Phd In Accounting.... Straight from Undergrad

Question

I'm graduating with a BS in Accounting with a 4.0 in Accounting and a 3.8 overall. I have a 750 on the GMAT. My question is what are my odds of getting into a good PhD program without getting my MS? I'm specifically thinking about Duke and OSU, but what are the odds?

justlookup · Answer

Should I assume that having no reponses means everyone is too nice to say no chance?

air1980 · Answer

There is no reason why you could not get in without an MS. Your stats are good. There are two issues: 1) why do you want to do a PhD? If this answer is not to obtain a research career then you should not apply. 2) Undergraduate accounting degrees are light on math. You would have to take PhD level Micro and Econometrics, these are not simple courses and you need to be 'good' at calculus. If your math background is not great then this could be an issue for you.

All the websites indicate that a masters degree is not required.

All the websites indicate that a masters degree is not required.

justlookup · Answer

My real reason for wanting to do it is to teach college. I am very intrigued by some of my research intersts, and I would look forward to exploring them, but I really prefer to end up teaching primarily when it comes career time. As far as the math is concerned, I've done very very well at math, but I haven't taken a lot of advanced math. While I won't say that I look forward to it, I know econometrics comes into the proccess. I don't doubt my ability to learn the requisite math for the program. That is part of what intrigued me about Ohio State, as they straight forwardly say we expect you'll have to take some fundamental math.

So, would you (or anyone) venture a guess at my odds at Ohio State? Would I be better served by getting my MS first (I have a full ride offer from a top notch school but it seems to be more professional than academic program wise)?

So, would you (or anyone) venture a guess at my odds at Ohio State? Would I be better served by getting my MS first (I have a full ride offer from a top notch school but it seems to be more professional than academic program wise)?

air1980 · Answer

Your best bet is to contact Ohio State directly and ask them about this. Usually programs are quite open to talking to interested students.

I can't say what your odds are with getting in. My guess is that unless you can show that research is what you want to do then the odds are not great at a top program. But like I said, your stats are very good, so you never know.

Best of luck.

gregc1213 · Answer

A master's isn't really a requirement anywhere - it enhances your profile but not a requirement. The bigger issue I think coming from undergrad is maturity - not to say anyone is immature but having more life experience gives you a better idea of what you like and who you want to be. You say you are more interested in teaching than research but Ohio State and most top 50 schools have no interest in producing just teachers. They want to produce top-tier researchers so if you are honest with them in that respect, you will probably not get admitted at those schools and are better off going to a program without the research focus anyways. But a master's program or some work experience may help you discover you like the researching process more than you thought. If you are set on a teaching focus, then you will go to a specific type of school and limit your career choices so be sure that is the path you want before you go down it. Good luck though - you have great tangible stats.

justlookup · Answer

Thanks everyone so much for your responses. In my essay I concentrated (completely) on my interests for research. As far as life experience is concerned, I'm 29 so I can understand the changing view of things. Would anyone recommend a good school that puts more emphasis on producing teachers? Like I said I'm more than willing to do research in the program; I just expect that when I graduate I'll be more interesting in teaching than production of research.

gregc1213 · Answer

Sorry for the assumption that just graduating undergrad would put you in your early 20's. I do think at the end of the day though, if you are more interested in teaching in your career than a tenure track research position - be honest with programs. Faculty at top programs pride themselves on having their students be top researchers who get top placements. It's only fair to tell them your long-term goals upfront and not frame yourself as interested in that research track if you're not. As for good teaching programs, smaller doctoral programs have more of a teaching focus than top programs - go on the AAA doctoral program survey for some examples. Truthfully if you only want to teach at the end of the day, you would put yourself through a rigorous research program for no reason. Some top 25 programs have better teaching reps than others - i.e. UGA but as I said they would still expect you to focus on a tenure track research job upon graduation.

justlookup · Answer

Thanks for your honesty. I certainly wasn't interested in lying to anyone. I in fact had written the essay before I even posted here. I'll certainly take a look at more teaching central programs! Does anyone here know where I could find a list of schools that would be more teaching centered???

Sailorette · Answer

Tricky question! The best source I can think of is the list of schools participating in the Accounting Doctoral Scholars program: https://www.adsphd.org/participatingschools.asp If you're not familiar with the ADS, it's a program funded by the AICPA, Big 4, plus some regional firms, to provide fellowships to 120 current public accounting employees with >3 years experience in the industry. It's an effort to shore up the profession against the projected shortfall in professors in the next 10 years. Thus, the list of schools at the link above are all focused on teaching to at least some extent

Good luck with your applications! I hope you find a program that's a great fit.

risys82 · Answer

I'm not sure why Sailorette posted that information regarding ADS programs, as I can assure you that a great deal of those programs do not focus on teaching, but rather research (e.g. Illinois, Ohio State, Cornell, Arizona, USC, etc). Actually, nearly all of those programs are research focused, as you will find that a lot of PhD programs are. In fact, I'm quite sure that if you are honest and even mention your keen interest in teaching you will be automatically denied admission to many of those programs. They are not interested in producing teachers, but researchers. Of course as a professor, one of your responsibilities will always be to teach, but that is not the focus at all. In general, any of the "top" accounting programs, like say in the top 50, are generally going to be research focused. In fact, the PhD is really a research degree. If you're interested in primarily teaching as it sounds like you are, a masters degree is the better choice. However, as greg mentioned, generally the less competitive programs may have more of a teaching focus (although ultimately all PhD programs' main focus is research).

Since you specifically mention Ohio State and Duke, I'm sure you are aware that they are both one of the top ranked accounting PhD programs. Admissions to either is honestly slim. You have a great undergraduate GPA as well as GMAT score. However, that will probably not be enough to set you apart from the other applicants to those programs who will probably have similar GPAs, GMAT scores, MS accounting, work experience, etc. I am in no way trying to discourage you, but you have to realize that getting into either of those programs is extremely competitive, especially given the fact that they only admit 2-3 students a year out of perhaps a hundred or more applications. What this means is that your profile can not just be "acceptable" but must be outstanding.

As for your original question about getting into a "good" PhD program, it really depends on how you define good. Generally a good PhD program is one where there are several professors that share your research interests. If you are able to communicate why you are interested in a PhD and align your research interests with those of professors at your chosen programs, I'm sure that you stand a fair chance at getting into at least one "good" program in the top 50.

Phd In Accounting.... Straight from Undergrad

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