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The fanatical, young group of girls have been waiting in the concert

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Re: The fanatical, young group of girls have been waiting in the concert  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Mar 2019, 14:56
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marus wrote:
The fanatical, young group of girls have been waiting in the concert line all night by the time the tickets go on sale.

(A) have been waiting in the concert line all night

(B) will have been waiting in the concert line each night

(C) will have been waiting in the concert line the entire night

(D) had been waiting in the concert line all night

(E) has been waiting in the concert line the whole night


The easiest error to spot is the SV agreement error in A and E: "Young group...have?" A and B are out
Next Verb Tense: because the sentence is talking about a future condition, you need "will" D and E are out

That leaves C as the correct answer!
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Re: The fanatical, young group of girls have been waiting in the concert  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Mar 2019, 21:31
will have done is used to say an action which is finished at the point of time in the future or in the present
by next sunday, I will have been a winner of gmat.
by now, she will have been at home.
only choice C fit this use.

choice b is wrong because "each night" show a repeated action for which, present simple or simple future is used.
by 7 am every morning, i will get up

am i correct at this point? pls, comment or dispute
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Re: The fanatical, young group of girls have been waiting in the concert  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Mar 2019, 22:09
aalekhoza wrote:
Dear experts, I completely understand that the meaning of the sentence get's altered if we choose option E in this question, but isn't option c grammatically incorrect?

How can "have been" refer to a singular subject "group".
Is it that when such questions arise Meaning >>> Grammar?
IMO, such questions won't come on actual GMAT. What is the source of the question?

Kindly throw some light on this to resolve my confusion.
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Option C neatly sidesteps the whole singular/plural issue by opting for a verb that doesn't change with the subject. The first thing to do here is recognize that the verb in option C is not have been. It is will have been waiting. Try switching from a singular subject to a plural subject in a sentence that has a will and check whether there is any change in the verb. You'll find that the verb remains the same.

1. Future perfect continuous
1a. He will have been waiting...
1b. They will have been waiting...

Things could, of course, change if we switch to a different tense.

2. Present perfect continuous
2a. He has been waiting...
2b. They have been waiting...
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Re: The fanatical, young group of girls have been waiting in the concert  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Mar 2019, 22:11
thangvietnam wrote:
will have done is used to say an action which is finished at the point of time in the future or in the present
by next sunday, I will have been a winner of gmat.
by now, she will have been at home.
only choice C fit this use.

choice b is wrong because "each night" show a repeated action for which, present simple or simple future is used.
by 7 am every morning, i will get up

am i correct at this point? pls, comment or dispute
You've got the right idea, but remember that you're looking for (a) something in the future and (b) something in the later future. This means that your second example is not correct, as now does not indicate a time or event in the future.

By now, she will have been at home.
By this time tomorrow, she will have been at home for more than a week.
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Re: The fanatical, young group of girls have been waiting in the concert  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Mar 2019, 00:49
habit can be shown by simple present or future tense, do and will do
he will get up by 5 am every day
he get up by 5 am every day.

am i correct at this point?
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Re: The fanatical, young group of girls have been waiting in the concert  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Mar 2019, 03:22
thangvietnam wrote:
habit can be shown by simple present or future tense, do and will do
he will get up by 5 am every day
he get up by 5 am every day.

am i correct at this point?
Yes, the future tense can be used to discuss some (future) regular action or habit. The difference between the two examples you gave is that the present tense indicates that the habit is already in place and could continue, while the future tense does not establish that the habit is already in place, only that it will be in place in the future.

Also, in case it helps, we must write he gets..., not he get.
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Re: The fanatical, young group of girls have been waiting in the concert  [#permalink]

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New post 28 Mar 2019, 16:28
Thinking about all night or each night is rather irrational than the entire night with respect to the intended meaning of the sentence
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The fanatical, young group of girls have been waiting in the concert  [#permalink]

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New post 28 Mar 2019, 17:02
marus wrote:
The fanatical, young group of girls have been waiting in the concert line all night by the time the tickets go on sale.

(A) have been waiting in the concert line all night

(B) will have been waitingin the concert line each night

(C) will have been waiting in the concert line the entire night

(D) had been waiting in the concert line all night

(E) has been waiting in the concert line the whole night


Yashir wrote:
Thinking about all night or each night is rather irrational than the entire night with respect to the intended meaning of the sentence

Yashir , I don't understand your comment.

All night, the whole night, and the entire night are all acceptable forms
of expressing a complete period of time.

What distinction are you making between all night and the entire night?

"Each" night is absurd, I agree. We can eliminate (B).

But after that we have to look at the verbs.
sudarshan22 , wrote a masterful post, here.
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Re: The fanatical, young group of girls have been waiting in the concert  [#permalink]

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New post 28 Mar 2019, 18:01
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generis
all night, the whole night, and the entire night are all 100% perfect to express a time-frame. However, my explanation was half without considering the tense and verb of the given sentence. Additionally, my understanding of all night was consecutive nights for a longer period of time. The concept was wrong after all.

GMAT doesn't approve colloquial English when the meaning and the structure of the sentences are examined.
sudarshan22 gave a perfect clarification on the given sentence.
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Re: The fanatical, young group of girls have been waiting in the concert  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Aug 2019, 03:33
egmat wrote:
Hi,

@marus: This sentence needs careful reading. Read the portion “by the time tickets go on sale.” This suggests a future action. We know that the tickets are not up for sale yet. They will be sold some time in the future.

This understanding helps us in eliminating choice E as it is written in the present perfect tense and hence leads to inconsistency in tense in the sentence.

With choice E, the sentence reads: The fanatical, young group of girls has been waiting in the concert line the whole night by the time the tickets go on sale.
The present perfect tense “has been waiting” denotes an action that has already begun in some time in the past and is continuing in the present as well. It renders the sense that the group of girls has already begun to wait in the line for the tickets which will be sold sometime in the future. This is not the logical intended meaning of the sentence.
The logical intended meaning of the sentence is that By the time the tickets will be up for sale, these girls will have been waiting in the line already.

Take this example: By the time Joe appears for the exam, he will have been completely prepared. The sense of the sentence is that by the time Joe will appear for the exam, he will be completely prepared.
However, we do not if he is completely prepared in the present or not. The sentence says nothing about the present. It talks about a situation that is yet to happen.

We cannot say: By the time Joe appears for the exam, he has been completely prepared. “has been prepared” suggests that Joe is already prepared in the present and it does not relate to the event that will take place in the future, i. e. appearing for the exam.

In the very same way, the original sentence is also talking about a situation that is yet to happen. Hence we must use future tense to correspond the related event with that future event only. Again, understanding the intended logical meaning of the sentence is the key here to use the correct verb tense knowledge.

Choice C correctly conveys the logical intended meaning of the sentence: The fanatical, young group of girls will have been waiting in the concert line the entire night by the time the tickets go on sale. This choice clearly says that by the time the tickets will be up for sale, the girls will already be standing in the line from the previous night.
Say for example if the tickets will be sold on February 3, the girls will already have been standing in the line from the night of February 2.

Hope this helps.
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great explanation. but permit me to post more

future perfect is explained in the book "advanced grammar in use ". this tense is used to show an action which is finished before a point of time in FUTURE OR PRESENT. . this mean it can show an action happen in the past.

by now, he will have finished the gmat test and will have become a Havard student.
by tomorow, he will have finished the gmat test.

we can not say that " by the time the ticket go on sale" show a future time. it can show a present or future time.

by now, the time at which the tickets go on sale, he will have waited for 3 hours.

"by the time ticket go on sale " whether it show present or future point of time, can be fit with "will have done" and choice C is good.

but how to eliminate choice E.

present perfect shows an action which continue until present or finished at a past point of time but its times frame or its context continue until present.

if "by the time ticket go on sale " is future point of time, present perfect dose not fit.

if "by the time ticket go on sale" is present point of time, present perfect still dose not fit because

"by+time marker" implies that context and action finished before present . THIS IS KEY POINT to explain why by+time marker can go with future perfect and past perfect but not with present perfect.

so, present perfect showing action continued until present or action's context continued until present dose not fit with by+time marker.

by+time marker can normally go with past perfect, if the phrase show past point of time or go will future perfect , if the phrase show present or future time and the phrase never go with present perfect.

the idiom to remember is " by+time maker " never go with present perfect but with past perfect or future perfect. rather easy to remember.

if present perfect show an action finished in the past, no time maker is used. if present perfect show an action which continue until present, "since" is used

I have passed gmat.
we never say
I have passed gmat by now.

I wish everybody talk more on why choice e is wrong while "by the time tickets go on sale" shows present point of time.

thank you
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Re: The fanatical, young group of girls have been waiting in the concert  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Aug 2019, 02:59
aalekhoza wrote:
Dear experts, I completely understand that the meaning of the sentence get's altered if we choose option E in this question, but isn't option c grammatically incorrect?

How can "have been" refer to a singular subject "group".
Is it that when such questions arise Meaning >>> Grammar?
IMO, such questions won't come on actual GMAT. What is the source of the question?

Kindly throw some light on this to resolve my confusion.
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experts through some light ,,,,,where is SC rule ???
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Re: The fanatical, young group of girls have been waiting in the concert  [#permalink]

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New post 04 Aug 2019, 04:33
marus wrote:
The fanatical, young group of girls have been waiting in the concert line all night by the time the tickets go on sale.

(A) have been waiting in the concert line all night

(B) will have been waiting in the concert line each night

(C) will have been waiting in the concert line the entire night

(D) had been waiting in the concert line all night

(E) has been waiting in the concert line the whole night


Verb tense

group of girls has/have been = group is singular but girls is plural

verb is directly in contact with girls so plural verb will be there " have "

will have to be used as future activity is mentioned
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Re: The fanatical, young group of girls have been waiting in the concert   [#permalink] 04 Aug 2019, 04:33

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