First year blues

Question

Interesting few articles that were published in the Harbus recently about first year students and the high rate of depression.

Any first years at other schools care to comment?

https://www.harbus.org/news/2008/11/24/N ... 9989.shtml

https://www.harbus.org/news/2008/11/24/V ... 0031.shtml

https://www.harbus.org/news/2008/11/24/V ... 0026.shtml

https://www.harbus.org/news/2008/11/24/V ... 0032.shtml

terp26 · Answer

very productive today agold , you should get you mod status back in no time

nink · Answer

One of the contents (one about confessing suicide thoughts and jumping off bridge) in the article sounds very familiar (almost word for word) to a passage in Ahead of Curve.....

Rubashov1 · Answer

Hmmm, well I consider driving into the river by that bridge almost every day on my way home from work, so I guess my life won't change much if I get into HBS.

Audio · Answer

I haven't read the article, but I don't see any reason to be depressed! We're protected from the crisis (class of 2010), there are parties all the time, study requirements are minimal, drinking is abundant, there's loads of time for sports (I go on tour with rugby or soccer team almost every month), how can life be any better?? :-D

agold · Answer

"Every year the staff of the Mental Health Services department sees about 140 HBS students. That's about 1 out of every 11 people. That's 7 people in YOUR section alone. Not to mention the fact that there are many HBS students who go see outside providers without ever going through University Health Services."

egy · Answer

Should be 1 out of 13 /me thinks. Otherwise the math doesn't add up.

agold · Answer

Blame the writers

egy · Answer

hehe yep.

still a scary story though. thanks for posting them.

agold · Answer

I can identify with the struggle to maintain appearances story and I can see how it would be a huge issue not just at HBS, but most of the M7 schools. Everyone seems to feel pressure to build that "strong network" among your classmates and to keep up a good reputation. I also think that a lot of people probably go to school and during their first month think to themselves "How the heck did I get admitted to this place? Everyone else is so much more accomplished than me."

egy · Answer

Definitely understand as well.

It would be nice if there were a little button you could anonymously push on your desk that would signal that the concept being discussed isn't understood. Whenever the number of pushes is above some threshold (say 10), the prof. would stop and explain what's going on.

Of course, sometimes you just do need to suck it up and catch up later when you aren't able to follow. There's definitely a balance that needs to be found.

riverripper · Answer

I think that this is probably common at many schools and has been happening for a longtime. As much fun as school is, its not as easy and fun as you think its going to be. At times you feel like there never is enough time in the day to accomplish what you need to do. Factor in a wife/husband and things can quickly become complicated. I think one advantage of uprooting your life and moving is that you dont have friends and family in the area complaining they never see you. If you are dating and choose to go the long distance relationship, there is a very good chance you wont last through 1st semester. I know people here who were with gf/bfs for years and are already done. Those still together are drifting apart, many went from talking daily for an hour or two to every week or so.

Feeling overwhelmed is going to be common at top schools at times. You are in a class of 60 or so other equally intelligent and talented people, so you no longer are going to be the super star. You will apply for positions and wont get them, you will apply for jobs and will not get them, you will get beat out by classmates for things you want. There are so many interesting and exciting things to do, that you a lot of people spread themselves to thin. Here this is known as fear of mission out (FOMO)...there are people who commit to a ton of activities only to realize they bit off more than they can chew. This only gets worse when this starts to effect group work for classes...trust me you dont want the reputation of being the person who doesnt pull their weight because they are involved in too many extra curriculars. You will be well known by classmates, and the butt of jokes...and going forward no one is going to want to work with you no matter how smart and nice you are.

There is very little you can do ahead of time other than research companies you want to work for. Trust me as a person who created huge files on some of my target companies that really can be a huge asset. For one, it saves a ton of time but also you can eliminate companies you aren't interested in so you dont waste time going to tons of presentations.

Another thing to do before school is have some nice sit down heart to hearts with your significant other (if you have one). You need to really be honest before school starts with your significant other and yourself...you arent going to see them as much as either of you would like. Even when you are home you will spend more time working on cases than just relaxing with them. Be upfront about this, dont sugar coat it. No promises about being home by 7pm every night. Once you know your schedule immediately block off a few nights a week when you wont meet after some reasonable hour and spend that with your significant other...once its in your schedule dont do work during that time. Trust me, I know people who are having relationship issues that could easily be avoided if they actually set aside time and didnt sign up for so many activities.

However, school also can be tons of fun. You learn lots of fascinating things. Personally, case work is far more interesting than engineering work back in undergrad. There are tons of social events...heck recruiting events are very social if you want them to be, there are those who act like its their job and dont enjoy it which probably shows to recruiters and isnt going to be very attractive. There are lots of parties, dinners with friends, intermural sports (though we are older and more fragile these days), and lots of fun things to do.

I dont know what its like at other schools but I could see some being worse than here for stress level. Its not a highly competitve environment here, people live close by so its easy to run home for dinner with the wife before going to a recruiting event. It would be interest to ask current students what the stress level is like but honestly I think at many schools, students would not be very honest with perspectives. Could be worth asking though.

agold · Answer

Great perspectives river. Kudos.

If any other first year students would like to share their thoughts, it would be greatly appreciated as well.

IHateTheGMAT · Answer

Thanks for the awesome post. +1

msday · Answer

great posts by both terp and river...kudos to both!

highhopes · Answer

They should do a study...it would be interesting to know if b-school had any role in causing depression or if everyone was just depressed by the time they got there (probably from filling out too many b-school apps

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ryguy904 · Answer

another great post from rr. +1

bherronp · Answer

I think River summed it up very well. The FOMO causes most people (including myself) to try to do too many things. This leads to streams of days like I am just finishing where I have done some sort of school related work or activity from 7am-10pm (on the shorter days) for the last 9 days or so. The grind starts to get to you after a while, but you just have to keep in mind how much you're learning, the fun that you do get to have, and that winter break is coming soon. Though winter break just means no classes so I can concentrate on getting ready for interviews.

Praetorian · Answer

welcome back biatch.

this post is one of many examples where the simple rule of sharing everything you know and being nice works so well. your generosity of sharing something valuable will only multiply. you will learn so much more in return.

don't live like an island. don't be a jerk (i am excused). don't call me repetitive, ok ignore this one. understand the power of working together.

The faculty don't have it easy either. try getting tenure at any of the top schools, especially chicago. It is a six year nightmare and only 10-20% make tenure.

phdizzle · Answer

Nice post, river! +1. I've been thinking about this stuff a lot because I'm very curious as to how well I'll fit in at bschool when I go. Here are a few random thoughts... This discussion of feeling inadequate relative to your peers reminds me so much of my pre-college worries. When I got into my top choice school I was thrilled at first, but then I got really scared. I knew I was a hotshot in high school, but I was convinced that geniuses in college would run circles around me. I was super nervous for my first exams and felt like I had to prove that I belonged at that school. Looking back that all seems so comical, now that I'm in grad school and take classes so much less seriously. I don't want to blame Al Gore's Internet, but I think forums like this were what stoked my fears back then. I read about all the 1600 SATs, published researchers, and Kilimanjaro-climbers who got rejected, and I thought, "I'm nothing compared to them." But if you really trust that the admissions office doesn't make mistakes (as they told us

) and you have a reason to be at your school, you'll find your niche. Yes, I got my butt kicked sometimes in college (which never happened in HS), and yeah I was torn up about it, but sometimes I really excelled. You just need to know what your unique strengths are--you have them, and so does everyone else. I had a very very low "stupid question" threshold in classes and office hours and I just asked anything that came to mind, if I couldn't figure it out after giving it some thought. Well, I found out that my professors, TAs, and classmates really appreciated that. Everyone says there's no such thing as a stupid question; that might not be strictly true, but the fact is, if you're smart enough to get into HBS, GSB, etc., you will ask good questions. I think this fear of coming across as dumb exists at any super-competitive school (undergrad, bschool, law, or whatever). I had several friends confide this concern to me, even though I knew they were really bright people. The effort of keeping up appearances does take its toll. I found out (after years of knowing them) that some of my friends were on antidepressants. I still remember those freshman year bonding activities when people would reveal that their family lives were in shambles, or they were gay but couldn't tell their parents, or felt like they had no friends, or had gotten an STD. I thought, these people are some of the most talented folks in the world, yet they're so vulnerable and mortal just like everyone else. People have problems , maybe especially so in competitive environments because their fear of seeming inferior only adds to those problems. OK, I know that had nothing to do with bschool specifically, but I still think it applies, since all the worries and concerns now sound exactly the same as the college ones did. Add a spouse/kids and the extra pressure of having had a career before bschool and it probably only gets worse...

First year blues

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