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riverripper
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 26 Oct 2008, 15:22
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They want diversity and if only 15% of applicants are female its not really in a schools best interest to have a class that is 85% male. The fact that there are different bars for different people to get over to get in is a fact of life. Is it unfair maybe so but they do it for a reason. Go to any business school and the percentages of different groups dont match reality...schools dont try to make it look like the US census but they try to keep it from being too heavily swayed one way. Far more asians and indians are in the schools than in the US population. Far fewer black compared to US. Women make up between 30-40% at most schools, so a lot less than in the world as a whole.

I have not met a female at my school who I dont think is qualified to be here...no matter what race and how "easy" it was for them to get in. So yes they may have a better chance of getting in than an asian american male but would you want to be in a class where they just took the top applicants without regard for diversity?
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 26 Oct 2008, 15:49
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Posts like the one on the previous page make me very mad. It's not being "politically correct" to think that diversity is a good thing and fosters a better learning environment. It's common sense.

In fact, it's ridiculous if some of you think you can somehow quantify "merit" - a high GMAT and high GPA do not a great MBA student make. Let's just assume admissions committees know what they are doing if they are admitting 25-year old women over 29-year old men with "superior" statistics.

And I'm not sure what to say to someone who seems to suggest our economy is screwed because immature 25-year old managers who went to HBS don't know what they're doing. :roll:

I'll say it like it is - there need to be more women in leadership positions, and if business schools are rolling out incentives (or making things "easier") to get more women to enroll, I see nothing wrong with that EVEN if it means it will be harder for someone like myself to get admitted to my top choice school.
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 Updated on: 26 Oct 2008, 16:02
Originally posted by traffix on 26 Oct 2008, 15:55.
Last edited by traffix on 26 Oct 2008, 16:02, edited 1 time in total.
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riverripper
but would you want to be in a class where they just took the top applicants without regard for diversity?
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Yes, I would wanna be in that class. As an Asian American male, I would rather be in that non diverse class than not be accepted in a diverse class. It is totally unfair if a more qualified candidate is rejected in favor of a less qualified candidate just because the school wants to maintain diversity. Its not my fault that a disproportionate number of smart/more qualified Asian Americans apply to business schools.

Btw, I do agree that the female candidates accepted are not underqualified as well. But just meeting all the requirements doesnt get you an admit from a top b-school!
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 26 Oct 2008, 16:01
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nadtrans
It is totally unfair if a more qualified candidate is rejected in favor of a less qualified candidate
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And you're judging the "qualifications" of a candidate based on what - GMAT and GPA alone? Sorry, but that's incredibly shortsighted.
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 Updated on: 26 Oct 2008, 16:08
Originally posted by traffix on 26 Oct 2008, 16:05.
Last edited by traffix on 26 Oct 2008, 16:08, edited 2 times in total.
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nadtrans
It is totally unfair if a more qualified candidate is rejected in favor of a less qualified candidate

And you're judging the "qualifications" of a candidate based on what - GMAT and GPA alone? Sorry, but that's incredibly shortsighted.
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Nope, I meant it from a holistic approach. Come on, u, I and everybody else knows that its easier for a woman / under represented minorities to get an admit than a Caucasian male / Asian American male.

And if u read riveripper's post, he does imply that a female candidate would be accepted over other "top applicants".
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 26 Oct 2008, 16:05
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fresinha12

not to be sexiest, just find it weird that we have compromised too much on merit for gender equality...maybe it has to do with that most of the adcom are women???
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I realize it's a difficult time of year, but this is just ignorant. You don't have to look any further than this website to realize that there are some very skilled women applying. Given the kind of dedication that it takes, I'm sure B-schools have quite enough qualified applicants to round out a class.

I'm sorry that women have an easier time of getting in, but there was a day when the tables were completely reversed, so I don't feel too bad that it's catching up.
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 26 Oct 2008, 16:21
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nadtrans
And if u read riveripper's post, he does imply that a female candidate would be accepted over other "top applicants".
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Please point out where you feel riverripper says an "inferior" female candidate would get accepted over another "superior" so called "top" male applicant.

nadtrans
Nope, I meant it from a holistic approach. Come on, u, I and everybody else knows that its easier for a woman / under represented minorities to get an admit than a Caucasian male / Asian American male.
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And no, I actually DON'T know if it is easier for a female or underrepresented minority applicant to get accepted to business school. What I, you and everyone else DOES know from sources such as admissions411 is that it is perhaps easier to compensate for a lower GMAT or GPA if you are a female or an underrepresented minority applicant, but you agreed with me that they alone were no indication of an applicant's qualifications for an MBA. Holistically, there is no way [because we don't know what goes on in admissions] for us to find out if it is indeed easier to get admitted to a top business school simply because you are a woman or belong to an underrepresented minority.

It's entirely possible that these female or underrepresented minority candidates bring unique perspectives to the classroom that other Caucasian or Asian-American male applicants do not.
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 26 Oct 2008, 16:32
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"I have not met a female at my school who I dont think is qualified to be here...no matter what race and how "easy" it was for them to get in. So yes they may have a better chance of getting in than an asian american male but would you want to be in a class where they just took the top applicants without regard for diversity?" - riverripper

To me, he is implying that all the top applicants were not accepted. Instead, adjustments were made to select candidates to maintain diversity. And everyone DOES know (not for sure, but an educated guess) that it is easier for a female / underrepresented minority / unusual background etc to be accepted as the adcom compares similar applications. By that i mean that an IB guy wont be compared with a doctor. an engineer would not be compared with an teacher. So, if the applicant pool for a particular category is low, u will see that it becomes easier for a candidate to be accepted from that segment of applicant pool, and that is exactly what riverripper was implying with his statement.

For the record, I m in no way suggesting that women candidates accepted are unqualified to be in that class. I agree with riverripper that all candidates accepted are qualified. Its just that being qualified will not guarantee you an admit!
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 26 Oct 2008, 17:10
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fresinha12
so from what i see, if you are a female, below the age of 25 and have an avg gmat score, you are more likely to get into an Ultra-Elite than a White Caucasian male over the age of 29 with a very high gmat score...and no wonder our economy is totally F--ed up..cause all these 25 years old who have no clue on how to run companies..get to hbs and become my boss..

not to be sexiest, just find it weird that we have compromised too much on merit for gender equality...maybe it has to do with that most of the adcom are women???
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I find your comment offensive, but will only comment on it with that I hope you won't treat females in your future class like they don't deserve to be there.
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 26 Oct 2008, 17:19
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nadtrans
It is totally unfair if a more qualified candidate is rejected in favor of a less qualified candidate

And you're judging the "qualifications" of a candidate based on what - GMAT and GPA alone? Sorry, but that's incredibly shortsighted.
Show more

I agree. It seems that many people on this thread are very focused on the stats of a candidate. Every elite school identifies candidates to shape a class that will enable each student to learn from a variety of diverse perspectives. These are the types of perspectives a true industry leader must acquire. Sure if you want to go and graduate and crunch numbers for the rest of your life and never be a successful executive or CEO, I can see why you would have this view. But if you have true leadership aspirations, you would understand the value of having a diverse class.

I wouldn't apply to a school that had mostly one gender, one race, 750+ GMAT scores and 4.0 GPAs. What would you learn?

On that note, every woman I know in a top MBA program is on par if not above many of the profiles on this board. Be careful when you stereotype. Assuming that admissions committees consist of mostly women is fine - keep it to yourself, but stating it publicly is unintelligent. I hope that I don't join a class that has such immature views and tact.
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 26 Oct 2008, 17:37
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jlola21


I agree. It seems that many people on this thread are very focused on the stats of a candidate.
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I thought that we had already established that admissions was a holistic process. And by the way, we all agree that a class should be diverse to promote quality education. If you read through my posts, I have repeatedly stated that I dint think that female candidates were not qualified to be accepted by the top b-schools. The issue was about how easy/how difficult it was for applicants from different segments of the application pool to be accepted. My views on this subject are moderate and are not extreme as might come across from this discussion.
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 26 Oct 2008, 17:44
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nadtrans

I thought that we had already established that admissions was a holistic process. And by the way, we all agree that a class should be diverse to promote quality education. If you read through my posts, I have repeatedly stated that I dint think that female candidates were not qualified to be accepted by the top b-schools. The issue was about how easy/how difficult it was for applicants from different segments of the application pool to be accepted. My views on this subject are moderate and are not extreme as might come across from this discussion.
Show more

I understand - my comment wasn't directed at you, you happened to be in the quote that I didn't edit out. I am disapointed with another main comment and how some people were quick to let it go. I really do not think its okay for people to make generalizations about women on this board.

But sorry about that, not you, not you! :-).
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 26 Oct 2008, 18:06
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nadtrans

I thought that we had already established that admissions was a holistic process. And by the way, we all agree that a class should be diverse to promote quality education. If you read through my posts, I have repeatedly stated that I dint think that female candidates were not qualified to be accepted by the top b-schools. The issue was about how easy/how difficult it was for applicants from different segments of the application pool to be accepted. My views on this subject are moderate and are not extreme as might come across from this discussion.

I understand - my comment wasn't directed at you, you happened to be in the quote that I didn't edit out. I am disapointed with another main comment and how some people were quick to let it go. I really do not think its okay for people to make generalizations about women on this board.

But sorry about that, not you, not you! :-).
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Phew.. I can now have a sound sleep :-D
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 26 Oct 2008, 19:19
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I am an Asian American male. Sorry just felt like saying it, and I am feeling a little sad due to the fact that I am not a minority living in a town with almost no Asian Americans. I think business school should look at where the candidate is from and then their ethnicity. :)
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 26 Oct 2008, 19:44
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I think the most important thing I've learnt about this is that getting into B-school is an imperfect process. Adcoms are not infallible, and with all the constraints that they have to work under (getting the right diversity mix, targeting a specific age bracket, etc), a great candidate may not get into his school of choice. The Adcoms themselves admit that the process is imperfect. To me, that's life, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

The significance in all of this is that it has made me look at MBAs with greater maturity. I used to look at a Harvard MBA and think, wow, he must be spectacular, and much better than his friend the Cornell MBA. Now I know not to make those superficial conclusions. For the record, the most impressive guy my work has a Cornell MBA (we also have Chicago, Duke and Columbia MBAs).
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 26 Oct 2008, 19:58
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apparently you haven't worked for a manager who goes through a very nasty phase every month..

solaris1
Posts like the one on the previous page make me very mad. It's not being "politically correct" to think
that diversity is a good thing and fosters a better learning environment. It's common sense.

In fact, it's ridiculous if some of you think you can somehow quantify "merit" - a high GMAT and high GPA do not a great MBA student make. Let's just assume admissions committees know what they are doing if they are admitting 25-year old women over 29-year old men with "superior" statistics.

And I'm not sure what to say to someone who seems to suggest our economy is screwed because immature 25-year old managers who went to HBS don't know what they're doing. :roll:

I'll say it like it is - there need to be more women in leadership positions, and if business schools are rolling out incentives (or making things "easier") to get more women to enroll, I see nothing wrong with that EVEN if it means it will be harder for someone like myself to get admitted to my top choice school.
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 26 Oct 2008, 20:06
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people who are supporting adding diversity based on race, gender...fail to realize that everyone is different. So now are you saying all White caucasian males are the same? what makes you say that? we are all diverse
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 26 Oct 2008, 22:07
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[quote="fresinha12"]apparently you haven't worked for a manager who goes through a very nasty phase every month..

That was outright nasty. There is no place for that on Gmatclub!
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 26 Oct 2008, 22:26
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This is a difficult time for all of you, but lets not forget to be nice. have differing opinions, but keep them relevant.

lively discussions are most welcome and there is definitely room for strong opinions - If I feel the need to put others down to feel better about myself, it won't be long before gmatclub becomes associated with the behavior that is a part of some forums.

The forum is as useful as its members want it to be. If we want like minded and inclusive members to join us, we should all put in a little effort. All we need to do is share what we know and be nice.

Sorry if I am repetitive. everytime something like this happens, it is our failure to communicate what gmatclub is about. we are serious about the community thing and i hope you see the benefits of what members in the past have done for us.

have fun.
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Some last year admission stats from admissions411 27 Oct 2008, 01:34
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solaris1
nadtrans
It is totally unfair if a more qualified candidate is rejected in favor of a less qualified candidate

And you're judging the "qualifications" of a candidate based on what - GMAT and GPA alone? Sorry, but that's incredibly shortsighted.
Show more

Solaris, the fact of the life will remain that such people get hired by the best firms of the world, then go to the top business schools. I am not

one of them, but this is what people see and form their opinions upon
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