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MGOBLUE2
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Schools to apply for a career in Management Consulting ? 03 Jun 2008, 08:18
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I disagree with both Dabots and River -- if you want to do bulge bracket i-banking or mgmt consulting, you will have ample opportunities at both GSB and Kellogg. I don't agree with the idea that 'Kellogg is better for finance because its less competition.' I bet there are certain firms that have certain specialties (like a company that focuses on bonds) that focus their recruiting efforts at finance schools such as W or Chi. At the same time, though M/B/B may recruit everywhere, there are many smaller consulting firms that I believe have much more focused recruiting like Parthenon who recruits at K but not Chi. It's these more specialized options/firms that give K and Chi their respective advantages in terms of on campus job search.

Also, I think for at least the next couple years, we are going to see more of those folks who are debating between MC and IB to lean towards consulting. With IB hiring down, MC is becoming a more attractive option in the short-term.




dabots
riverripper
Just go through schools employment reports and its clear that any top school will work. Obviously the better the school the better your chances, I would say in order it would be H, S, W, K, M/Chi, Col, Tuck, then on from there.
river, i will take this opportunity to make an argument you have made several times.

chicago has better placement than kellogg at m/b/b, given that a higher percentage of those going into consulting at chicago end up at an m/b/b compared to kellogg.

you have argued that kellogg may be better for banking because less students pursue finance at kellogg and it is less competitive to land a spot at a bb bank. if that is true, doesn't the same hold for consulting? (i.e., chicago has less students interested in consulting so it will be less competitive).
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MGOBLUE2, I don't actually believe what I said about Chicago being better than Kellogg for consulting or Kellogg being better than Chicago for finance. I was just playing devil's advocate because I've seen river make that argument made for Kellogg and wanted to see if he would bite. :-D
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The thing that everyone needs to keep in mind is that we are in fairly lean times economically. When the economy turns south, recruiting goes downhill even at the M7. As you can imagine, the 7-15 schools get impacted even worse and the amount of slots for places like MBB consulting firms and Bulge Bracket banks is minimal at best.
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Haha, well played

dabots
MGOBLUE2, I don't actually believe what I said about Chicago being better than Kellogg for consulting or Kellogg being better than Chicago for finance. I was just playing devil's advocate because I've seen river make that argument made for Kellogg and wanted to see if he would bite. :-D
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terp06
The thing that everyone needs to keep in mind is that we are in fairly lean times economically. When the economy turns south, recruiting goes downhill even at the M7. As you can imagine, the 7-15 schools get impacted even worse and the amount of slots for places like MBB consulting firms and Bulge Bracket banks is minimal at best.
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That likely won't be the case if the OP is planning to be a part of the Class of 2011...
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dabots
MGOBLUE2, I don't actually believe what I said about Chicago being better than Kellogg for consulting or Kellogg being better than Chicago for finance. I was just playing devil's advocate because I've seen river make that argument made for Kellogg and wanted to see if he would bite. :-D
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I know I am a pompom waver already but I am not that biased...YET.

I do think that having less competition probably does have a slight advantage with getting on a closed list since there arent as many folks for the slots. Judging by how often the big IB and MC companies go to the top schools they put a huge effort into getting students from all of them. GSB sends 25% of their class into consulting, where as Kellogg sends 31%...so there are going to be fewer folks trying to get onto closed MC lists. While the difference in finance is even more striking in that about 40% of GSB students go into finance fields, and only about 25% of Kellogg students do. Obviously Goldman isnt going to go to Kellogg and want to hire as many students as they will from Chicago but there will be fewer former bankers there. I dont know how popular GSB is with consultants but I know that there are Bain, BCG, and McKinsey folks heading to Kellogg, there may be more former consultants heading to Kellogg.

Even with less competition I dont think this should be enough to sway anyone one way or another during a decision really...doesnt matter to me anyways. I dont think many people will be recruiting for the same jobs as me anyways...thats one advantage of wanting something outside the traditional fields. Not to say that I wont change my mind this fall.
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[quote="dabots"]

I don't believe this is correlated to a larger number of pre-MBA M/B/B analysts at Chicago. In fact I have looked through the entire Chicago facebook group (~350 ppl) and not seen a single M/B/B analyst in the 2010 class. [quote]

This sounds about right. I work at M/B/B and, while I cannot give lots of details, U.S. offices generally place 80% of analyst at H/S/W. Of the remaining 20%, people generally attend INSEAD or Kellogg. I don't know anyone at Chicago GSB from my firm right now.
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Here's data from the Bain website. For the class of 2009, # of Bainies currently in b-school (i.e., non-summer consultants...ex-Analysts) from all office worldwide.

Let';s look at Schools in the US News top schools + INSEAD

Wharton: 20
INSEAD: 16
Stanford GSB: 16
HBS: 16
Kellogg: 5
Tuck: 5
Haas: 5
MIT Sloan: 2
Columbia: 2
Chicago GSB: 1
Michigan Ross: 1
Stern: 0
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You are probably only focused on the US - but let me add anyway. Regardless of where, INSEAD is super strong when it comes to top 3. In 2007 the big-3 made 123 offers (excluding those already from there!). And I know that this year, for my batch, McK made an impressive number of offers even though the economy is in a crapper. BCG made quite a few as well. (Finance was a disaster for us)

Just as a curiosity I began comparing career reports of INSEAD with some of the other US schools, and there are interesting trends there. I'm hoping to get it out on my blog soon.

It's good to be seeing these posts on GMAT Club, my favorite haunt in my pre-MBA application days!
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Sorry to interrupt, but what does M/B/B stand for? I'm usually good at getting the abbreviations and acronyms, but this time I'm stumped.
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VictoryMBA
Sorry to interrupt, but what does M/B/B stand for? I'm usually good at getting the abbreviations and acronyms, but this time I'm stumped.
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McKinsey. BCG and Bain. Also referred to frequently as "the big 3", sometimes also called McKBain ;)
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Necro - looking forward to reading your post

Is there a place to contact you? I find that our profiles are somewhat similar and could use some advice if you have the time?
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Necro - looking forward to reading your post

Is there a place to contact you? I find that our profiles are somewhat similar and could use some advice if you have the time?
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The post is up on my blog now. You can also find my contact there.
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necromonger


The post is up on my blog now. You can also find my contact there.
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The tables are chopped in half in my browser, can`t see all the stats.
Biggest variant factor that I can see (which you mentioned i think because half the text is chopped off :wink: ) is that the Euro is near its all time high vs the US Dollar and likewise Sterling is very strong (almost 2:1).
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You can get the raw data in the attached pdf ...

togafoot
necromonger


The post is up on my blog now. You can also find my contact there.

The tables are chopped in half in my browser, can`t see all the stats.
Biggest variant factor that I can see (which you mentioned i think because half the text is chopped off :wink: ) is that the Euro is near its all time high vs the US Dollar and likewise Sterling is very strong (almost 2:1).
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togafoot
necromonger


The post is up on my blog now. You can also find my contact there.

The tables are chopped in half in my browser, can`t see all the stats.
Biggest variant factor that I can see (which you mentioned i think because half the text is chopped off :wink: ) is that the Euro is near its all time high vs the US Dollar and likewise Sterling is very strong (almost 2:1).
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That is true, and it is mentioned in my comments in the PDF (see the highlighted link before the table starts..it's in bold red ;) ) I've mentioned anyway not to obsess about those details but get a comparative on how close things are.
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Alright, the "Haas pompom waver" is back in town. :P

Anyway, I don't know exact stats yet (if someone wants it, I can ask around and take a look into it), but I definitely know that M/B/B recruit at Haas. Though the number of hires from Haas may be a little deceptive because of it's small class size and a higher % of people going into entrepreneurship, hi-tech, and non-profit fields. When looking at Haas, Google is the top recruiter, with *8* hires. So that kinda shows how Haas students generally go into a very diverse pool of companies.

Ok, took the time to look at some stats:

M/B/B always appears in the top 10 hiring companies at Haas, generally 2 of the 3 will be on there.

Only 17-18% of Haas graduates go into consulting, that's roughly 40 or so students. If M/B/B hire roughly 4-5 students each (this is the number accepted, not given offer, which will be higher), 15 or so of 40 students going into consulting get jobs at M/B/B. Not too bad. Not sure how this compares with other schools, but around 40% of people who go into consulting ending up at the top 3 Consulting firms is not too shabby, IMHO. :P
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Looks like terp06 did the homework for us:

From his other thread:

Big 3 Consulting - Total # Hired
1. Wharton - 220
2. Kellogg - 122
3. MIT - 101
4. Chicago - 99
5. Columbia - 87
6. Michigan - 38
7. Haas - 22
8. Cornell - 14
9. Darden, Duke - 11

Big 3 Consulting - # Hired as % of Student Body
1. Wharton - 13.6%
2. MIT - 13.1%
3. Kellogg - 10.2%
4. Chicago - 8.9%
5. Columbia - 7.1%
6. Michigan - 4.5%
7. Haas - 4.6% (divide by 480 students)
8. Cornell - 2.3%
9. CMU - 2.2%
10. Duke - 1.3%
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based on what Necro posted ... we should include the INSEAD #'s as well.
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Since the post includes limited data on HBS, let me add some anecdotal evidence: I can't think of anyone who applied to M/B/B (for the summer) and did not get an interview. There might be some, but if so, I haven't discussed their job search. (Note: My sample includes about 20 people)

- Nobody in the sample was a former consultant. Former consultants ended up doing other stuff or taking the summer off. Hence, the applicants were all career changers.
- Several were internationals.
- They had varying degrees of pre-MBA work experience, from about 1 year to 6.
- They all did, however, spend a decent amount of time in networking events and preparing for case interviews.
- The sample (just by chance, given the choices people in the sample - or their partners- made) was less skewed towards NYC and more towards other US cities and European locations (mostly London).

Having said the above, some did not get any offers from M/B/B and ended up doing consulting at other firms or taking different jobs.

L.
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