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rajpdsouza
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 10:32
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kidderek
For that matter, most of the Pats' Super Bowl wins have been good games (except maybe the one over the Eagles).
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That stings. It was only 3 pts!!!

I was down in New Orleans two weekends ago for my brother's bachelor party and they had past Super Bowl highlights on at a bar. The Pats/Eagles game came on and it made me so bitter.

Nothing that Bourbon Street couldn't fix though. :lol:
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rajpdsouza
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 10:35
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kidderek
river, what are your thoughts on spygate? esp with the recent revelations (Super Bowl vs Rams)
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I'm a little worried about the NFL. This could turn into a "steroids"-esque scandal. Many analysts freely admit that videotaping is a common practice. If the Pats go down, I'm sure other teams are going down as well.

That said, if they did cheat, they deserve to get punished. That goes for all teams that did this.
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 10:45
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I think stealing signals is all fine and dandy. I have no problem with that. But when you use an electronic device to do so, that's going too far. But even still, I think the advantage can be neutralized by mixing up signals.

However, taping your opponents run-through, which is where teams practice the plays that they plan on running is a huge violation of the code of ethics. Especially where the stadium is shared, such as a SB setting, this act is tantamount to sneaking into your opponent's stadium and filming their practices.

It's really a shame. I am a huge Belichek fan ever since he neutralized the Bills potent offense in SB XXV.
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rajpdsouza
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 10:49
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kidderek
I think stealing signals is all fine and dandy. I have no problem with that. But when you use an electronic device to do so, that's going too far. But even still, I think the advantage can be neutralized by mixing up signals.

However, taping your opponents run-through, which is where teams practice the plays that they plan on running is a huge violation of the code of ethics. Especially where the stadium is shared, such as a SB setting, this act is tantamount to sneaking into your opponent's stadium and filming their practices.
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100% agree.
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 11:21
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Football has a long and proud tradition of cheating. From steroids in the 70s-80s, to eye gouging and groin hits in the pile through its entire history. Everything happens, its part of the game...its not one team doing it. They all do it. Several former coaches have said videoing signals is pretty common, and it wasn’t until this year that the NFL decided to crack down on it. Teams have always tried to sneak in to other teams practices, brought in recently cut players, and former coaches as "consultants."

If the pats managed to actually get into the Rams walk through that’s more the fault of the rams for having crap security since I am sure lots of teams try to watch those last few practices. There was a former player on the radio in Boston who said they caught a raiders guy hiding in a tree years ago trying to watch their practices before a big game. That’s why they clear out EVERYONE from the stadiums during these, it makes it really obvious if someone is there that they shouldn’t be.

I doubt the stories of electronic eaves dropping or jamming of radio signals that people have accused the pats of doing. Spy gate sucks, they lost a pick and 3/4 of a mill but it didn’t affect the season. It happened 5 minutes into the first game of the season...so it doesn’t taint what they did. If you think the pats were the only one doing this you are pretty naive, these teams do everything they can to get an advantage. The Jets broke an unwritten rule themselves, you are never supposed to sell out your former team. Jimmy Johnson post spygate actually was on the radio up here and said that what Mangini did goes against everything a coach should do to his former team...kick the guy out fine but you don’t rat on them to the NFL.

2001, the Pats were America's team...it was post 9/11 and everyone wanted them to win. Fast forward 6 years and everyone hates them because they continue to win. People who don’t root for a team that dominates they go for the underdog. Its like the Yankees post 2000. Everyone was so sick of them winning that EVERYONE who doesn’t route for the pinstripes wants them to lose. A lot of folks weren't rooting for the Giants; they were rooting against the Pats because they wanted to cut them down. The whole philosophy of the team has stayed the same. Heck almost every team now runs onto the field during the superbowl as a team not individually…this was started by the 2001 Pats . The giants did that last night...

Overall I think the Pats have changed the way football teams operate, to be successful you need to have a great quarter back and the rest of your team needs to be strong and balanced. You are better off with a bunch of solid players than one great one taking up a huge portion of the cap and a bunch of bums because they are cheap. For a team to dominate in a system set up for equality says a lot, pretty much the Pats and Colts have been the two teams that have been dominant since 2000…a lot of that hinges on Brady and Peyton. If the giants are going to make a long term run Eli is going to have to be like Brady/Peyton and not turn into Rex Grossman.

If congress is going to go into this whole taping crap thats a waste of tax payers money. I dont get why they are doing this, do they think the NFL was rigging games or covering up things? Are they going to start reviewing calls by the refs to see how that changed games? Look at the Pats and Broncos a few years ago, so many horrible calls against the pats it cost them the game. Or the hand to Samuels face last night to clear room for a great catch that otherwise wouldnt be made. There are so many small things that can be called or not called in a game to change the outcome that if the league really wants a team to win they could get it done. How about the tuck rule, want to reverse that call and then make the Raiders champions?

I would like to think that congress has something more valuable to do with its time than worry about the NFL or MLB...I mean teams and players are already convicted in the court of public opinion and thats all that really matters. Clemens can go lie on the stand and we are all going to still think he took roids. How about balancing the budget or the war. Oh by the way check out who sits on that committee...its chaired by a guy from Ct and the most senior member is from Mass. Both Pats fans, good luck getting something there Alan.
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rajpdsouza
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 11:31
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riverripper
to eye gouging and groin hits in the pile through its entire history.
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The need to get a player mic'd up and equipped with a helmet-cam and get him to fall on a fumble. It'd be interesting to see/hear what goes on at the bottom of those piles.
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 12:19
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rajpdsouza
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 12:26
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haha. that's what they get for trying to trademark "19-0" before the game was played.
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 12:34
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rr, i will have to disagree with you. "but everybody does it" is a poor excuse. and no hard evidence has come out on other teams doing it. people dont hate the pats because they win. people didnt hate michael jordan and the bulls, or tiger woods, or federer who dominated their sports. people hate the pats because of the arrogance of belichick and brady. how classless was it that belichick walked off the field before the game was over? i hope he gets burned for that like randy moss was years ago. brady was so smarmy, (see https://youtube.com/watch?v=BkZUyqgQ6as), never giving the giants a chance. lt was right about belichick last year.

Edited: meant to say jordan and the bulls
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rajpdsouza
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 12:46
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I disagree. Moss left the field when his team was kicking an onsides kick and still had a chance to win the game. Belichek met in the middle of the field, when the game was decided, and shook Coughlin's hand. Remember, it's not like Belichek just ran out there by himself, there was a swarm of coaches, media, etc out there as well. His team just lost a chance at history, after winning 18 games. I think it's ok if he's angry.

If there is evidence that the Pats videotaped the Rams walkthroughs, I'd like them to do an investigation of the Eagles/Pats game as well. Am I still bitter? Perhaps. But I've read interviews where Eagles players said it was like the Pats knew what plays the defense was calling. Maybe they did...

Either way, what will happen to Belichek? Will he be suspended, banned, or what? What about the Patriots rings? Will they be taken away? I just wonder how far the NFL is going to go. It seems like Goodell knew that there are other teams that do this and that's why he destroyed the tapes and hoped to sweep the problem under the rug.
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 12:53
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I read WSJ.com's article on the Super Bowl ads, and they either quote top ad execs or Kellogg students. The Kellogg students liked the FedEx pigeon ad and the Diet Pepsi Max ad with all of the celebrities.
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 12:53
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dabots
rr, i will have to disagree with you. "but everybody does it" is a poor excuse. and no hard evidence has come out on other teams doing it. people dont hate the pats because they win. people didnt hate michael jordan and the giants, or tiger woods, or federer who dominated their sports. people hate the pats because of the arrogance of belichick and brady. how classless was it that belichick walked off the field before the game was over? i hope he gets burned for that like randy moss was years ago. brady was so smarmy, (see https://youtube.com/watch?v=BkZUyqgQ6as), never giving the giants a chance. lt was right about belichick last year.
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KUDOS. I think river could give a more cogent opinion in a few days after the shock of last night's loss wears off.
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter Updated on: 04 Feb 2008, 13:19
Originally posted by jamesrwrightiii on 04 Feb 2008, 12:58.
Last edited by jamesrwrightiii on 04 Feb 2008, 13:19, edited 1 time in total.
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I think the reason most people hate the Pats is because of their coach who just seems like a total ahole all the way around. He ran up the score on teams at the beginning of the year. He cheated and possibly won his first super bowl that way when he taped the Rams. He ran off the field early. Generally looks like an unhappy guy. I have NEVER seen the guy smile once on the sideline, and I watch a lot of football. If the Colts had gone undefeated I don't think anyone would hate on them. Tony Dungy is a very likable guy. Just too many negative things about the Pats such as dishonesty and smugness.

Tom Brady is likeable and a class act Randy Moss also seems to have matured after how many years.-So are the players on defense except for Rodney Harrison who was on HGH. Can't hate on Junior Seau or Vrabel. They are class acts as well.
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 13:02
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Belichik - a great coach, but a very sore loser. It all started with the way he disrespected Mangini for taking a position with the jets. The hunger for victory has definitely eroded the little sportsmanship he had to begin with. He walked off the field because he could not stand to see the clock go 00:00 and watch another team's SB winning moment. Totally classless! but completely consistent with his past behavior.

I still think Brady's reaction to Burress' prediction was OK. I mean the pats had broken the points record for the season and averaged about 35+ ppg. Tom had every reason to think they will score more than 17. Speaking about Moss, he and Rodney harrison atleast gave generous praise for the giants. All belichik could mumble was "they made plays. we made plays. we didnt make enough". loser.

The BIGGEST reason pats lost was belichik. What was he thinking wearing the red hoodie instead of the grey one :lol: :lol: :lol:

dabots
rr, i will have to disagree with you. "but everybody does it" is a poor excuse. and no hard evidence has come out on other teams doing it. people dont hate the pats because they win. people didnt hate michael jordan and the giants, or tiger woods, or federer who dominated their sports. people hate the pats because of the arrogance of belichick and brady. how classless was it that belichick walked off the field before the game was over? i hope he gets burned for that like randy moss was years ago. brady was so smarmy, (see https://youtube.com/watch?v=BkZUyqgQ6as), never giving the giants a chance. lt was right about belichick last year.
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 13:08
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ncprasad

The BIGGEST reason pats lost was belichik. What was he thinking wearing the red hoodie instead of the grey one :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Best analysis thus far.
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rajpdsouza
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 13:15
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ncprasad

The BIGGEST reason pats lost was belichik. What was he thinking wearing the red hoodie instead of the grey one :lol: :lol: :lol:

Best analysis thus far.
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Early in the game they showed him in his red hoodie and a graphic popped up about their record. My friends and I just looked at each other...could they jinx the Pats any more than that?!
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 13:18
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As a Steelers fan, I am disappointed we let Plax go. I am not sure if he matured in NY or they just used him properly. Steelers simply are not a passing team. Even know Ben was one of the highest rated QB's in terms of passer ratings, he had fewer yards than the other "good" QB's in the league, Peyton and Brady. I know Ben and Plax didn't play on the same team I am simply pointing out that the Steelers system doesn't put up big passing numbers regardless of QB. Tommy Maddox year was an exception, but after he got hurt and was paralyzed temporarily, he was never the same.
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 13:21
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It is common practice in all pro sports to bend every rule they can and break them...as long as you dont get caught. Using every advantage you can gain on your opponents is common across all sports and all teams. Car racing they are always cheating trying to get an illegal part in. Baseball they steal signs from the catcher when on second base. Hockey they are always hacking each other behind the refs back. Basketball they flail elbows after shots and put feet underguys as they come down to trip them up. If you think the pats are the only ones that video taped then thats just clueless. It wasnt illegal until this year, it wasnt allowed but they created the rule against it this year.

Belichick is a terrible sport, thats a fact no arguing that. He isnt always a classy guy in defeat but before games he typically is out there saying how great the other team is...even if they are horrible like the Dolphins this year. Brady was not nearly as cocky as the Giants. They were the ones predicting scores, they won give them credit for backing it up but saying the Pats werent giving them a shot is silly since pretty much every interview on the news around here they talked about how hard the Giants played them in week 17 and how great their D-line is, Eli is an elite QB...it was the TV people who werent giving the giants a chance. The pats may have responded to some smack talk but you cant blame them...I dont think any team is going to go into a superbowl saying well we are going to lose.

As for showing class have you read quotes from the Giants players? They are showing about as much class in victory as Belichick has showed in defeat. They are putting the Pats taunting of eagles fans at the end of the superbowl to shame. You may think my opinions are jaded because I am a pats fan but your opinions are just as biased against them. At least I have admitted to the bad things the Pats did and how scummy Belichick was at the end of the night.

Anyways good game, maybe we can manage a rematch next February.
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 13:23
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Yeah Tom Brady didn't say anything bad. He complimented Plax. Obviously last time these two teams met it was an offensive show to say the least. I can see why Tom Brady would think the game would be higher scoring..He was saying Plax should have said something higher..like 45-42..which is what most people thought in terms of level of scoring.
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Pre and Post Super Bowl chatter 04 Feb 2008, 13:25
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Personally, I like Tom Brady. This year probably the winning & Belichick's attitude rubbed off on him. I would venture to say that Belichick owes most of his success in the past few years to his play under pressure. That said the reason I hate the Pats is not their domination but their coach. Substitute Dungy & keep the multiple SBs - I don't think as many people would've hated them. His attitude with the press & his post-game shoving is just disgusting. When Spygate first broke out, the entire team acted as if nothing happened and just glossed over it. The "we don't care what others think, we can only bulldoze our opponents" attitude does not endear itself to others.

I am not even a Giants fan especially since they beat my beloved Cowboys. But I enjoyed every moment of yesterday's 4th quarter. Makes up partly for all the disappointing finishes that I've had to witness with Dallas sports.
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