Author 
Message 
TAGS:

Hide Tags

Intern
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 20

Is rst = 1 ? [#permalink]
Show Tags
10 Feb 2010, 12:43
1
This post received KUDOS
24
This post was BOOKMARKED
Question Stats:
71% (00:51) correct 29% (00:44) wrong based on 1314 sessions
HideShow timer Statistics
Is rst = 1 ? (1) rs = 1 (2) st = 1
Official Answer and Stats are available only to registered users. Register/ Login.
Last edited by Bunuel on 07 Dec 2012, 09:01, edited 1 time in total.
Renamed the topic and edited the question.



Senior Manager
Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Posts: 428
Location: United States (MA)

Re: GMAT Paper test  Test Code 14 [#permalink]
Show Tags
10 Feb 2010, 12:56
Answer: "E" : Both statements not sufficient
Reason: (plugging in method)
Statement 1: Say r = 1/3 and s = 3
satisfies statement 1 i.e. rs = 1 but cant comment about value of rst as t is still unknown.
Statement 2: Say t = 1/3 and s = 3
satisfies statement 1 i.e. st = 1 but cant comment about value of rst as t is still unknown.
Now if both statements are taken together, r=1/3 s=3 and t=1/3 => rst not equal to 1.
hence both the statements are not sufficient.



Intern
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 20

Re: GMAT Paper test  Test Code 14 [#permalink]
Show Tags
10 Feb 2010, 13:21
1
This post received KUDOS
piyatiwari wrote: Answer: "E" : Both statements not sufficient
Now if both statements are taken together, r=1/3 s=3 and t=1/3 => rst not equal to 1.
hence both the statements are not sufficient. But from your response above combining the two statements tells us conclusively that rst not eqaul to 1. Therefore combining the two statements is sufficient to answer the question as a 'NO'. So shouldn't the answer be 'C'



Senior Manager
Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Posts: 428
Location: United States (MA)

Re: GMAT Paper test  Test Code 14 [#permalink]
Show Tags
10 Feb 2010, 13:51
loki wrote: piyatiwari wrote: Answer: "E" : Both statements not sufficient
Now if both statements are taken together, r=1/3 s=3 and t=1/3 => rst not equal to 1.
hence both the statements are not sufficient. But from your response above combining the two statements tells us conclusively that rst not eqaul to 1. Therefore combining the two statements is sufficient to answer the question as a 'NO'. So shouldn't the answer be 'C' Oh yes. My usual mistake . Thanks so much Loki. This goes directly to my error log. So the answer is "C"



Math Expert
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 44383

Re: GMAT Paper test  Test Code 14 [#permalink]
Show Tags
10 Feb 2010, 13:56
7
This post received KUDOS
Expert's post
4
This post was BOOKMARKED



Manager
Joined: 09 Dec 2009
Posts: 119

OG DS 95, explain how my logic is wrong [#permalink]
Show Tags
14 Feb 2010, 11:19
Ok, without a doubt my number property skills are my achillies heel when is comes to GMAT quant. I was reviewing my error log today. Tell me why my logic is wrong. 95. Is rst=1 (1) rs=1 (2) st=1 I attacked it by rearranging the original equations, dividing both sides by t. so, rs=1/t then sub in rs=1 so, 1=1/t then cross multiply t=1 Combined with what we already know (rs=1) we have 1*1=1 Therefore, sufficient. Same logic can be applied to statment 2. Therefore my answer was D. OA is actually E and I understand how they got it, but I also fail to see why my strategy was wrong. I feel like I'm probably overlooking some basic rule that governs all equations here but if someone could help me out that'd be great. Thanks
_________________
G.T.L.  GMAT, Tanning, Laundry
Round 1: 05/12/10 http://gmatclub.com/forum/handlingagrenadethesituationsofficialdebrief94181.html
Round 2: 07/10/10  This time it's personal.



Senior Manager
Joined: 22 Dec 2009
Posts: 350

Re: OG DS 95, explain how my logic is wrong [#permalink]
Show Tags
14 Feb 2010, 11:34
5
This post received KUDOS
2
This post was BOOKMARKED
Currency wrote: Ok, without a doubt my number property skills are my achillies heel when is comes to GMAT quant. I was reviewing my error log today. Tell me why my logic is wrong. 95. Is rst=1 (1) rs=1 (2) st=1 I attacked it by rearranging the original equations, dividing both sides by t. so, rs=1/tthen sub in rs=1 so, 1=1/t then cross multiply t=1 Combined with what we already know (rs=1) we have 1*1=1 Therefore, sufficient. Same logic can be applied to statment 2. Therefore my answer was D. OA is actually E and I understand how they got it, but I also fail to see why my strategy was wrong. I feel like I'm probably overlooking some basic rule that governs all equations here but if someone could help me out that'd be great. Thanks The highlighted part is the mistake. The question is asking u to prove that... and you are considering the same as True. This isnt the correct approach. The Answer E is correct... Is rst = 1? S1: rs = 1, t can be 2 ... then rst is not equal to 1... t can be 1... then rst is equal to 1... Hence IN SUFF S2: st =1 , r can be 2 ... then rst is not equal to 1.. r can be 1 .. then rst is equal to 1... Hence IN SUFF... combining I and 2... we can have .. r = 2, s = 1/2, t = 2 Then rst = 2 but we can also have r = 1, s = 1, t =1 Then rst = 1.. Hence E... Hope this helps!
_________________
Cheers! JT........... If u like my post..... payback in Kudos!!
Do not post questions with OAPlease underline your SC questions while postingTry posting the explanation along with your answer choice For CR refer Powerscore CR BibleFor SC refer Manhattan SC Guide
~~Better Burn Out... Than Fade Away~~



Director
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 526
WE 1: Investment Banking  6yrs

Re: OG DS 95, explain how my logic is wrong [#permalink]
Show Tags
14 Feb 2010, 11:36
Currency wrote: Ok, without a doubt my number property skills are my achillies heel when is comes to GMAT quant. I was reviewing my error log today. Tell me why my logic is wrong. 95. Is rst=1 (1) rs=1 (2) st=1 I attacked it by rearranging the original equations, dividing both sides by t. so, rs=1/t then sub in rs=1 so, 1=1/t then cross multiply t=1 Combined with what we already know (rs=1) we have 1*1=1 Therefore, sufficient. Same logic can be applied to statment 2. Therefore my answer was D. OA is actually E and I understand how they got it, but I also fail to see why my strategy was wrong. I feel like I'm probably overlooking some basic rule that governs all equations here but if someone could help me out that'd be great. Thanks Okay, you can really deal with this much simpler. But, let's review what you've done. I attacked it by rearranging the original equations, dividing both sides by t. so, rs=1/t your question then changes to  Is rs=1/t? 1. Does this give the vale of t? No. Even if you use (1), you get  1=1/t > t=1. Does this answer your question. No. A/D out 2. Similarly, does the value of st=1, help us in answering the question? No. B out Hope this helps.



Manager
Joined: 09 Dec 2009
Posts: 119

Re: OG DS 95, explain how my logic is wrong [#permalink]
Show Tags
14 Feb 2010, 11:41
Quote: "The question is asking u to prove that... and you are considering the same as True. This isnt the correct approach." This is what I was missing. Normally I'd instinctively follow that, but I think cause it was in my error log I overthought it and got fancy  effectively confusing myself. Ha! Thanks for the quick repsonses guys, much appreciated!
_________________
G.T.L.  GMAT, Tanning, Laundry
Round 1: 05/12/10 http://gmatclub.com/forum/handlingagrenadethesituationsofficialdebrief94181.html
Round 2: 07/10/10  This time it's personal.



Manager
Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 146

Re: OG DS 95, explain how my logic is wrong [#permalink]
Show Tags
15 Feb 2010, 06:32
1
This post received KUDOS
i) rs=1 r=1/3 s=3 and t=7 so ans is no r=1/3 s=3 and t=1 so ans is yes not suff.
ii) st=1 s=1/3 and t=3 and r=7 so ans is no r=1/3 s=3 and t=1 so ans is yes
not sufficient
combining both 1 and 2
s=1/3 r=3 and t=3 still it satisfies both eq but rst is not 1
if s=1 r=1 and t=1 it satisifies both eq. and rst is 1
so ans is E



Manager
Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Posts: 165

Re: Is rst=1? Statement 1: rs=1 Statement 2: st=1 [#permalink]
Show Tags
29 Nov 2011, 12:31
1
This post received KUDOS
i) rs=1 As we don't know anything about value of t so we cant answer if rst = 1. Insufficient.
ii) st=1 As we don't know anything about value of r so we cant answer if rst = 1. Insufficient.
Combining both 1 and 2
(rs)(st) = 1 (rst)s = 1 rst = 1/s
As we don't know the value of s. rst can be anything (1 or something else). we cannot answer "Is rst = 1?"
Insufficient Ans: E



Intern
Joined: 15 Nov 2012
Posts: 3

Re: Is rst = 1 ? [#permalink]
Show Tags
29 Dec 2012, 12:27
Its clear that 1 and 2 do not lead to a solution. then, Cant this be solved by observing that we have 2 equations and 3 unknown variables. hence not sufficient and hence E?



Math Expert
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 44383

Re: Is rst = 1 ? [#permalink]
Show Tags
30 Dec 2012, 07:34



Manager
Joined: 18 Oct 2011
Posts: 88
Location: United States
Concentration: Entrepreneurship, Marketing
GMAT Date: 01302013
GPA: 3.3

Re: Is rst = 1 ? [#permalink]
Show Tags
03 Jan 2013, 15:21
statement 1: don't know anything about t. not sufficient statement 2: don't know anything about r. not sufficient
put them together: rst could equal (1)(1)(1) in which case would be 1. or rst could equal (1/2)(2)(1/2) in which case rst = 1/2. Not sufficient
Answer: E



Manager
Joined: 26 Feb 2015
Posts: 123

Re: Is rst = 1 ? [#permalink]
Show Tags
04 May 2015, 04:56
2
This post received KUDOS
I found that the easiest way to tackle this problem was as following:
(A) rs = 1 means r and s have same sign. Make a chart:
r s + +  
Clearly not sufficient
(B)
st = 1 means s and t have same sign. Make a chart:
s t + +  
Clearly not sufficient
combined:
r s t + + +   
two different solutions: 1 or 1, hence (E)
Incredibly fast solution, took less than 15 seconds



eGMAT Representative
Joined: 04 Jan 2015
Posts: 878

Is rst = 1 ? [#permalink]
Show Tags
04 May 2015, 22:26
Going through the solutions posted by students in this thread, I realized that this question is a good illustration of the perils of 'solve by substituting numbers' approach. A student considered one set of possible values of r, s and t and thought that since he was able to get a tangible value of the product rst that was not equal to 1, this meant the 2 statements together were sufficient. It didn't occur to him at that time (later he did realize this oversight) that other values of r, s and t were also possible that did lead to rst = 1. To eliminate all this uncertainty about whether you've considered all possible sets of values for the different unknowns, I would like to suggest the algebraic way of thinking through this question. Here's how I would solve it: The question asks if rst = 1 (Note to self: it's not mentioned that r, s and t are integers. So, they might very well be fractions)
1. rs = 1 But t = ? Don't know
Insufficient
2. st = 1 But r = ? Don't know
Insufficient.
1 + 2
The question asks about the product rst. This product can be written as \(\frac{(rs)(st)}{s}\). Substituting the values of rs and st from St. 1 and 2, we get:
rst = \(\frac{(1)(1)}{s}\) = \(\frac{1}{s}\)
But s = ? Don't know
If s = 1, rst = 1 But if s = some other value, rst is not equal to 1.
So, clearly insufficient.
Answer: Option EI hope this alternate solution was helpful for you Best Regards Japinder
_________________
 '4 out of Top 5' Instructors on gmatclub  70 point improvement guarantee  www.egmat.com



Intern
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 3
Location: United States
WE: Analyst (Consumer Products)

Re: Is rst = 1 ? [#permalink]
Show Tags
30 Aug 2015, 16:18
1.) Tells us nothing about t  INS (eliminate A/D from grid) 2.) Tells us nothing about r  INS (eliminate B from grid)
Combined (left with C or E) r*s = 1 s*t = 1
a.) 1*1*1 = 1 True b.) 1/4 * 4 * 1/4 = 1 False
Therefore answer is E



Target Test Prep Representative
Status: Head GMAT Instructor
Affiliations: Target Test Prep
Joined: 04 Mar 2011
Posts: 2127

Re: Is rst = 1 ? [#permalink]
Show Tags
14 May 2016, 06:15
loki wrote: Is rst = 1 ?
(1) rs = 1 (2) st = 1 Solution: We need to determine whether RST = 1. Statement One Alone:RS = 1 Since we don’t know the value of T, knowing only that RS = 1 is not sufficient to determine whether RST = 1. We can eliminate answer choices A and D. Statement Two Alone:ST = 1 Since we don’t know the value of R, knowing only that ST = 1, is not sufficient to determine whether RST = 1. We can eliminate answer choice B. Statements One and Two Together:From statements one and two we know that RS = 1 and that ST = 1. Thus, we can say that: RS = ST RS – ST = 0 S(R – T) = 0 S = 0 or R = T Because RS and ST both equal 1, S cannot be 0. Thus, R = T. However, knowing that R = T is not enough information to determine whether RST = 1. For example, if R = T = 1, then S = 1 (since RS = 1 and ST = 1), RST = 1. However, if R = T = 2, then S = ½ (since RS = 1 and ST = 1), RST = 2 1. The answer is E.
_________________
Jeffery Miller
Head of GMAT Instruction
GMAT Quant SelfStudy Course
500+ lessons 3000+ practice problems 800+ HD solutions



SVP
Joined: 12 Sep 2015
Posts: 2154
Location: Canada

Re: Is rst = 1 ? [#permalink]
Show Tags
18 Nov 2017, 11:03
loki wrote: Is rst = 1 ?
(1) rs = 1 (2) st = 1 Target question: Is rst=1? Statement 1: rs = 1 No information about t INSUFFICIENT Statement 2: st = 1 No information about r INSUFFICIENT Statements 1 and 2 combined So, rs = 1 and st = 1 This means that rs/st = 1/1 Simplify to get r/t = 1 This tells us that r = t, so this is all that we can conclude one we combine the statements. If r = t, there are still several values of r, s and t that satisfy the both statements. Here are two: Case a: r = 1, s = 1 and t = 1, in which case rst = 1Case b: r = 0.5, s = 2 and t = 0.5, in which case rst = 0.5Since we cannot answer the target question with certainty, the combined statements are NOT SUFFICIENT Answer = E Cheers, Brent
_________________
Brent Hanneson – Founder of gmatprepnow.com



Manager
Joined: 02 Jan 2017
Posts: 88
Location: Pakistan
Concentration: Finance, Technology
GPA: 3.41
WE: Business Development (Accounting)

Re: Is rst = 1 ? [#permalink]
Show Tags
07 Dec 2017, 02:07
GMATPrepNow wrote: loki wrote: Is rst = 1 ?
(1) rs = 1 (2) st = 1 Target question: Is rst=1? Statement 1: rs = 1 No information about t INSUFFICIENT Statement 2: st = 1 No information about r INSUFFICIENT Statements 1 and 2 combined So, rs = 1 and st = 1 This means that rs/st = 1/1 Simplify to get r/t = 1 This tells us that r = t, so this is all that we can conclude one we combine the statements. If r = t, there are still several values of r, s and t that satisfy the both statements. Here are two: Case a: r = 1, s = 1 and t = 1, in which case rst = 1Case b: r = 0.5, s = 2 and t = 0.5, in which case rst = 0.5Since we cannot answer the target question with certainty, the combined statements are NOT SUFFICIENT Answer = E Cheers, Brent I would urge all experts on forums to provide solutions like this one, we are learning and often experts forget we need layman basic terminology to really grip the concepts. I have read all the solutions and at the end, i understood from this post. I have great respect for Bunnel, but man sometimes you forget that all do not share your level of expertise on this content. Using words helps us students a lot. Thank you for the post







Go to page
1 2
Next
[ 22 posts ]



