue
(C) it was the antipodes that was Australia
- May be "it" is referring to England (which is actually wrong) but "that" has no reference
(D) Australia was what was the antipodes
- what was antipodes?? What has no clear reference
(E) Australia was what had been known as the antipodes
- "had been" - past perfect+passive!!
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Re: In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was [#permalink]

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In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes, the opposite pole to civilization, an obscure and unimaginable place that was considered the end of the world.
(A) before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes
(B) before there was Australia, it was the antipodes
(C) it was the antipodes that was Australia
(D) Australia was what was the antipodes
(E) Australia was what had been known as the antipodes

Background : Australia was discovered after a very long time on Earth and England used to refer Australia as the opposite pole to civilization - i.e. opposite to North Pole. Antipodes means the opposite pole i.e. South Pole. Australia was considered obscure, unimaginable place and end of the world.

Now back to SC.

B : "there" is considered passive in gmat. OUT
C : antipodes was not Australia. There is a meaning change. antipodes and Australia are not interchangeable. OUT
D : what is an awkward way to refer to Australia. OUT
E : what is an awkward way to refer to Australia. OUT

A : means that before Australia was known, it was called the antipodes. Bulls eye.

Hence A
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Re: In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was [#permalink]

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You've done a good job working out the intended meaning! Now, let's get comfortable with the grammatical issues in play:


In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes, the opposite pole to civilization, an obscure and unimaginable place that was considered the end of the world.
(A) before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes
(B) before there was Australia, it was the antipodes
(C) it was the antipodes that was Australia
(D) Australia was what was the antipodes
(E) Australia was what had been known as the antipodes

A. "before Australia was Australia," means, "before the land mass was a country." "it was the antipodes" means, "Australia was the antipodes."

B. "before there was Australia" means that, at one time, there was no such place. But the place has always existed; it has just been considered something different, namely, the end of the world.

C. There are no grammatical issues here-- only the meaning is incorrect. "It was the antipodes that was Australia" is a structure that creates emphasis. For example, "It polluters, not consumers, that are the problem." "It is price levels, rather than supply and demand, that reflect consumer attitudes." But this sentence did not intend to emphasize that it was the antipodes (as opposed to something else) that was Australia.


D. Again, just he meaning is wrong. "Australia was what was the antipodes" means that Australia was something that the antipodes once was as well. (Sound like gibberish? That's because it is gibberish!)

E. "Australia was what had been known as the antipodes" indicates that Australia is no longer the thing that had previously been thought to be the antipodes. The past simple ('was') indicates that the action is over. But Australia still is the land that once was thought to be the antipodes.

Certainly one of the more challenging questions!

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Re: In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jun 2010, 02:07
Hi SaraiGMAXonline

Please clarify if this understanding is correct

1. I think B and D have the same problem - Australia = antipode and vice-versa. Making the terms interchangeable. OUT

2. Between A and C. C is OUT since it does not have a "contradiction" right??

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Re: In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jun 2010, 02:26
Sarai

Can you clarify what does the 'if' in red refer to?

In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes, the opposite pole to civilization, an obscure and unimaginable place that was considered the end of the world.

Can you please discuss some approach for finding the antecedents for the pronouns?
I used to be confident about these errors but not any more.

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Hi nusmavrik-- yes, although i'm not sure what you mean by "contradiction", you seem to have understood the problem with B and D.

Regarding C, I forgot to mention one more grammatical note! Always, when the words after the underlined portion are descriptive, whatever those words describe must be the last word in your answer. Thus, only an answer ending with "antipodes" can be correct.


papillon86 wrote:
papillon86


Hi papillon86, your question plagues many GMAT students! The"it" in red refers to Australia.

There are two ways to use "it".

1) "It" can be used a general subject that only acts as a place-holder and does not refer to anything.

Ex. It is raining. / It is cold outside. / It was nice of you to come. / It is the red pen, not the black pen, that I want.

Compare those sentences to the following: "If you read every day, it will help you on the exam." This sentence is INCORRECT. Can you tell why? When you say, "It will help you," you mean that there is SOMETHING that will help you. The 'something' is the referent that must appear in the sentence for the sentence to be correct. In the sentence, "it is raining," there is no THING that is raining. "It" here is just holding the place of subject since English demands that every verb have a subject.

So you just have to ask yourself whether there is a THING that does the verb whose subject is "it". If there is no THING, then you don't need a referent.

Let me know if this is still confusing to you.

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Re: In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jun 2010, 04:30
One more GMAX tip for pronoun reference: ALWAYS REPLACE THE PRONOUN WITH THE WORD YOU THINK IT MEANS AS YOU READ.

In this way you can 'hear' whether your "it" is trying to refer to something. This is also how you check for singular/plural/and presence of a referent as you go.
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Re: In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jun 2010, 05:30
Hi Sarai

You rock. thanks a lot for the useful tips.

Can I say that C is inference in the reverse direction??? - when it should emphasize that Australia was antipodes before the island was country.

Regarding C, I forgot to mention one more grammatical note! Always, when the words after the underlined portion are descriptive, whatever those words describe must be the last word in your answer. Thus, only an answer ending with "antipodes" can be correct.
If i get this point correct then -

The sentence is describing antipodes, so it has to be the last word in the answer. Am I correct??

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Re: In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jun 2010, 07:40
nusmavrik wrote:
Hi Sarai

You rock. thanks a lot for the useful tips.

Can I say that C is inference in the reverse direction??? - when it should emphasize that Australia was antipodes before the island was country.

Regarding C, I forgot to mention one more grammatical note! Always, when the words after the underlined portion are descriptive, whatever those words describe must be the last word in your answer. Thus, only an answer ending with "antipodes" can be correct.
If i get this point correct then -

The sentence is describing antipodes, so it has to be the last word in the answer. Am I correct??

Thanks


Hi nusmavrik,

Yes, "the opposite pole..." describes the antipodes. You got it:)

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Re: In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was [#permalink]

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New post 11 Oct 2011, 05:30
I think i have a better explanation to this:

From MGMAT SC guide pg.73

7. The players' helmets need to be repainted before they are used in Sunday's game.
CORRECT.
Helmets is the antecedent of they. You need not worry that they could refer to players', because (1)helmets is closer to they, and
(2) players' is a possessive noun, and is therefore not a good antecedent
for a pronoun in the subjective case(they)- Recall the Poisons Rule.

Similarly in the question above the first half "In the minds of many people living in England" is in the possessive form.
Minds of X the X= people living in England, acts as one long subject.

Hence, it can refer only to Australia.
Therefore the construction in (A) is correct.

Coming to
(E) Australia was what had been known as the antipodes
the "had been known" is improperly used here. You DO NOT need a "had been", which is a past perfect since we are not talking about any event that occurred in the past before another event.

Hope this clears things up :)
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Btw, the question is from OG (10th ed) - SC - #43
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Re: In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was [#permalink]

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New post 23 Dec 2011, 07:29
SaraiGMAXonline wrote:
You've done a good job working out the intended meaning! Now, let's get comfortable with the grammatical issues in play:


In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes, the opposite pole to civilization, an obscure and unimaginable place that was considered the end of the world.
(A) before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes
(B) before there was Australia, it was the antipodes
(C) it was the antipodes that was Australia
(D) Australia was what was the antipodes
(E) Australia was what had been known as the antipodes

A. "before Australia was Australia," means, "before the land mass was a country." "it was the antipodes" means, "Australia was the antipodes."

B. "before there was Australia" means that, at one time, there was no such place. But the place has always existed; it has just been considered something different, namely, the end of the world.

C. There are no grammatical issues here-- only the meaning is incorrect. "It was the antipodes that was Australia" is a structure that creates emphasis. For example, "It polluters, not consumers, that are the problem." "It is price levels, rather than supply and demand, that reflect consumer attitudes." But this sentence did not intend to emphasize that it was the antipodes (as opposed to something else) that was Australia.


D. Again, just he meaning is wrong. "Australia was what was the antipodes" means that Australia was something that the antipodes once was as well. (Sound like gibberish? That's because it is gibberish!)

E. "Australia was what had been known as the antipodes" indicates that Australia is no longer the thing that had previously been thought to be the antipodes. The past simple ('was') indicates that the action is over. But Australia still is the land that once was thought to be the antipodes.

Certainly one of the more challenging questions!

-Sarai

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Great explanation, thanks Sarai.

I chose A for a different reason: I just removed the part 'before Australia was Australia' and found no error in the given sentence. Now I understand, just by chance I got it correct because, if we go with my approach, sentence meaning totally changes where the word 'antipodes' gains more emphasis rather than 'Australia'.

Thanks once again.
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Re: In the mind of many people living in England, before Australia was [#permalink]

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New post 22 Aug 2015, 02:50
dkumar2012 wrote:
In the mind of many people living in England, before Australia was Australia, it was antipodes, the opposite pole to civilization, an obscure and unimaginable place that was considered the end of the world.

A) before Australia was Australia, it was antipodes,
B) before there was Australia, it was antipodes
C) it was antipodes that was Australia
D) Australia was what was the antipodes
E) Australia was what had been known as the antipodes
Pillarsofcreation wrote:
Can somebdy please explain this?


This is an official question, but it needs a few corrections (mind needs to be minds, we need a the before antipodes, and the comma after antipodes should not be within the underlined bit).
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Re: In the mind of many people living in England, before Australia was [#permalink]

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New post 24 Aug 2015, 02:34
Question "In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was Australia, it was the antipodes, the opposite pole to civilization, an obscure and unimaginable place that was considered the end of the world."


In many tricky Official SC, Meaning is key to solve it. It may happen that one option is absolutely right from grammar point of view, but it might be wrong from meaning point of view.

Lets do it from meaning way !!

Meaning :
1. English people has some view regarding Australia.
2. View is "Before that country (Australia) became Australia, It (that country) was antipodes.

Error analysis :
let take one example, if i want to say "before this forum became gmat club, it was just an website"
I can say it in way "Before Gmat club was Gmat club, it was just an website" - correct ... we are taking about GC in some reference of time.

There is not subject verb error or pronoun error, Option A is correct as is.

in this case, we should find either some objection to or error in rest 4 options to make it sure.

Let Do POE

B) before there was Australia, it was the antipodes
" Before that was australia " this phrase changes meaning. we wanted to say "before X was X" this option says "Before there was X"
Incorrect

C) it was antipodes that was Australia
Complete sentence with option C
"In the minds of many people living in England, it was antipodes that was Australia, the opposite pole to civilization, an obscure and unimaginable place that was considered the end of the world."
this option seems to create the different meaning, it says australia is the opposite pole to civilization. this is not true, we wanted to say, earlier version of austrlia was opposite to civilisation.

Incorrect - change of meaning


D) Australia was what was the antipodes
Australia was "what was the antipodes" - it is weird way to say. we can say, australia was antipodes. - Incorrect


E) Australia was what had been known as the antipodes
Same error as Option D. What had been is incorrect construction.
Option a is far better than any 4 option.
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Re: In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was [#permalink]

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New post 20 May 2017, 02:41
Based on the reasoning given above isn't A and D similar in meaning ??
Re: In the minds of many people living in England, before Australia was   [#permalink] 20 May 2017, 02:41
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