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What should happen with Scoretop users

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riverripper
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 09:24
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Stealing this from BW, to see how gmatclubbers view the situation.
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lanter1
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 09:30
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from what i know about the situation, i don't think the scores should be cancelled unless they prove that someone received a competitive advantage. Even still, they should be allowed a retake. I have seen other sites that promised "real" GMAT questions...this guy just happened to actually them.
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 09:37
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I think they should cancel their scores and allow them to retake, but not immediately. I would say a 3-5 year ban would be reasonable. This would be a severe punishment without being a lifetime punishment (outright at least). It still might keep those people from ever going to bschool since it would probably make them in their early to mid 30s before they could take the GMAT again.
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 09:40
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lanter1
from what i know about the situation, i don't think the scores should be cancelled unless they prove that someone received a competitive advantage. Even still, they should be allowed a retake. I have seen other sites that promised "real" GMAT questions...this guy just happened to actually them.
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Gonna have to disagree lanter1. I don't think they need to prove there existed a competitve advantage. There are some people who, could have seen the exact same questions, all 78, and still get no edge. However, their intent to cheat coupled with their actions means that they should not only be expelled from school, but also be banned from re-taking.

I haven't pored through the materials as rhyme has, but for the people who knew what they were getting into, they need to be expelled and banned. How to go about proving? I don't know, maybe rhyme has a better answer.

The tough part is going to be the gray area, where people signed up, paid, but did so unknowingly (so they claim).

How popular a site was scoretop? I've never heard of it until recently, so I naturally assume that people went to that site through referrals. And referrals came from people who had successfully used the "live" questions.
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 10:00
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added a new option....
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Pathfinder
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 11:28
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They should cancel all scores and ban verified cheaters.

Unfortunately, this is just the "peak of the iceberg", this is just one site registered in the United States. Just imagine what is going on on some half-piratic chinese or indian sites... Oh, boy...

I'm not suggesting that cheaters from Scoretop should be abolished, but something is criticaly wrong with the examination process. GMAT as an exam is losing its credibility: if you report high score you are not admired by adcoms but rather suspicious.

They should go back to paper based test, so River here is one more poll proposition for you: after bans and cancelations what next? Paper based test or CAT?
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 11:31
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Pathfinder_77
They should cancel all scores and ban verified cheaters.

Unfortunately, this is just the "peak of the iceberg", this is just one site registered in the United States. Just imagine what is going on on some half-piratic chinese or indian sites... Oh, boy...

I'm not suggesting that cheaters from Scoretop should be abolished, but something is criticaly wrong with the examination process. GMAT as an exam is losing its credibility: if you report high score you are not admired by adcoms but rather suspicious.

They should go back to paper based test, so River here is one more poll proposition for you: after bans and cancelations what next? Paper based test or CAT?
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I think you mean "tip of the iceberg." And yes, I'm sure it's even worse, I'm thinking 100x worse outside of US. As for a remedy? NEVER reuse questions, and the best way to do it is to limit the test to quarterly, fixed dates. No more of the take the test whenever you want business.
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riverripper
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 11:34
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I dont know if the paper test will happen worldwide but I bet they are thinking about it for China. The GRE went to paper tests over there. In the most recent update article on BW, it came out that GMAC is going after several chinese websites with the help of the Chinese government.

Testing once a month or so would be good but that would really be tough at places like Boston, Chicago, NY...where thousands of applicants take the test each year. Doing paper tests like this is one option, especially at colleges where they are set up for that type of test.
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 12:10
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Of course, "tip". Thank you. :wink:

kidderek
Pathfinder_77
They should cancel all scores and ban verified cheaters.

Unfortunately, this is just the "peak of the iceberg", this is just one site registered in the United States. Just imagine what is going on on some half-piratic chinese or indian sites... Oh, boy...

I'm not suggesting that cheaters from Scoretop should be abolished, but something is criticaly wrong with the examination process. GMAT as an exam is losing its credibility: if you report high score you are not admired by adcoms but rather suspicious.

They should go back to paper based test, so River here is one more poll proposition for you: after bans and cancelations what next? Paper based test or CAT?

I think you mean "tip of the iceberg." And yes, I'm sure it's even worse, I'm thinking 100x worse outside of US. As for a remedy? NEVER reuse questions, and the best way to do it is to limit the test to quarterly, fixed dates. No more of the take the test whenever you want business.
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 12:31
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The CAT's are fine. I prefer them actually. You don't have to be perfect and you can allocate your time accordingly. The time limits on the paper tests were brutal so if you were fast in a section and slower in another you would get penalized a lot more, now you can balance out the time limits.

Also the cost and loss of revenue that GMAC would have to go through to move to a paper based quarterly test would be huge.
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 12:49
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terp26
The CAT's are fine. I prefer them actually. You don't have to be perfect and you can allocate your time accordingly. The time limits on the paper tests were brutal so if you were fast in a section and slower in another you would get penalized a lot more, now you can balance out the time limits.

Also the cost and loss of revenue that GMAC would have to go through to move to a paper based quarterly test would be huge.
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Actually, the nature of the CAT is fine. The problem is that the questions are repeated. That's the problem. And since one can register for the test any time of the year, GMAC, at $2400 per, cannot produce enough questions.

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but how about allocating 2/2.5 minutes per question. That way even if you see "live" JJ questions, you will still have the same time to solve new questions.
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 12:53
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I voted for 3 but am a bit confused as to the difference between 3 and 5. I think 3 doesn't cancel the scores for people who aren't verified cheaters?
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kidderek
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 12:58
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sonibubu
I voted for 3 but am a bit confused as to the difference between 3 and 5. I think 3 doesn't cancel the scores for people who aren't verified cheaters?
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I guess the main diff would be the re-take.
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 13:00
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the third choice means that only the scores of the people verified as cheaters gets cancelled and those same people are banned.

the fifth choice states that everyones score gets cancelled.....

i think.....
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terp26
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 13:06
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considering that I've seen gmatprep question on the actual exam, not to mention some other question from gmatprep that was the same but just different numbers, the $2400 a question is probably an overstatement :) I could switch numbers for nothing.
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kidderek
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 13:11
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terp26
considering that I've seen gmatprep question on the actual exam, not to mention some other question from gmatprep that was the same but just different numbers, the $2400 a question is probably an overstatement :) I could switch numbers for nothing.
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I think switching numbers is the precise reason why one should study from the OG/GMATPrep. In essence, you won't be tested on anything you haven't already seen. It's just a variation of a few words and numbers from what you've already practiced with.
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 13:32
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kidderek
sonibubu
I voted for 3 but am a bit confused as to the difference between 3 and 5. I think 3 doesn't cancel the scores for people who aren't verified cheaters?

I guess the main diff would be the re-take.
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What if a re-taker (VIP member) gets better score than s/he did first time? How much compensation you recommend GMAC give for questioning his/her character and not being able to prove it?
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 13:37
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i say cancel the scores and let em take the exam again...this way all those in the grey area will not be treated harshly..i.e people who became members but didnt really use it..as they claim..to be fair to all..all of those suckers from VIP forum and all test takers from INDIA and CHINA should be given an exam again..this time with GMAC ensuring that no question are repeated..
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 13:40
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fresinha12
i say cancel the scores and let em take the exam again...this way all those in the grey area will not be treated harshly..i.e people who became members but didnt really use it..as they claim..to be fair to all..all of those suckers from VIP forum and all test takers from INDIA and CHINA should be given an exam again..this time with GMAC ensuring that no question are repeated..
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Did you literally mean "ALL" from India and China? What about making an online registry of all "VIP" members, like "sex offenders"?
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Should GMAC cancel ScoreTop VIPs' scores? 30 Jun 2008, 14:34
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fresinha12
i say cancel the scores and let em take the exam again...this way all those in the grey area will not be treated harshly..i.e people who became members but didnt really use it..as they claim..to be fair to all..all of those suckers from VIP forum and all test takers from INDIA and CHINA should be given an exam again..this time with GMAC ensuring that no question are repeated..
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Unfortunately, there are no negative kudos on gmatclub. This post merits at least a dozen or so.
How can you so broadly classify the test takers from an entire region based on the actions of some people (over 100k people have taken the GMAT between 2001-07 in India & China)?
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