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26 May 2010, 18:30
Kudos
Bookmarks
Age: 28
Asian Female
Undergraduate: Carnegie Mellon University
History Policy & International Relations double major with a minor in Chinese
GPA 3.83/4.0
Target schools are:
USC (top choice)
Notre Dame
Georgetown
Carnegie Mellon
Kellogg (stretch?)
Wharton (stretch school)
Here is my GMAT breakdown:
12/2009 560 38Q 29V
03/2010 560 32Q 36V
04/2010 650 43Q 36V
05/2010 (today) 640 45Q 33V
Thanks!
Work Experience since college graduation in 2004 has been a mix of Public Relations, Fashion and Market Research for Private Equity clients
Asian Female
Undergraduate: Carnegie Mellon University
History Policy & International Relations double major with a minor in Chinese
GPA 3.83/4.0
Target schools are:
USC (top choice)
Notre Dame
Georgetown
Carnegie Mellon
Kellogg (stretch?)
Wharton (stretch school)
Here is my GMAT breakdown:
12/2009 560 38Q 29V
03/2010 560 32Q 36V
04/2010 650 43Q 36V
05/2010 (today) 640 45Q 33V
Thanks!
Work Experience since college graduation in 2004 has been a mix of Public Relations, Fashion and Market Research for Private Equity clients
26 May 2010, 23:23
Kudos
Bookmarks
Hi calisnoopy:
Thanks for reaching out to forum and I respect the tenacity with which you are approaching the GMAT. Keep at it, as admissions committees do not really care how many times you have taken the test, just that you get the right 3-digit number. Remember, the quick and dirty way is to look at your GMAT and see if it is within 20-30 points of the mean. However, I digress.
So what are you chances at the schools you listed? I have worked with a few hundred applicants over the past 8 years, and at a base level there is not enough information to evaluation if you have a "chance" at a particular business school. Why? Because after a low GMAT score (and poor undergraduate performance), the lack of clearly articulated short and long term goals is the most frequent reason for rejection. If you don't know where you are going with your career, it is hard to lay out why you have been engaging the career path you are on today. While I am sure that you do have defined goals, unfortunately, they were not mentioned in your original post.
So my first question is - what are your short and longer term career goals? That is, what do you want to be when you grow up?
In truly vetting this question and getting to goals that are consistent with both your past performance (and that make sense to the admissions committee), here is a framework for examining your candidacy methodically. Goals need to be viewed holistically and within this paradigm. Walking through the following should then help you think critically about your differentiation (I have posted bits of the following in other threads btw) and what weaknesses you may need to address.
Here is the basic paradigm in which you want to view your candidacy. I call it the MBA Acceptance Equation (TM):
GMAT (at or near the school's mean) + GPA (undergrad performance and leadership activities) + Work Experience + Personal Passions and Philanthropic Pursuits (consistent history of extracurricular leadership) + Why MBA? (describe what the degree will do in general) + Why MBA from this program? (indicated by the school's pedagogy) + Why Now? (sense of urgency)= Short Term (tactical/immediately upon graduation) + Longer Term Goals (5+ years out and waxes philosophic)
You have to hit on the above to be a competitive candidate at School X. Again, if School X is a H/S/W/K caliber, then you can easily check the rankings for the average GMAT and GPA. With a 650 GMAT, you have your answer with Kellogg and Wharton, and unfortunately, you would not be competitive with your current score. You need to get around a 700 to really be in the running at both. With the others, you will most definitely be competitive. Your exceptional GPA at a top tier program (CMU) definitely moves the needle but not enough to overcome the mid-600's GMAT. BTW, the low verbal tells me that you can improve towards a 700. You have isolated the variable (now address it.)
When you have cleared this first hurdle, you want to move onto your work experience (W/E). As far as I can tell, your W/E is "quant" in nature and is considered a "known quantity" so it going to be important to show differentiation. I am assuming that you work for a market research firm who are called upon by banks to cover certain "fashion" industries? Is this correct?
So in answering if you have a chance (beyond your GMAT score), your first question around W/E should be around the size/reputation of your firm and your leadership within it. How many other research analysts are there? How many analysts report up to you? You always want to stress leadership in this part of the MBA Acceptance Equation. So, if you work for a smaller firm, you need to stress your ability to wear many hats and work with C-level individuals and decision makers to get things done. Talk about your ability to communicate with a diversity of constituents (designers and equity analysts). Stress how your jack of all trades nature goes beyond title and formal authority. Make sure that you articulate a story where multi-faceted nature caused you to come up the curve quickly while (perhaps) helping to build an entrepreneurial organization. (Your recs HAVE to back up this story).
The same could be about a larger organization to a certain extent. However, you have to also talk about how you were a leader among peers. That is, you did not get lost in the shuffle and while there was an established hierarchy, you went above and beyond the established paradigm to ask for more authority and then fully live up to that expectation. An example of this would be a research assistant who may have been the only one entrusted with formal authority to make recommendations to client firms.
Moving onto the next part of the equation: personal passions and philanthropic pursuits (P/P/P/P):
I did not see a mention of extracurricular activities. To me, this is the variable that is most often forgotten and all else being equal, this variable separates the groupies from the rockstars. If your extracurriculars are significant, this means they maintain a logical connection to your longer term goals. Additionally, they position your as a leader and can break any type of stereotype associated with your professional background. If you are a research analyst, you man work a lot of hours so you could have little time for out of the office pursuits. However, any extracurriculars you have will help defuse a too readily placed label (e.g. that those with an analytical role are not good in a team oriented environment.) You need to break this stereotype with your P/P/P/P.
I hope you have been volunteering and showing leadership. Again, your extracurricular experiences are relevant and are only as good as they "right" leadership qualities they demonstrate. So If you are part of the volunteering crew, step up and separate yourself by asking for more leadership. If you can not do this at your current out of the office activity, my suggestion is to get out and find a new out of the office leadership activity.
As a word of caution, make sure it logically builds on your story or positioning. Don't just dive into an underwater basket weaving activity that shows leadership but is slight wacky. In fact, I would find a subject area that builds off of your professional acumen but also towards a longer term goal. Remember, the best candidates are those that have out of the office activities that marry up their professional background with a philanthropic interest that get them towards their longer term goal. Almost every candidate misses this point. Don't make that mistake.
This brings us to the Why MBA? Why this school? part of the equation. It's related to the Peter Principle and it is customized to your specific case. I know that in traditional quant careers, the MBA is a rite of passage. However, you have to put forth the case that you are maxing out your current skill set and to be as damn effective as you have in the past, you need the strategic skills that an MBA can provide.
So then, why this school? As an example, if you are picking Wharton and Kellogg, you have to be aware that these are 2 very, very different schools. Trust me, it looks less than desirable for Kellogg to see that you are applying to Wharton and vice versa. I explain more in a guide I wrote on Applying to HBS (https://www.amerasiaconsulting.com/mba_r ... ite_paper/), you can download it via the link. In this white paper, I explain a similar dichotomy between HBS and Stanford. In short, it looks like you are just applying to top schools with no real connection to the program or clear idea of what you want to do with your MBA. If you have more questions, I can help you with this.
The above represents the left side of the MBA Acceptance equation. This have to sum logically in order to reach the right side of the equation and for you to not look like a half-baked applicant in the eyes of the admissions committee. To put it another way, all parts have to build on each other, so you look like you were preparing to enter the pearly gates of Kellogg (or School X) from the day you came into this world.
The right side of the equation is made up of your logically connecting short and longer term goals that build on the left side of the equation. This is your homework for today, to start forming these goals.
It is critically important that your short term goals is actionable. That is, it is consistent and it is logical that you would be able to get this job, graduating from the school in question. I cringe when I talk to applicants and they have not idea whether or not the firm (by way of a position they defined in their essays) actually comes to campus to recruit. Again, sloppy homework. Remember, short term goals are tactical so that the admissions committee can report to US News that 97% of their graduates are employed 3 months after graduation. No joke.
The longer term goal is a career path that is 5+ years after graduation. Again, this has to build on your short term goal which builds on your current W/E. Again, no zigs or zags. MBA program are not a place to find yourself. The important part of a logical long-term goal is that it should be more philanthropic in nature. That is, it starts to incorporate elements of your P/P/P/P. So, in the longer term, you are going to be a person who actually gives back to society, a profession and a cause.
See how this works? It's not a secret sauce but rather an applicant who has thought about what he wants to do and has his stuff together. As base as this sounds, your differentiation is having your stuff together. This makes you a candidate with a fighting "chance."
In closing, I would like to offer up my resources once you nail the GMAT. If you need a recommendation for a GMAT class, please let me know. I have worked for Veritas Prep and Kaplan and I can really tell you what to look for.
Once you cross that bridge, I would like to speak to you over the phone for a consultation (pro grata). This conversation would probably last an hour to 90 minutes. Please PM me and let me know if this is something you would be interested in. I don't hard sell but I know that my comments above will open up more questions. Speaking over the phone would allow me to be as honest and forthright as possible.
Respectfully,
Paul Lanzillotti
Thanks for reaching out to forum and I respect the tenacity with which you are approaching the GMAT. Keep at it, as admissions committees do not really care how many times you have taken the test, just that you get the right 3-digit number. Remember, the quick and dirty way is to look at your GMAT and see if it is within 20-30 points of the mean. However, I digress.
So what are you chances at the schools you listed? I have worked with a few hundred applicants over the past 8 years, and at a base level there is not enough information to evaluation if you have a "chance" at a particular business school. Why? Because after a low GMAT score (and poor undergraduate performance), the lack of clearly articulated short and long term goals is the most frequent reason for rejection. If you don't know where you are going with your career, it is hard to lay out why you have been engaging the career path you are on today. While I am sure that you do have defined goals, unfortunately, they were not mentioned in your original post.
So my first question is - what are your short and longer term career goals? That is, what do you want to be when you grow up?
In truly vetting this question and getting to goals that are consistent with both your past performance (and that make sense to the admissions committee), here is a framework for examining your candidacy methodically. Goals need to be viewed holistically and within this paradigm. Walking through the following should then help you think critically about your differentiation (I have posted bits of the following in other threads btw) and what weaknesses you may need to address.
Here is the basic paradigm in which you want to view your candidacy. I call it the MBA Acceptance Equation (TM):
GMAT (at or near the school's mean) + GPA (undergrad performance and leadership activities) + Work Experience + Personal Passions and Philanthropic Pursuits (consistent history of extracurricular leadership) + Why MBA? (describe what the degree will do in general) + Why MBA from this program? (indicated by the school's pedagogy) + Why Now? (sense of urgency)= Short Term (tactical/immediately upon graduation) + Longer Term Goals (5+ years out and waxes philosophic)
You have to hit on the above to be a competitive candidate at School X. Again, if School X is a H/S/W/K caliber, then you can easily check the rankings for the average GMAT and GPA. With a 650 GMAT, you have your answer with Kellogg and Wharton, and unfortunately, you would not be competitive with your current score. You need to get around a 700 to really be in the running at both. With the others, you will most definitely be competitive. Your exceptional GPA at a top tier program (CMU) definitely moves the needle but not enough to overcome the mid-600's GMAT. BTW, the low verbal tells me that you can improve towards a 700. You have isolated the variable (now address it.)
When you have cleared this first hurdle, you want to move onto your work experience (W/E). As far as I can tell, your W/E is "quant" in nature and is considered a "known quantity" so it going to be important to show differentiation. I am assuming that you work for a market research firm who are called upon by banks to cover certain "fashion" industries? Is this correct?
So in answering if you have a chance (beyond your GMAT score), your first question around W/E should be around the size/reputation of your firm and your leadership within it. How many other research analysts are there? How many analysts report up to you? You always want to stress leadership in this part of the MBA Acceptance Equation. So, if you work for a smaller firm, you need to stress your ability to wear many hats and work with C-level individuals and decision makers to get things done. Talk about your ability to communicate with a diversity of constituents (designers and equity analysts). Stress how your jack of all trades nature goes beyond title and formal authority. Make sure that you articulate a story where multi-faceted nature caused you to come up the curve quickly while (perhaps) helping to build an entrepreneurial organization. (Your recs HAVE to back up this story).
The same could be about a larger organization to a certain extent. However, you have to also talk about how you were a leader among peers. That is, you did not get lost in the shuffle and while there was an established hierarchy, you went above and beyond the established paradigm to ask for more authority and then fully live up to that expectation. An example of this would be a research assistant who may have been the only one entrusted with formal authority to make recommendations to client firms.
Moving onto the next part of the equation: personal passions and philanthropic pursuits (P/P/P/P):
I did not see a mention of extracurricular activities. To me, this is the variable that is most often forgotten and all else being equal, this variable separates the groupies from the rockstars. If your extracurriculars are significant, this means they maintain a logical connection to your longer term goals. Additionally, they position your as a leader and can break any type of stereotype associated with your professional background. If you are a research analyst, you man work a lot of hours so you could have little time for out of the office pursuits. However, any extracurriculars you have will help defuse a too readily placed label (e.g. that those with an analytical role are not good in a team oriented environment.) You need to break this stereotype with your P/P/P/P.
I hope you have been volunteering and showing leadership. Again, your extracurricular experiences are relevant and are only as good as they "right" leadership qualities they demonstrate. So If you are part of the volunteering crew, step up and separate yourself by asking for more leadership. If you can not do this at your current out of the office activity, my suggestion is to get out and find a new out of the office leadership activity.
As a word of caution, make sure it logically builds on your story or positioning. Don't just dive into an underwater basket weaving activity that shows leadership but is slight wacky. In fact, I would find a subject area that builds off of your professional acumen but also towards a longer term goal. Remember, the best candidates are those that have out of the office activities that marry up their professional background with a philanthropic interest that get them towards their longer term goal. Almost every candidate misses this point. Don't make that mistake.
This brings us to the Why MBA? Why this school? part of the equation. It's related to the Peter Principle and it is customized to your specific case. I know that in traditional quant careers, the MBA is a rite of passage. However, you have to put forth the case that you are maxing out your current skill set and to be as damn effective as you have in the past, you need the strategic skills that an MBA can provide.
So then, why this school? As an example, if you are picking Wharton and Kellogg, you have to be aware that these are 2 very, very different schools. Trust me, it looks less than desirable for Kellogg to see that you are applying to Wharton and vice versa. I explain more in a guide I wrote on Applying to HBS (https://www.amerasiaconsulting.com/mba_r ... ite_paper/), you can download it via the link. In this white paper, I explain a similar dichotomy between HBS and Stanford. In short, it looks like you are just applying to top schools with no real connection to the program or clear idea of what you want to do with your MBA. If you have more questions, I can help you with this.
The above represents the left side of the MBA Acceptance equation. This have to sum logically in order to reach the right side of the equation and for you to not look like a half-baked applicant in the eyes of the admissions committee. To put it another way, all parts have to build on each other, so you look like you were preparing to enter the pearly gates of Kellogg (or School X) from the day you came into this world.
The right side of the equation is made up of your logically connecting short and longer term goals that build on the left side of the equation. This is your homework for today, to start forming these goals.
It is critically important that your short term goals is actionable. That is, it is consistent and it is logical that you would be able to get this job, graduating from the school in question. I cringe when I talk to applicants and they have not idea whether or not the firm (by way of a position they defined in their essays) actually comes to campus to recruit. Again, sloppy homework. Remember, short term goals are tactical so that the admissions committee can report to US News that 97% of their graduates are employed 3 months after graduation. No joke.
The longer term goal is a career path that is 5+ years after graduation. Again, this has to build on your short term goal which builds on your current W/E. Again, no zigs or zags. MBA program are not a place to find yourself. The important part of a logical long-term goal is that it should be more philanthropic in nature. That is, it starts to incorporate elements of your P/P/P/P. So, in the longer term, you are going to be a person who actually gives back to society, a profession and a cause.
See how this works? It's not a secret sauce but rather an applicant who has thought about what he wants to do and has his stuff together. As base as this sounds, your differentiation is having your stuff together. This makes you a candidate with a fighting "chance."
In closing, I would like to offer up my resources once you nail the GMAT. If you need a recommendation for a GMAT class, please let me know. I have worked for Veritas Prep and Kaplan and I can really tell you what to look for.
Once you cross that bridge, I would like to speak to you over the phone for a consultation (pro grata). This conversation would probably last an hour to 90 minutes. Please PM me and let me know if this is something you would be interested in. I don't hard sell but I know that my comments above will open up more questions. Speaking over the phone would allow me to be as honest and forthright as possible.
Respectfully,
Paul Lanzillotti
calisnoopy
