Should I pursue an MBA from a Tier 2 school

Question

So here am I with a naive query, I suppose.

I planned to apply to Tier 1 US MBA program, but I scored an avg 710 on GMAT. A consultant suggested that with a 710 I don't have a chance in the tier 1 schools and I should apply to tier 2 schools where I have a decent chance.

I am an Indian male with 7+ years of Work ex and I am currently working as a Product manager at a mid-sized product company. I think I have good work experience and above average extra-curricular. I also earn an above avg salary(~$70k in india). The primary reason I wanted to do an MBA was to get a credible brand on my resume(off course I can't mention that in the applications). My post MBA goal is to work as a Product manager in consumer tech at Google or Amazon and long term goal is to create my own venture.

I think that the investment and opportunity cost is way too high($350k and 2 years) and the ROI from a tier 2 school might not be good enough. My question is should I take the consultants advice and apply to a tier 2 MBA?

Another option I am considering is to retake GMAT and score a 740+ to be able to apply to Tier 1 school in round 2. Instead of spending my time writing applications, I can use this time to focus on the GMAT. But that would mean I won't be able to apply to schools in round 1 and if I don't get invite in round 2 then I won't have any other option. As next year would be too late for me, it basically means either a tier 1 MBA or no MBA.

Please advice on what should I do in this situation?

bb · Answer

Your POST MBA goal seems to be missing from this post and I can't really use much else from it to answer it. I think you need to consider your goals after MBA. Obviously everything is a pyramid in this world and only so many can be at the top and there are plenty of people who do not attend Harvard and seem to be doing well but there are different chances/probabilities and motivators.

P.S. I don't know what LPA is (perhaps you were asking your compatriots who understand this lingo) but I can't comment or compare it. I suggest using US dollars to communicate your pay here or to business schools and I suggest not calling Business schools/MBA/business programs "colleges". They are not colleges and if you drop that during an interview or application, it will sound very odd.

vimas · Answer

bb  - Thank you for your response. Appreciate it. 
I have updated the post based on your recommendations.

bb · Answer

Thank you for updating the post, $70K seems pretty meaningful for India based on what I know and seems would allow a very comfortable lifestyle. I don't know how taxes and housing work, but graduating from a Top 20 MBA in the US, you would be making $150K (more in some areas) on average, which is likely less money when you take into consideration the cost of living and that taxes will eat up to 30% of your income (which Europe is even worse).

I would say that if you are not planning to change industry or desperate want to move to work in the US, it is going to be hard to justify it purely financially.

On a side, getting an MBA in the us is not for faint-hearted. It is a learning experience through fire. You will be sleep-deprived, feeling rejected and insecure most of your first year, and doubting many of your choices. For those of us who had no way back or a comfortable starting point to speak of, this was an easy choice but if you are comfortable in your position and your situation, it is a harder sell. I know a number of folks get an MBA because they would like to and that's totally appropriate but it does not always pencil out. The reason the applications are down this year and the last few years is that the job market is too good and too many people are in the same boat as you are - they are making good money and have a good job. They don't feel that spending that much, going through the hassle, and getting an MBA would be a good move at this time. You have to be really committed to get an MBA and you would potentially be worse off in some respects. At the same time, it is a way to the US/different industry and that's what I think could justify the investment and trade off (just guessing here).

Side comment on age, I have heard from several older applicants (30+) who graduated at 32/33 and had a harder time getting a job since the FT job machine is often geared towards younger positions/applicants and the older guys tend to be a bit more self-confident and not as desperate so they tend to take a bit longer to get a FT offer (just something i have noticed anecdotally). Picky too perhaps

MBAPrepCoach · Answer

I think BB has some great points, to be honest. Do you need to spend this much money and time to accomplish your goal? Is the brand factor holding you back from making $350K more? What kind of job/hours would you have to work to pay off loans?

Often people do an MBA with a goal of entrepreneurship but the sick irony is that being an entrepreneur, you need to forgo a salary at first and that is hard to do with a big ass student loan.

Do not get an MBA for the prestige factor alone, that would really be shooting yourself in the foot. I would strongly recommend you hop on Linked In with other Indian PMs at FANG companies who have a top MBA (or tier 2 MBA.) Find out if they would do it again. Really, I sincerely hope you do this.

If you are sure about this and want to apply now - well, unfortunately agree with the consultant. Indians need to have a GMAT that is 20 points over the class average to become viable contenders. That means you are limited to programs with a 690 GMAT, and most top tier programs have 700+ averages.

Your GMAT now will qualify you for some European schools like HEC and IESE where they like older candidates and there is less pressure on the GMAT. Might try for LBS as a reach. Another option would be to apply to MIT Sloan Fellows where they are looking for mid career professionals.

Not sure about your age but if you are hell bent on an MBA, work your hardest at the GMAT this year and if it does not pan out try the GRE. Then apply to EARLY DEADLINES - Darden, Duke, CBS, UNC, IESE - or R1 for other schools. This early thing is very key to success for Indians. I think you would be better off to wait than apply R2 that is not competitive for your profile group for top US schools.

Spend the time you have left to improve your profile in ways possible short term 
 https://mbaessaycoaching.com/category/pre-mba/

vimas · Answer

Thank you  bb  for you response! 
I truly believe that an MBA from a tier 1 school would pan out well in the long term both financially as well career wise. I don't plan to have a drastic change in the industry, but I believe that MBA would open doors for opportunities in the same industry that I may not be eligible for otherwise. So I am willing to take the chance. But my concern is whether a tier 2 MBA program would provide me a similar value in the longer term.

vimas · Answer

MBAPrepCoach  - Great advice about reaching out to the PMs who have gone through similar experiences. I would definitely do it.
Unfortunately I would be 30 next year and I believe it would get too late by then. If I don't get through this year, should I go for an executive MBA or a 1 year MBA from Europe?

Rony26 · Answer

MBAPrepCoach  - How is "Indian" defined? Do b-schools go by country of birth or country of citizenship?

MBAPrepCoach · Answer

Well, normally I would say citizenship but what is relevant here is the applicant pool. The applicant pool for Indians is giant no matter where they live. Which puts upward pressure on the GMAT.

MBAPrepCoach · Answer

No,  visat  30 is not at all too old for your particular goal. Best to wait (work on GMAT/profile) and follow the advice I gave you. .

quote="visat"] MBAPrepCoach  - Great advice about reaching out to the PMs who have gone through similar experiences. I would definitely do it.
Unfortunately I would be 30 next year and I believe it would get too late by then. If I don't get through this year, should I go for an executive MBA or a 1 year MBA from Europe?

MBADecoder · Answer

I have a slightly different take on this. Higher education is a big thing in India and most people want t do an MS/ MBA / other certifications as a way to progress in their careers. So for Indians, there is a big emotional aspect to doing an MBA. I always tell applicants who I talk to that if you feel strongly about an MBA go ahead and do it. Its not something you should regret later in life. Visat, I am going to stick with the same advice for you. However, BB and Farrell have given you some solid advice. Do the research they have advised you on. If you continue feeling strongly about the MBA, then take the plunge. You still have round 2 to retake GMAT and apply then. Put your best foot forward, which matters more for an Indian applicant given the competition. Also, its a wasted chance to rush through applications when you have the comfort of another deadline.

Regarding b-school choice - I am going to suggest that you apply to programs that have good employment statistics in the technology industry. Product manager roles are quite common after b-school, so you will have quite a choice of b-schools, even with your current score. Eventually, an MBA is what you make out of it. You don't necessarily have to go to a top tier to get the in-class/ outside-class/ networking opportunities that will be relevant/valuable for you.

Hope that makes sense

Regarding b-school choice - I am going to suggest that you apply to programs that have good employment statistics in the technology industry. Product manager roles are quite common after b-school, so you will have quite a choice of b-schools, even with your current score. Eventually, an MBA is what you make out of it. You don't necessarily have to go to a top tier to get the in-class/ outside-class/ networking opportunities that will be relevant/valuable for you.

Hope that makes sense

bb · Answer

Agree. I don’t think applying in R2 will be that much of a downside vs R1. You can always include some lower ranked safety schools in R2 just in case if you change your mind and next year is not the end of the world but as an Indian you need a 750+ score for the top 10. Sorry

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MBAPrepCoach · Answer

If you don't have a high GMAT, R2 is not ideal for Indians but OK but if you have a GMAT 740 or lower you have to kill the application and you have to apply early. Applying R2 with a 710 is not going to work, I'm afraid. I think the advantage of having time to do the exam to the best of your ability, apply EA or R1, take your time on the applications and do them well, and possibly develop your already existing ECs to establish more positive impact is the way to do, myself.

bb · Answer

It would be interesting to analyze data for Indian Applicants for R1 vs R2 admissions stats based on the decision tracker. I have not done it... just talking to myself mostly and in case someone has done it already.

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Narenn · Answer

I had analyzed acceptance rates of Indian applicants at US schools but that was based mostly on GMAT, Edu background, industry etc factors. I did not calculate the acceptance rates of different admission rounds. Let me see if I still have that survey sample saved on my laptop. BTW, here is the analysis of acceptance rates of Indian applicants https://gmatclub.com/forum/mba-admissio ... 39142.html

Narenn · Answer

Ok guys, I found the survey sample and I've calculated acceptance rates of Indians vs all applicants in R1 & R2. Here are the findings...

Acceptance Rates: Top 20 Schools 
   R1 
  India: 5% 
 All Applicants 13%   
  R2 
  India: 6% 
 All Applicants: 16%

Acceptance Rates: Top 21-50 Schools 
   R1 
  India: 18% 
 All Applicants 25%   
  R2 
  India: 20% 
 All Applicants: 33%

*Sample size of this survey: 35K

Top 20 Schools: 
Harvard, Wharton, Booth, Stanford, MIT Sloan, Kellogg, Haas, Tuck, Yale, Columbia
Ross, Fuqua, Stern, Darden, Anderson, Johnson, McCombs, Kenan-Flagler, Tepper, Goizueta

Top 21-50 Schools: 
McDonough, Olin (St Louis), Kelley, USC Marshall, Vanderbilt, Arizona State (Carey), Fisher, Foster, 
Jones (Rice), Mendoza, Scheller, Carlson, Temple (Fox), BYU Marriott, Madison, Smeal
Michigan Broad, Mays (Texas A&M), Naveen Jindal, Hough Florida, Illinois MBA, UC Davis
Simon, Merage, Carroll, Questrom, Smith, Terry, Eller, Krannert

vimas · Answer

MBADecoder  - Thank you for the encouragement. I am planning to go for a retake and apply to R2 with a higher score. I think a higher score would make me competitive for the top 15 schools. Thanks again for your suggestions.

vimas · Answer

Narenn  - This is really encouraging. Although the acceptance rate for Indians is way too less, it is good to know R1 and R2 does not make a difference. 
I would like to analyze the decision tracker data. Is there a way for me to extract the decision tracker data?

ArtVandaley · Answer

If 70k USD is purely converted based on exchange rate, and if you want to stay in India post MBA, I will recommend that MBA might not be that good an investment.

The devil lies in details. Since the PPP rate of dollar to rupee is ~17. You pay 68 RS to gain something that is equivalent of only 17. This is a big factor to consider.

On the other hand, if you take a loan, you will have to save 4x the amount an average American student would have to save to pay off the loan(considering you opt to work in India post MBA)

If you look at an MBA purely from the perspective of migrating to USA for better life, the PPP doesn't come into picture as you will be both earning and paying off in dollars. Plus, considering the poor work culture, you get to live in a country that offers far superior quality of life (the value of which can surpass all the economic expenditures).

Consider this variables in your problem and see what solution shines out

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ArtVandaley · Answer

That's tremendously helpful. Do you have the entire data. Probably I can sort it based on school and we can publish the stats here

PS:- I just talked to Indians in Harvard and your findings corroborate with what they had to say. Harvard admits only 40 students from India (it's class size is ~920).

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Should I pursue an MBA from a Tier 2 school

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