Is 620 a no-go for the top 20 ? opinions appreciated...

Question

Is GMAT 620 (Q 39 V 35) an absolute no-go for any school in the top 20 ?

I guess I know the answer but still want to make one last effort and kill the stupid doubt in my mind.
My profile : Indian working in the US, Non IT, 6 years w.e. , lot of community work with extra curricular stuff.

I still have a month and half before most R2 deadlines.None of my apps. are ready.Should I bother re-taking GMAT in a month and rush through the applications or should I re-take GMAT next year and apply for fall 2103 instead ?

Your opinion is much appreciated!

bakfed · Answer

I think you know what the answers are.

It's really about reducing risk, right? A 750 doesn't guarantee admission, but the probabily of getting admitted to a top school is significantly higher than a 620. A 620 doesn't automatically land yourself in the rejection file, but you will for sure have zero chance of getting if you don't apply. I personally know of people who are at Darden with a sub-650 score. You're going to have to make the final decision. There's always a chance, but just depends on how much money you have when it comes to applying. Lastly, it's more than just a GMAT score that will get you in. It depends on everything else as well. Sorry that this is not the answer you're looking for (or maybe it is) but it's impossible to judge whether someone will get in or not based on one score.

(your chances become even slimmer simply because most of the Indian population will have over 700 on GMAT).

Zynga · Answer

Thanks that helps a lot, but I am curious about how adcoms look at re-applicants.
I mean I can take a risk and apply but if I end up with a ding this year, would that be a red flag on my application next year?

bakfed · Answer

As far I know, reapplicants are not frowned upon; in fact, a good chunk of the class is made up of reapplicants. But you do bring up a good point - reapplicants will certainly have to show improvements in their "something" (i.e. GMAT, work experience, leadership) in their second application. In addition, there's an essay that reapplicants will typically have to write, stating what reapplicants have changed. Besides these additional work, there's really nothing else that is different (and of course, the additional money one has to shell out to apply to schools).

bb · Answer

I have looked through the 80% GMAT scores range for the top 50 schools and the ones that have 620 or below as the lower range are: Tepper, Goisueta, UNC, Cornell, IMD, McCombs, Owen, ESADE, Ivey, Smith, Krannert, Kelley, Rotman, Broad.

So, these are your potential candidates. Can you see yourself in one of those schools - if yes, then I think you have what it takes to get on the list.

bakfed · Answer

I agree with bb. One thing I forgot to explicitly say is that while top 20 may be a bit harder, top 50 schools will definitely put you in the range.

Zynga · Answer

I am sure that with some more effort on my part I should be able to get very close to 700.
I am more concerned about the age factor.I am 30 now and if I apply next year would 31 years of age be a negative factor for my admit chances.

Also, aren't post-MBA salaries mostly dependent on school rankings ? ( I am talking wrt consulting here )

iamgame · Answer

Age is definately a factor for the US schools...who are more and more moving towards the younger bracket. But I am in the same boat as you are. I turned 31 yesterday..

and I shall be applying next year to most of the European schools..Keeping my fingers crossed..but as someone said above....Not applying will guarantee that you dont get admitted...

bakfed · Answer

rankings will get you to a certain range of salary, sure. But once you are above a certain threshold (which I can't tell you what the threshold is), it doesn't matter if you're at harvard or at UCLA Anderson, your consulting salary will be very similar. One thing I want to caution you about is if you're gearing for consulting, that's more reason for you to retake your GMAT. A 620 is going to be extremely hard for you to make it into a consulting firm that has a generalist approach. I'm sure at a top 30-50 range of school, there are some more niche consulting that will care less about GMAT, but if you're gearing up for big consulting firms (i.e. mckinsey, bcg, bain, deloitte, kearney, accenture...list goes on for a few more), a 620 will be almost too hard to get in.

Zynga · Answer

Do consulting firms look at your GMAT score while recruiting ?

bakfed · Answer

while recruiting? no. while you're applying to the firms? yes. And even during recruiting, consulting firms will still have access to your resume by simply purchasing a resume book through the career center or MBAFocus (which compiles resumes for b-schools).

I'm not trying to discourage you here; I'm simply trying to let you know what has been passed down through the years. Firms such as McKinsey care very much about your GMAT scores. Deloitte, on the other hand, will care less than McKinsey. However, I have not personally known anyone who got in the mentioned firms in my previous reply at Darden.

Zynga · Answer

discourage..oh not at all ! 
on the contrary all this advice from you is absolutely golden.I really appreciate the help.

Darden was infact one of the "lucky chance" applications I was going to try for as mentioned above. But if my GMAT score will hurt me in the long run when searching for a job, even if I was extremely lucky to get an admit, I would rather not take any chances and would apply with a better score next year.

bakfed · Answer

Just so we're clear, what I said about the GMAT and job search had to do with consulting and consulting only. I can't speak of any other industries as I'm not recruiting for those; however, I haven't heard anyone who told me that GMAT matters when it comes to other industries (maybe excluding ibanking from the vast industries out there).

BlueRobin · Answer

Take my advice with a grain of common sense.

You have a 620, and surely if you tried you can get to a 700+, many people do, its not magic, but certainly is not easy.

The fact is as an international, schools wont look at our file with a score less than 700. No school will admit to this, and its NOT a bias case.

You have to understand that internationals represent only maximum 30% in the top 30 schools, so if you take for instance Cornell, which has 200 odd students, Internationals are 60 people. Narrow it down to Asia, its only 13% = 26. Now Asia includes, India(4),China(5), Japan(4), Indonesia(3), Malaysia(3), and others(7).

Of the 2600 applicants, If there are 200 applicants from India, and 40 of them have 740+ GMAT, then for the four places, you are competing againist 40 of them. If they filled out two and remaining spots are two, then they will search in the next 700+ range.

It might not be a perfect figure, and I get there are ohhh so many variables that come into play, but you get the point. Dont be too hard on yourself, because even if you have a 750, there is no guarantee that one may get into Cornell or Darden or another school.

Most importantly, decide what is that you want, do you want to apply and try in Banking or Consulting(its not fun travelling on the plane), then you might need a 700+ score, but if you will be more happy in a manager, marketing role, then GMAT is not such an issue.

You can get loads of scholarships from schools, which might see other strengths in you, so if you think you have a strong profile, go ahead, attempt to a few schools in Top 20, Top 40, Top 60. You have hardly anything to lose, you might get some scholarships from Top 40 or Top 60 schools, based on your profile.

If you like it take it, if not then apply next year.

Zynga · Answer

Kudos! @bakfed and @BlueRobin for your posts !

Zynga · Answer

Thats good to know. My focus is consulting and from what I have heard and read ( Stacy Blackman also emphasizes this in her guide : https://www.stacyblackman.com/free-branding-guide/ ) is that your "Brand Value" matters significantly not just for getting into an b-school but also for finding a good job after your MBA. I dont want this 620 on the GMAT to handicap my profile for the rest of my MBA journey.

ruturajp · Answer

For these below universities do u really think that above 620 is enough:

Tepper, Goisueta, UNC, Cornell, IMD, McCombs, Owen, ESADE, Ivey, Smith, Krannert, Kelley, Rotman, Broad.

rjkaufman21 · Answer

Bakfed, can you tell me a bit more about the resume books that schools compile? Do all students put their GMAT scores in the resumes that they submit to the career center? And if so, are they compelled to do so by the school or is that just the norm? Also, are students able to view other students resumes? Thank you.

thugly921 · Answer

It is not impossible, but you will need to have a very competitive GPA to show you can handle the workload of a top program, this is the main reason schools evaluate GPA and GMAT. Your quant score is especially low which is a red flag for many schools, if you can up that to something in the 70-75% range you will be more competitive, but my bad news is that I do not see you getting into any of the top 20 schools with this profile.

If you can take a practice test and see your score go up be even 30-40 points, it is worth taking the test again. You can decide your target schools, get your recommenders their forms, and study for the test in the next 20 days. Then you can spend 20-30 days on apps. With this score, I don't think you are the middle 50% with any school. Again, this is speculation based on not knowing your grades so I may be way off. M7 I think will be difficult even with a 650 (but not impossible), schools in the 15-20 range will be attainable.

bakfed · Answer

I can only speak of Darden's experience. Students put their GMAT scores if they feel that it will help. General rule of thumb for consulting is: if you have a 700 or above, put it on. You certainly do not need to put your GMAT score, but eventually firms will find out because when you're applying, they will ask for GMAT score to be inputted. And yes, students are able to view everyone else's resume who has submited resumes to MBAFocus (I would say 99% of students submit it).

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