Darden vs Cornell?

Question

Hello everyone!

I'm from China and newly admitted to Darden and Johnson this year. Being accepted by these two schools makes me excited, but deciding which school to attend is really tough. So I want to hear you guy's opinion's.

My primary goal is consulting back in China (80%), but corporate finance is as well OK to me (20%). If the latter, I have no preference in location, both China and the uS are OK.

I think there're both some pros and cons of these two schools:

Darden:
pros: 
very good faculty team and teaching
career service is excellent
very collaborative, close-knit community, passionate students, strong alunmi support
ranking is climbing up this year, new dean is great
better presence in consulting industry
cons:
UVA is less famous internationally (few people in China ever hear about UVA)
"ridiculous" studyload, which means not enough time for networking and preparing for internship and recruiting

Johnson:
pros:
Ivy League brand, more recognized globally, extremely good brand in Asia
close-knit community as well, support from entire Cornell community
cons:
consulting may not be as strong as Darden (personal view)
ranking has been moving downward for recent years
lack ofattractive points except IB immersion which I will certainly not attend
terrible weather and location, in the middle of nowhere

I know that gmatclub is very friendly. Could you please give me some suggestions of deciding between these two school? Thank you so much!

wmay · Answer

Darden! Darden has better MBB placement, esp in the US. And I believe it offers a slightly better education experience. And they just made top#10 of USNW rankings this year. With their new dean from McK, consulting placements look likely to be on the rise in years to come.

dtse86 · Answer

wmay  makes some good points, however I thought OP's primary goal was to go back to China for consulting. I may be wrong because he/she also said location didn't matter?

I think long term brand recognition in China, Cornell will have the better impact, however if you go to UVA and get a job at MBB in the US, that on your resume may help open more doors for you over in China later in your career.

Either way, I think you're in a pretty good position.

Also, ask yourself, which community do you like more? I don't know what the Chinese or international presence is like over at UVA/Darden, but I know at Cornell/Johnson it's very strong and welcoming. And besides the Johnson network, you will definitely have access to the greater Cornell network which I believe has very strong support in China.

Just another perspective and thought regarding your comparison...

wmay · Answer

Well, assuming that OP wants to go and do MBB in China, I believe that the recruiters in MBB China know about UVA Darden. I'd admit I might be slightly biased as I applied to Darden but not Cornell.

dtse86 · Answer

Likewise, I applied to Cornell and not Darden. :-D

I guess that's why it's good that the OP posted here to get a large variety of opinions. I never said that the recruiters or hiring managers aren't aware of Darden and I'm sure many Darden alums have obtained MBB jobs in China. I meant to imply that if the OP was hoping to use or leverage the "prestige" and reputation of a school after that first post-MBA position, Cornell would hold an advantage. Darden is definitely a great school (as recognized by the USNWR rankings this year) and arguably a better school due to rankings, however Cornell's holds the "Ivy-league" weight that just carries more in China. I'm not sure why, but people over there do love the "Ivy-league" brand.

jessepinkman · Answer

darden is definitely stronger in consulting so if that's the end goal, seems like an easy choice here. warmer weather is a nice plus as well.

coby9999 · Answer

Also from China, and will work in consulting back at home. While neither do I attend Darden or Johnson, so hopefully I'm not biased. I would suggest you consider Darden in your case, and reason being:

1, I agree that Cornell's brand is stronger than UVa to mass population in China. While the more important thing is that which of Darden or Johnson is better recognized by recruiters in consulting or corporate MBA programs. I think the marginal edge is taken by Darden.
2, Both school are in the same league of Top10-15 schools, while Darden is with NYU/Michigan/Yale/Duke, and Cornell is with UCLA. So Darden is still a small notch higher than Johnson. I assume this would also be reflected in the quality of program.
3, Darden has a stronger consulting placement in US. As far as I know, this is the same case in China. You can talk to current Chinese students at both school to understand their consulting placement in recent years.

Meanwhile, I would also suggest you think about three things before making your decision:

1, Consulting recruiting for China is different from US. To get interview invite, normally you don't need to do a lot of networking. Interview invite decision is made mainly based on your resume. All S16 schools don't vary much when ppl leveraging school name to get interview. And the offer decision is mainly based on how you perform in interview.
2, Case method/work load. I didn't apply for Darden due to the concern on this. Also, I heard from current student at Darden saying that the heavy work load hurts recruiting preparation and social life to some extent.
3, Fit. International students normally tend to put more weight on Ranking, Job placement and etc. The fit factor could be missed. Two years is too short if you enjoy while too long if you don't. See if you feel more comfortable with current students/alumni from one of the school.

migraines · Answer

I am really appreciated you guys' suggestions. I think these points all make good sense.

An idea just comes up: as we see Darden has a better placement in MBB and the consulting field, is it probable that more Darden students tend to land a job in consulting, whereas a larger proportion of Cornell students are interested in banking/asset manageent/PE? So what if 10 Darden students seek consulting jobs and 4 of then finally make it, and 5 Cornell students seek and 2 get the jobs? If so then both school have a 40% probability into consulting.

Why I find myself making the decision tougher...But thank you guys very much!

MBAschooled · Answer

I think you did a really good job laying out the criteria and assessing the pro's and con's - My question for you is how would your prioritize the criteria that you listed? Is academic experience (e.g. case method at Darden) more/less of a dealbreaker than a winter in Upstate NY? Either way, both are great schools, and while there are certainly differences I do think both can help you achieve some of your post-MBA goals.

coby9999 · Answer

Fully agree with this logic. But you won't know how many ppl recruit consulting in the upfront. With all said, Darden has a stronger consulting placement in both US and China, while a Cornell Johnson brand certainly won't hinder you to get consulting interview. And whether you can land an offer or not mainly depends on how you perform in interview. So there is no right or wrong choice here.

dtse86 · Answer

IMHO, if you are a good enough candidate for MBB, your chances of getting an interview with MBB are equal. Your performance in the case interview will determine if you will ultimately walk away with an offer.

Then you have to ask yourself, what does each school offer that can best prepare me for performance in the case interviews?

Like I've said previously, I don't know what Darden does for case interview prep, but Cornell does have a decent amount of support for consulting prep (much more than I initially expected because their online content is dismal). And from speaking with many current students, MBB hiring at Cornell is starting to gain some momentum.

migraines · Answer

Thank you guys!

While consulting is my primary goal, corporate finance is also a decent job for me. I think both schools are target schools of many corporations, so that's why they're quite comparable.

Do you guys think an ivy league brand is so important? As a Chinese, I am not sure how Americans view UVA's brand and whether it's a disadvantage in terms of brand in other continents （say, Europe, Australia）? After all, I can't design a very clear path of myself as where to stay and which industry, since the world is changing fast and who knows where the best opportunities are? So from this perspective, will Darden be a good choice?

I ask this because I'm now inclined to Darden.

wmay · Answer

UVA has a strong brand in the USA but limited outside of it, e.g. in Europe or Asia.

dtse86 · Answer

Americans highly regard UVA (one of it's founding fathers help found UVA). And although the Ivy-league brand seems to resonate more with foreigners  not familiar with American education , 3-4 years after your MBA, people won't care too much about where you got your MBA. The brand of your employer and the work that you did immediately post-MBA will matter more.

I think you should eliminate brand recognition abroad as a factor in your decision. It will likely not matter that much and the person hiring you in the future may even know that Darden is highly ranked.

However, I do think you should think of which school has the better network abroad. Reach out to some alumni in China from both schools to see what the alumni involvement is like and how responsive they are. That can be a big difference maker.

wmay · Answer

I work out of HK and I don't think Cornell has a particularly stronger name than UVA out here.

Mo2men · Answer

Congrats dtse86 I totally support your view. Most international students looks only to the brand. While it is important, it is not all the formula. The student need to see the 'fit' migraines: As international student, I will help you as much as I can. Search for the fit from terms of education of your style. Do you like pure case method? or you want a mix? Darden is 100% case study, while Cornell has both and the immersions are perfect. Try to see the following video in a class in Darden and there are more videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suyxP_J ... e=youtu.be Both schools have wonderful friendly culture. The alumni from Darden are wonderful. They all responded to me. but they were working in the USA. I advise you to see the alumni for both. I was in contact with nice rep from Cornell Admission. I asked her about Cornell reputation in Singapore. She confirmed the reputation maybe more than UK and you can see that from people from Singapore who study IB. I can see that from Ambassadors list. Suppose both have equal brands. From point of view, I would make the most of the school. then work in the US in consulting or consulting in financial service for a while and strength my resume then apply in China. In Cornell, you can apply for Consulting program with another immersion and choose a lot of finance electives. In Darden, you can do the same and go to 2 concentrations: IB and consulting. Therefore, you can open the opportunity in IB and consulting. Again you need to study more plans. :gl

jz4analytics · Answer

UVA is a great, old school and has good recognition in the US. The main campus was originally designed by Jefferson and is beautiful (it is the only university in America that has a World Heritage site on campus).

Its undergraduate rankings have always been in the top 25 in the US (that's the top half of Tier 1); it's undergraduate business school is generally ranked 1-3; and it's MBA program is around 10-12.

The term "ivy league" doesn't include all great schools (although all are great). Chicago, MIT, Stanford, and Duke are all great schools but not ivies (in fact, I think these all generally outrank Cornell). Cornell is usually ranked around 15th undergrad and 15-16 for an MBA.

So basically, UVA is ranked slightly higher for business and Cornell is ranked slightly higher for undergrad (which does has a reputation). Both are great schools with good programs. UVA is better for job placement, so I vote on that.

I'll admit that I did go to UVA so I may be biased, but it does have a great atmosphere - good weather, nice campus, history. If you feel like the schools are a toss-up, I'd pick UVA based on the location alone.

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