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Re: Summarizing 20 years of US News & World Report Rankings [#permalink]
Awesome work, some good stuff! I definitely think it should be HS/WB these days, but maybe I am a little bias... :)

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Re: Summarizing 20 years of US News & World Report Rankings [#permalink]
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Thank you, Regenerate, for sharing all that detailed information. If you do not mind my asking, why did you start the project in the first place? Does business school lie in your own future? In any case, I can see you possess a fondness for mathematics.

Right back at you: good luck in your endeavors, whatever they may be.

- Andrew
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Re: Summarizing 20 years of US News & World Report Rankings [#permalink]
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Regenerate - are you an admissions consultant or a writer or an applicant or?

Thanks for posting. I agree, yes, there are some interesting trends you can observe when charting the trends but we have the last 13 years, not 20.... though as a few people mentioned that all these TIES are really annoying when there are 6 or 7 spots really in the Top20 :roll:

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Re: Summarizing 20 years of US News & World Report Rankings [#permalink]
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bb ... I'm just a guy considering whether or not an MBA makes sense for me at this stage of my career. I enjoy analysis and research, and communicating what I find to others in hopes they find it helpful. If there is anything I can do for you, don't hesitate to let me know. :) Thanks!

And, yes, I'd seen your chart. I, like others, sometime digest data in different ways; I thought I'd take a stab at constructing it a bit differently and delivering different perspectives on the same set of information built with the same assumptions. I like your chart. :)
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Re: Summarizing 20 years of US News & World Report Rankings [#permalink]
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Awesome!!! Forgive me for asking you a direct question. We’ve had people repost some cool posts and then a wave of spam comes after that so I was wondering if I should be bracing for that :lol:

Glad that is not the case. Thrilled to have you and thank you for the analysis. Very interesting way of thinking about it. I really like your summary of the long term ranking stickiness.

Welcome to GMAT Club!
(Lowering the shotgun) :cool:


Regenerate wrote:
bb ... I'm just a guy considering whether or not an MBA makes sense for me at this stage of my career. I enjoy analysis and research, and communicating what I find to others in hopes they find it helpful. If there is anything I can do for you, don't hesitate to let me know. :) Thanks!

And, yes, I'd seen your chart. I, like others, sometime digest data in different ways; I thought I'd take a stab at constructing it a bit differently and delivering different perspectives on the same set of information built with the same assumptions. I like your chart. :)


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Re: Summarizing 20 years of US News & World Report Rankings [#permalink]
MentorTutoring wrote:
Thank you, Regenerate, for sharing all that detailed information. If you do not mind my asking, why did you start the project in the first place? Does business school lie in your own future? In any case, I can see you possess a fondness for mathematics.

Right back at you: good luck in your endeavors, whatever they may be.

- Andrew


Thanks Andrew. Yes, I'm considering applying for an MBA. I really enjoy disassembling complex inputs in an effort to extract actionable information, and the communicate that to others as they pursue their own goals.

Facts are good things. Facts in context are invaluable.
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Re: Summarizing 20 years of US News & World Report Rankings [#permalink]
Update: If you want to consider volatility as a proxy for uncertainty / instability, this list below might be of interest.

Standard Deviation / Average Score

...............

Harvard -- 1.2 / 1.6 = 0.75
Stanford GSB -- 0.9 / 1.7 = 0.53
Penn (Wharton) -- 1.0 / 2.8 = 0.36
MIT (Sloan) -- 0.7 / 4.3 = 0.16
Northwestern (Kellogg) -- 1.0 / 4.5 = 0.22
Chicago (Booth) -- 2.0 / 4.9 = 0.41
Berkeley (Haas) -- 1.1 / 7.4 = 0.15
Columbia -- 1.2 / 7.9 = 0.15
Dartmouth (Tuck) -- 1.4 / 9.1 = 0.15
Duke (Fuqua) -- 2.2 / 11.1 = 0.20
Michigan (Ross) -- 1.6 / 11.4 = 0.14
Yale SOM -- 2.4 / 12.0 = 0.20
NYU (Stern) -- 2.4 / 12.1 = 0.20
Virginia (Darden) -- 1.8 / 12.7 = 0.14
UCLA (Anderson) -- 2.1 / 14.2 = 0.15
Cornell (Johnson) -- 1.5 / 16.0 = 0.09
Carnegie Mellon (Tepper) -- 2.3 / 18.4 = 0.13
Texas (McCombs) -- 2.5 / 18.4 = 0.14
UNC (Kenan-Flagler) -- 2.9 / 20.6 = 0.14
Emory (Goizueta) -- 3.4 / 22.8 = 0.15

...........

The lesson ... like a good growth stock, top MBA programs have high (pseudo) betas. MIT is a notable outlier.

By comparison, Cornell looks like a preferred stock or maybe a convertible bond.

Duke, Yale and NYU are notably more volatile than other similarly respected schools ... indicating an increased risk they fall and damage your expensive diploma ... and ... an increased opportunity your degree from one of those schools might go up without you having to do anything!

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Re: Summarizing 20 years of US News & World Report Rankings [#permalink]
It occurred to me last night as I was thinking about rankings that it seems like every year they change the way they calculate the ranks.

I have no way to go back to standardize the base formula across time.

While I get that the world changes and the formula needs a tweak every now and then, it always felt to me like the change occurred just so they could have something to talk about. And that always bugged me.

So, take everything above with an even bigger grain of salt.

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Summarizing 20 years of US News & World Report Rankings [#permalink]
Seems like you didn’t come across the source below that has the historical data going back to 1990 for the current Top 20 “ish” schools:
https://www.mba50.com/a-history-of-the-u ... 1990-2013/

You’ll find a number of sources if you specifically google “us news mba rankings historical”

Definitely shouldn’t be filling in historical data if you don’t have any just to “extrapolate” a full dataset. As you’ll see in the earlier years of the source I sent, CBS and Haas flipped places with Ross and Fuqua over the years. Also, it further shows the legacy perception of why Booth won’t be H/S/W even though modern rankings have them in the Top 3, unless Booth keeps it up for maybe 1-2 decades.

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Originally posted by bigge2win on 07 May 2020, 09:03.
Last edited by bigge2win on 07 May 2020, 09:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Summarizing 20 years of US News & World Report Rankings [#permalink]
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Also, a few other thoughts since I was able to read through all your posts in this thread.

1) On your first post under the section with the ranges of standard deviations, the data doesn’t actually support stuff you’ve mentioned that could be reasonably argued, like certain schools that are likely to fall outside the Top 25. For example, Tepper has the same average (18.4) and lower-bound range (23) as McCombs, but you didn’t mention them as likely to fall out of the Top 25. Also, the comment about Ross where you grouped Duke with Booth, Tuck, and CBS seems like you didn’t come to the proper conclusions where it’s Fuqua and Ross together since the data is showing Fuqua as equivalent to Ross and not the other 3 schools. There seems to be some lack of consistency in how you’re interpreting the data to even come up with your arguments.

2) On your recent post about dividing standard deviations with averages to get volatility, that seems like an apples to oranges calculation. Why wouldn’t you divide standard deviation by the difference of the range of highest and lowest rank to get volatility instead since that’s more accurately apples to apples? Dividing SD to average will yield noise further up the rankings since you’ll always divide by a smaller number. It’s a skewed metric.

3) less about your methodology, but more of a comment about the schools. USC has been climbing the rankings and shows some stickiness in the Top 20-25, so they’d be good to observe in the coming years.

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Re: Summarizing 20 years of US News & World Report Rankings [#permalink]
bigge2win ... thanks for the feedback ... without replying line item by line item ... I didn't have the data you provided; thank you. I did the best I had with what I had; not extrapolating in years with missing data would have yielded a whole other sort of error. I mentioned that above.

If I left Tepper (or any other school) out of an obvious reference, it was more of a proofreading error than an analytical error, or worse, a desire to create confusion.

Regarding the bunching of Ross / Fuqua / Darden / NYU / Yale, they seemed to me like they fit together as a messy group than trying to parse the admittedly imperfect analysis even more finely. I'd much much much rather be generally right than precisely wrong.

I believe your volatility metric may have value. I'd want to model it before having an opinion; I appreciate you sharing it. That doesn't mean the one used does not have value, though. You might notice that after the first half dozen schools, all the rest bunch into two groups ... those at 0.13-0.15 and those at 0.20 ... except one (Cornell) that's a very boring 0.09.

Regarding USC and their stickiness ... I have only a limited opinion. We will see if it holds up over the next few years. I expect to have a more fully formed opinion by the time the class starting this fall graduates.

Again, thank you for the feedback. If I have a chance to do this again, I'll keep it all in mind. :)

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Summarizing 20 years of US News & World Report Rankings [#permalink]
Regenerate wrote:
bigge2win ... thanks for the feedback ... without replying line item by line item ... I didn't have the data you provided; thank you. I did the best I had with what I had; not extrapolating in years with missing data would have yielded a whole other sort of error. I mentioned that above.

If I left Tepper (or any other school) out of an obvious reference, it was more of a proofreading error than an analytical error, or worse, a desire to create confusion.

Regarding the bunching of Ross / Fuqua / Darden / NYU / Yale, they seemed to me like they fit together as a messy group than trying to parse the admittedly imperfect analysis even more finely. I'd much much much rather be generally right than precisely wrong.

I believe your volatility metric may have value. I'd want to model it before having an opinion; I appreciate you sharing it. That doesn't mean the one used does not have value, though. You might notice that after the first half dozen schools, all the rest bunch into two groups ... those at 0.13-0.15 and those at 0.20 ... except one (Cornell) that's a very boring 0.09.

Regarding USC and their stickiness ... I have only a limited opinion. We will see if it holds up over the next few years. I expect to have a more fully formed opinion by the time the class starting this fall graduates.

Again, thank you for the feedback. If I have a chance to do this again, I'll keep it all in mind. :)

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Hmm, wondering how you’d get an error if certain schools don’t have a ranking. Are you just running a formula across values even if they’re blank? You could create formulas to dynamically adjust based on whether your dataset is populated or has a blank value, which won’t give you errors.

Also, it looks like my Ross and Fuqua comment didn’t make sense to you. It wasn’t about them being bunch with their peers (Darden, Stern, SOM). It was regarding the following point you made that I’m pasting below:
“ It also means that while Chicago (Booth), Berkeley (Haas), Columbia, Dartmouth (Tuck) and Duke (Fuqua) are all ahead of Michigan (Ross) today, there does exist a possibility Michigan (Ross) could find themselves ranked in front of all of those schools at some point in the next two decades.”

Not sure why you’d put Fuqua with those other 4 unless it was simply because Fuqua was above Ross. But Fuqua was only 0.3 above Ross as opposed to being 2-6 behind Booth/Tuck/Haas/CBS. So your observation seemed a bit nonsensical or not as valid.

Curious to how additional analysis would look like, if/when you run that.
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Re: Summarizing 20 years of US News & World Report Rankings [#permalink]
The error was explained above.

Essentially, if (say) School AAA is usually ranked between 9-15, but in a particular year, a year I only had the top 20 ... and School AAA isn't anywhere to be found (meaning it's at least #21 and possibly lower) ... how should that be treated?

Do we calculate the average based only on the actual ranks we have, or do we add in a rank for the missing year that's AT LEAST a 21?

Leaving it out of the average artificially lowers the average vs what we know it should be from the inference that the missing year resulted in an outlier (low) ranking ... which also would have a big impact on their standard deviation.

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Summarizing 20 years of US News & World Report Rankings [#permalink]
Regenerate wrote:
The error was explained above.

Essentially, if (say) School AAA is usually ranked between 9-15, but in a particular year, a year I only had the top 20 ... and School AAA isn't anywhere to be found (meaning it's at least #21 and possibly lower) ... how should that be treated?

Do we calculate the average based only on the actual ranks we have, or do we add in a rank for the missing year that's AT LEAST a 21?

Leaving it out of the average artificially lowers the average vs what we know it should be from the inference that the missing year resulted in an outlier (low) ranking ... which also would have a big impact on their standard deviation.

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I see what you mean. I guess it’s a difference of opinion on the approach. Extrapolating volatile/unpredictable data adds noise, so it’s a tricky balance to make. The approach with missing data goes three ways - just use data you have and calculate it so that you’re only averaging the years available for a school (which doesn’t artificially make the rank look better since you have a different denominator for those schools); you exclude the years with incomplete data for all schools; or do exactly as you did which is manufacture data based on some judgment on the assumptions to fill in missing data.

To my point with not filling in the data, say you only have 8 years for Emory and not 10 years for a set of 10 years. If it hovers around 22-25 and you generate rankings that get it around 27-30 for the missing years, then you’ve skewed the data based on that assumption. If you determine the average for only those 8 years, then it’s more accurate.

It’s all somewhat of a moot point now because you have the data back to 1990 in the link I provided.
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