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anonymousegmat
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question about tenure 02 Sep 2007, 08:56
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I have a question about the tenure process.

Say as a PhD I publish a paper or two. After I graduate I get a good non TT job at a state university. I manage to publish another paper or two and in a few years I land a TT job somewhere else. Do the papers I have published while at other Universities count towards fulfilling my tenure requirements? Or do they only consider journal output that happens while I am employed by them (and their name is attached to it)

just curious.
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question about tenure 02 Sep 2007, 11:14
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anonymousegmat
I have a question about the tenure process.

Say as a PhD I publish a paper or two. After I graduate I get a good non TT job at a state university. I manage to publish another paper or two and in a few years I land a TT job somewhere else. Do the papers I have published while at other Universities count towards fulfilling my tenure requirements? Or do they only consider journal output that happens while I am employed by them (and their name is attached to it)

just curious.
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The tenure clock starts afresh anytime you are hired as an assistant professor.

The only time you will be hired into a non tenure track position is when you a clinical or adjunct. In either case, you may be offered a rolling contract of 3-6 years. As a clinical or adjunct, you will swamped with teaching responsibilities and I doubt you will have anytime to do anything else.

The fact that you start your career in a non tenure track position sends out confusing and perhaps wrong signals to any research school. You may have personal reasons to do so, but it does not bode well for a career in research. Further, you say that you will continue publishing while you are in a non tenure track position. This seems ambitious. In a non tenure track position, you will have no monetary or professional incentive to publish or work on research. It is possible and i am sure it has been done, but the odds are very much against you. Making the switch from a non tenure track position to a tenure track position is possible, but very difficult.

You are asking good questions. I would encourage you to start with what you really want to do with your PhD. Fix the problem at its source. If you say teaching, there are easier ways to get your PhD. If you want research, the plot will thicken further. Then you have to look at what kind of research you are interested in. Once you have made that decision, then you look for the professors who work with the kind of stuff you are interested in. So on and So forth...

Hope this helps
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question about tenure 02 Sep 2007, 18:18
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anonymousegmat
I have a question about the tenure process.

Say as a PhD I publish a paper or two. After I graduate I get a good non TT job at a state university. I manage to publish another paper or two and in a few years I land a TT job somewhere else. Do the papers I have published while at other Universities count towards fulfilling my tenure requirements? Or do they only consider journal output that happens while I am employed by them (and their name is attached to it)

just curious.

The tenure clock starts afresh anytime you are hired as an assistant professor.

The only time you will be hired into a non tenure track position is when you a clinical or adjunct. In either case, you may be offered a rolling contract of 3-6 years. As a clinical or adjunct, you will swamped with teaching responsibilities and I doubt you will have anytime to do anything else.

The fact that you start your career in a non tenure track position sends out confusing and perhaps wrong signals to any research school. You may have personal reasons to do so, but it does not bode well for a career in research. Further, you say that you will continue publishing while you are in a non tenure track position. This seems ambitious. In a non tenure track position, you will have no monetary or professional incentive to publish or work on research. It is possible and i am sure it has been done, but the odds are very much against you. Making the switch from a non tenure track position to a tenure track position is possible, but very difficult.

You are asking good questions. I would encourage you to start with what you really want to do with your PhD. Fix the problem at its source. If you say teaching, there are easier ways to get your PhD. If you want research, the plot will thicken further. Then you have to look at what kind of research you are interested in. Once you have made that decision, then you look for the professors who work with the kind of stuff you are interested in. So on and So forth...

Hope this helps
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i am not worried about TT vs. NonTT posistions, teaching vs. research..
let me rephrase the question better.. say you land a TT position somewhere... publish some stuff, find out you don't like the Uni, land a TT somewhere else. do your publications follow you and count toward tenure requirements elsewhere, or do universities only count publication output that happens while you work for them.
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question about tenure 03 Sep 2007, 02:17
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Short answer: No.

Long answer: No. Each school evaluates what you did for the school, while you were at that school.
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question about tenure 03 Sep 2007, 10:31
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anonymousegmat
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anonymousegmat
I have a question about the tenure process.

Say as a PhD I publish a paper or two. After I graduate I get a good non TT job at a state university. I manage to publish another paper or two and in a few years I land a TT job somewhere else. Do the papers I have published while at other Universities count towards fulfilling my tenure requirements? Or do they only consider journal output that happens while I am employed by them (and their name is attached to it)

just curious.

The tenure clock starts afresh anytime you are hired as an assistant professor.

The only time you will be hired into a non tenure track position is when you a clinical or adjunct. In either case, you may be offered a rolling contract of 3-6 years. As a clinical or adjunct, you will swamped with teaching responsibilities and I doubt you will have anytime to do anything else.

The fact that you start your career in a non tenure track position sends out confusing and perhaps wrong signals to any research school. You may have personal reasons to do so, but it does not bode well for a career in research. Further, you say that you will continue publishing while you are in a non tenure track position. This seems ambitious. In a non tenure track position, you will have no monetary or professional incentive to publish or work on research. It is possible and i am sure it has been done, but the odds are very much against you. Making the switch from a non tenure track position to a tenure track position is possible, but very difficult.

You are asking good questions. I would encourage you to start with what you really want to do with your PhD. Fix the problem at its source. If you say teaching, there are easier ways to get your PhD. If you want research, the plot will thicken further. Then you have to look at what kind of research you are interested in. Once you have made that decision, then you look for the professors who work with the kind of stuff you are interested in. So on and So forth...

Hope this helps

i am not worried about TT vs. NonTT posistions, teaching vs. research..
let me rephrase the question better.. say you land a TT position somewhere... publish some stuff, find out you don't like the Uni, land a TT somewhere else. do your publications follow you and count toward tenure requirements elsewhere, or do universities only count publication output that happens while you work for them.
Show more


No, if you move to another school at the same rank, you start over with your tenure clock. Unless you are hired into another university as an associate professor with tenure, the 6 year clock starts over at all research schools. Sometimes you can negotiate a shorter time frame, but this is not too common.
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question about tenure 05 Sep 2007, 21:20
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Quote:
No, if you move to another school at the same rank, you start over with your tenure clock. Unless you are hired into another university as an associate professor with tenure, the 6 year clock starts over at all research schools. Sometimes you can negotiate a shorter time frame, but this is not too common.
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You sure about that? I know a prof (fairly prominent) who got tenure in a 2-3 years after moving to a new school. Maybe he was one of the rare ones.

The job market for mid-level faculty is pretty strong, so it would not surprise me to see people who are "good," not necessarily a "superstar" per se (e.g. making fairly decent strides in research/teaching) at a uni attracting strong interest from other schools, and I'm guessing that they'd offer commensurate credit for prior service to attract them.
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question about tenure 08 Sep 2007, 21:09
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bauble
You sure about that? I know a prof (fairly prominent) who got tenure in a 2-3 years after moving to a new school. Maybe he was one of the rare ones.

The job market for mid-level faculty is pretty strong, so it would not surprise me to see people who are "good," not necessarily a "superstar" per se (e.g. making fairly decent strides in research/teaching) at a uni attracting strong interest from other schools, and I'm guessing that they'd offer commensurate credit for prior service to attract them.
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Some schools are very strict about the tenure clock, some schools aren't. Some only include the very recent work that you've done in making tenure decisions, some will look at the impact you've had and the citations you've gotten, no matter when you published the paper. I'd be very careful in making such generalizations about tenure decisions as these policies are notoriously secretive.

In all honesty, if anyone's either at the PhD application/PhD program stage and not on the job market, I think that thinking about tenure decisions is largely counterproductive. I mean, it's not like it's what you should worry about just now.
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question about tenure 11 Sep 2007, 19:42
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In all honesty, if anyone's either at the PhD application/PhD program stage and not on the job market, I think that thinking about tenure decisions is largely counterproductive. I mean, it's not like it's what you should worry about just now.
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Worrying about job-hopping while TT is a bit fatalistic. However, I do think that it is worth thinking about your first job all through the Ph.D. program. There are co-authored papers that will help tremendously in getting a good first job, and then there is the dissertation stream of research that can, ideally, enhance publication productivity during TT years.
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question about tenure 11 Sep 2007, 19:52
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cabro57
bauble
You sure about that? I know a prof (fairly prominent) who got tenure in a 2-3 years after moving to a new school. Maybe he was one of the rare ones.

The job market for mid-level faculty is pretty strong, so it would not surprise me to see people who are "good," not necessarily a "superstar" per se (e.g. making fairly decent strides in research/teaching) at a uni attracting strong interest from other schools, and I'm guessing that they'd offer commensurate credit for prior service to attract them.

Some schools are very strict about the tenure clock, some schools aren't. Some only include the very recent work that you've done in making tenure decisions, some will look at the impact you've had and the citations you've gotten, no matter when you published the paper. I'd be very careful in making such generalizations about tenure decisions as these policies are notoriously secretive.

In all honesty, if anyone's either at the PhD application/PhD program stage and not on the job market, I think that thinking about tenure decisions is largely counterproductive. I mean, it's not like it's what you should worry about just now.
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i agree - i am a year or two away from even applying. i just want to know everything i can about what i am going to do for the rest fo my life :o)
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question about tenure Updated on: 11 Sep 2007, 20:14
Originally posted by Praetorian on 11 Sep 2007, 20:09.
Last edited by Praetorian on 11 Sep 2007, 20:14, edited 1 time in total.
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No, if you move to another school at the same rank, you start over with your tenure clock. Unless you are hired into another university as an associate professor with tenure, the 6 year clock starts over at all research schools. Sometimes you can negotiate a shorter time frame, but this is not too common.

You sure about that? I know a prof (fairly prominent) who got tenure in a 2-3 years after moving to a new school. Maybe he was one of the rare ones.

The job market for mid-level faculty is pretty strong, so it would not surprise me to see people who are "good," not necessarily a "superstar" per se (e.g. making fairly decent strides in research/teaching) at a uni attracting strong interest from other schools, and I'm guessing that they'd offer commensurate credit for prior service to attract them.
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bauble

Thats what I meant when I said that sometimes you can negotiate a shorter time frame, but it is not too common. Yes, this is possible and I am pretty sure that there are several such exceptions to the rule. If you come into a program with a good reputation , you can cut some sort of a deal for less than 6 years. Its not too common, but it is definitely possible. Such exceptions are tempting data that reinforces what we all want...a little flexibility, but we should safely assume a 6 year clock.

I would not make any assumptions at all. There is no harm in knowing what's possible, but we should not let it be a distraction.
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question about tenure 11 Sep 2007, 20:10
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bauble
Quote:
In all honesty, if anyone's either at the PhD application/PhD program stage and not on the job market, I think that thinking about tenure decisions is largely counterproductive. I mean, it's not like it's what you should worry about just now.

Worrying about job-hopping while TT is a bit fatalistic. However, I do think that it is worth thinking about your first job all through the Ph.D. program. There are co-authored papers that will help tremendously in getting a good first job, and then there is the dissertation stream of research that can, ideally, enhance publication productivity during TT years.
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Both of you make very strong points. I would not let tenure decisions worry me at all.

I would focus on a good strong dissertation topic that will generate research not only straight out of my Ph.D, but through my tenure track years as well.

It is absolutely imperative to understand the game well. Discussing such topics with faculty and your peers is extremely important.
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