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What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM)

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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 15 Nov 2008, 23:26
riverripper wrote:
kryzak wrote:
During Microsofts presentation they actually told us that they have more MBAs from Kellogg than from any other school.


Is that the reason Apple is doing so well? Hehehe, just kidding.

Data behind rankings sometimes reveal more than the rankings themselves. I was just thinking whether it is reliable though, I mean, people were "complaining" about BW ranking, but apparently USNEws rely on what schools give them as data, so if some school "want" to skew a little, it seems that it can. I know that it is too much for ethics, but still...
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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 16 Nov 2008, 02:09
kwam wrote:
riverripper wrote:
kryzak wrote:
During Microsofts presentation they actually told us that they have more MBAs from Kellogg than from any other school.


Is that the reason Apple is doing so well? Hehehe, just kidding.

Data behind rankings sometimes reveal more than the rankings themselves. I was just thinking whether it is reliable though, I mean, people were "complaining" about BW ranking, but apparently USNEws rely on what schools give them as data, so if some school "want" to skew a little, it seems that it can. I know that it is too much for ethics, but still...


Apple recruits here as well...so maybe thats why their new marketing is so good haha.

I wont even ask about Chicago's great finance education and what role that has played in Wall Street's recent performance. Lehman and ML I do believe really liked GSB grads :roll:

Remember people who attend school in class buildings shouldnt be throwing stones :lol:
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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 16 Nov 2008, 03:06
riverripper wrote:
No offense but I dont think that is really true. During Microsofts presentation they actually told us that they have more MBAs from Kellogg than from any other school. Google is a big hirer here too, heck facebook came to recruit here this year. Lots of tech companies come here. Non-profit is pretty popular here as well, and clean tech is increasing in popularity. Haas actually seems to place well in GM roles (higher % than Kellogg). I think its going to come down more to location (example look in the mirror Kry haha) and just gut feel. Yes if you want big time consulting then Kellogg is probably the place to go and if you want entrepreneurship then Haas may have the edge...however remember very few people actually go on to start their own business straight out of any school.


No, few people start their own business straight out of school (though 6% of Haas students do, not sure about Kellogg), but quite a few go work for startups afterwards. In general, Kellogg is not really a place where people go out to work for startups or start companies after school. Maybe in a few years, yes.

As for hiring more, Kellogg is more than 2x bigger than Haas, and the last few years have been one of the top hirers at Haas with 6-8 people (3%). And if you include all the other non-big tech firms, Haas is definitely better situated for a career in technology, not necessarily needing to go to bigger companies. Smaller (not startups) tech firms would rarely leave the immediate area to go hire elsewhere due to cost. So yes, for big tech firms, you probably have a good chance of getting a job at either school, but if you are exploring tech in general, location matters a lot.

Anyway, the point is, we agree on the key things a student should look for in a school, but in the down economy, applicants should definitely look at the strengths of the school since when companies reduce their hiring, they generally still go to the school with strengths in their area (consulting for Kellogg, tech for Haas, etc...).
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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 16 Nov 2008, 12:28
riverripper wrote:
Apple recruits here as well...so maybe thats why their new marketing is so good haha.

I wont even ask about Chicago's great finance education and what role that has played in Wall Street's recent performance. Lehman and ML I do believe really liked GSB grads :roll:

Remember people who attend school in class buildings shouldnt be throwing stones :lol:


I wasn't throwing stones, I was just kidding as I openly stated. Sorry if I didn't deliver my message the way I wanted. Microsoft also recruits here in Chicago as Apple does so too.

Remember when I told that the data behind the numbers usually tell us more than the ranking itself? Well that's what I keep hearing in my accounting classes: don't just look at the BS, IS and SCF, look at the footnotes.

It's not going to be a particularly good placement environment for Columbia, Wharton, Chicago and NYU as these schools send half of their students to finance related jobs. However I remember river arguing that it would be easier for someone pursuing a finance job at Kellogg. From the BW data, it seems that Lehman and ML were also top recruiters there, actually they were all across the Top schools. If one prospective student just look at the data she/he would think that Kellogg just sent people at Finance to Lehman, ML, JP and AMEX, a wrong assumption. On the other hand people looking at Chicago's numbers would also think that things would be easier there as there are many other Financial companies going there: wrong. Things will be hard all over the place, especially for career switchers. Thinking a bit, I don't remember seeing that many careers switchers to Finance in my class, maybe they changed their minds, maybe it was the AdCom/Career Service strategy.
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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 16 Nov 2008, 12:44
kwam wrote:
I wasn't throwing stones, I was just kidding as I openly stated. Sorry if I didn't deliver my message the way I wanted. Microsoft also recruits here in Chicago as Apple does so too.

I know you were kidding, I was just teasing about the fact your whole building is a big glass cube. (better than a concrete bunker though haha)

kwam wrote:
It's not going to be a particularly good placement environment for Columbia, Wharton, Chicago and NYU as these schools send half of their students to finance related jobs. However I remember river arguing that it would be easier for someone pursuing a finance job at Kellogg. From the BW data, it seems that Lehman and ML were also top recruiters there, actually they were all across the Top schools. If one prospective student just look at the data she/he would think that Kellogg just sent people at Finance to Lehman, ML, JP and AMEX, a wrong assumption. On the other hand people looking at Chicago's numbers would also think that things would be easier there as there are many other Financial companies going there: wrong. Things will be hard all over the place, especially for career switchers. Thinking a bit, I don't remember seeing that many careers switchers to Finance in my class, maybe they changed their minds, maybe it was the AdCom/Career Service strategy.


One of my friends is recuiting heavily for banking. He said there are only about 35 kids in our class chasing IB this year (less than half the number who went after it last year according to the banking club). Many of those are internationals, it seems especially popular with chinese students who want to go back to hong kong. He was joking that there is no competition and it will be easier to get a job at one of the top banks (the few that are left) than at one of the top consulting companies because even with the decrease the jobs are going to outnumber the kids going for them.

Have people at Chicago changed their plans? Are many kids who wanted banking now going for consulting or some other job now?
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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 16 Nov 2008, 15:40
riverripper wrote:
Have people at Chicago changed their plans? Are many kids who wanted banking now going for consulting or some other job now?


I've seen some people that wanted Banking or IM going to Consulting events.
Is this a trend? I don't know.
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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 16 Nov 2008, 15:51
kwam wrote:
riverripper wrote:
Have people at Chicago changed their plans? Are many kids who wanted banking now going for consulting or some other job now?


I've seen some people that wanted Banking or IM going to Consulting events.
Is this a trend? I don't know.

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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 18 Nov 2008, 22:43
kwam wrote:

MGBLUE, I believe I can just add, as this is the value of the endowment - though some people say that this is a very conservative estimate of the gift.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that all Top Schools are well above the 700 on GMAT.


There was a town hall with the Deans today -- They talked about fundraising for the new building and mentioned that our endowment is still higher than Chicago's despite the donation. 8-)

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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 19 Nov 2008, 00:10
MGOBLUE2 wrote:
kwam wrote:

MGBLUE, I believe I can just add, as this is the value of the endowment - though some people say that this is a very conservative estimate of the gift.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that all Top Schools are well above the 700 on GMAT.


There was a town hall with the Deans today -- They talked about fundraising for the new building and mentioned that our endowment is still higher than Chicago's despite the donation. 8-)


Somebody is worried with competition :)

What new building? Well at least it must be cheaper right, perhaps around $100M, with real state the way it is, hehehe. Just Kidding again with my north neighbors.

BTW, I was wrong, the gift won't count for $300MM in the book, this value has cash, participation on Booth's company and also the present value of the projected streams. My fault. But it doesn't have the extra $100M
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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 19 Nov 2008, 06:48
kwam wrote:
Somebody is worried with competition :)

What new building? Well at least it must be cheaper right, perhaps around $100M, with real state the way it is, hehehe. Just Kidding again with my north neighbors.

BTW, I was wrong, the gift won't count for $300MM in the book, this value has cash, participation on Booth's company and also the present value of the projected streams. My fault. But it doesn't have the extra $100M


The new building is going to be on the lake overlooking the city. They are planning on spending well over $200 million on it. They are basically doubling the space for students (student body wont be changing in size though). Since we are the last top school to get a new building they say they are going to go well beyond all the others. The thought is no other school will be building a new building anytime soon so they can make something better than the rest and have that advantage for years to come.

As for the endowment (they are all big enough so its not a huge deal) however, our deans all talk and supposedly ours was more than double Chicagos before the gift and we still are "significantly higher."

Other things that came out:
We only lost two professors this year, one to HBS and one to Haas (lowest number of the top schools) but gained a bunch from other schools.
applications are up 19% or so.
Talked a lot about brand building and stuff like that. Spending a lot of effort building up relationships with senior alums around the world to really strengthen our brand overseas.
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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 19 Nov 2008, 07:28
You´re right river, you guys had almost twice as much as us in terms of endowments.

It seems a nice project with the building. As for the relationship you know that you guys are good in marketing, right?
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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 19 Nov 2008, 08:11
riverripper wrote:
Since we are the last top school to get a new building they say they are going to go well beyond all the others. The thought is no other school will be building a new building anytime soon so they can make something better than the rest and have that advantage for years to come.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that MIT and Stanford are both in the process of building new facilities, and Columbia is going to have a new one within the next 5-8 years as well?

Anyway, I gotta say that I hate the overtly rah rah cheerleading on the forums from any school's camp. It's a huge turn off. Every school has it's positives and negatives, and Kellogg and Chicago are no exception.
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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 19 Nov 2008, 11:30
agold wrote:
riverripper wrote:
Since we are the last top school to get a new building they say they are going to go well beyond all the others. The thought is no other school will be building a new building anytime soon so they can make something better than the rest and have that advantage for years to come.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that MIT and Stanford are both in the process of building new facilities, and Columbia is going to have a new one within the next 5-8 years as well?

Anyway, I gotta say that I hate the overtly rah rah cheerleading on the forums from any school's camp. It's a huge turn off. Every school has it's positives and negatives, and Kellogg and Chicago are no exception.



We should just change the title of this thread to the official Kellogg/Chicago cheer-off
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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 19 Nov 2008, 11:43
GoBruins wrote:
agold wrote:
riverripper wrote:
Since we are the last top school to get a new building they say they are going to go well beyond all the others. The thought is no other school will be building a new building anytime soon so they can make something better than the rest and have that advantage for years to come.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that MIT and Stanford are both in the process of building new facilities, and Columbia is going to have a new one within the next 5-8 years as well?

Anyway, I gotta say that I hate the overtly rah rah cheerleading on the forums from any school's camp. It's a huge turn off. Every school has it's positives and negatives, and Kellogg and Chicago are no exception.



We should just change the title of this thread to the official Kellogg/Chicago cheer-off


Hahaha, I think its because Kellogg and Chicago students are the only ones who still frequent this board. We can always go away if you guys want...

Agold, thats the point, everyone else is building theirs now so Kellogg's view is they will be last so they have the chance to one up everyone.

Back on topic...these rankings arent terrible overall. Its almost the same top 20 as USnews...just a few real surprises like southern methodist and yale. However, if you dont look at the order as an exact representation but more of a tier look they are pretty good.
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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 19 Nov 2008, 13:07
When will the new Kellogg building be open to new students, i.e. which will be the lucky class?

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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 19 Nov 2008, 13:18
sonibubu wrote:
When will the new Kellogg building be open to new students, i.e. which will be the lucky class?


Not us, not you...probably at least another 3 or 4 years for it to be built.
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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 19 Nov 2008, 13:25
agold wrote:
riverripper wrote:
Since we are the last top school to get a new building they say they are going to go well beyond all the others. The thought is no other school will be building a new building anytime soon so they can make something better than the rest and have that advantage for years to come.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that MIT and Stanford are both in the process of building new facilities, and Columbia is going to have a new one within the next 5-8 years as well?

Anyway, I gotta say that I hate the overtly rah rah cheerleading on the forums from any school's camp. It's a huge turn off. Every school has it's positives and negatives, and Kellogg and Chicago are no exception.


For Columbia I'm pretty sure that the rumors were confirmed that they will be getting an new campus at Manhattanville.

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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 19 Nov 2008, 16:11
Hey now, I still frequent this board, so Haas is represented. :wink:

Speaking of buildings, Haas is still in the fundraising mode right now, and rumors from many sources say that we should have enough to *start* building an new building (and expand the class) in 5 years. I guess that'll make Haas have the newest building (even though it's more of an addition than a replacement) :P
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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 19 Nov 2008, 16:17
agold wrote:
riverripper wrote:
Since we are the last top school to get a new building they say they are going to go well beyond all the others. The thought is no other school will be building a new building anytime soon so they can make something better than the rest and have that advantage for years to come.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that MIT and Stanford are both in the process of building new facilities, and Columbia is going to have a new one within the next 5-8 years as well?

Anyway, I gotta say that I hate the overtly rah rah cheerleading on the forums from any school's camp. It's a huge turn off. Every school has it's positives and negatives, and Kellogg and Chicago are no exception.


Dont bother about the new building from CBS! They wont have enough space. Its in the middle of freakin Manhattan for crying out loud.

(In case u guys have not noticed, I am still mad at CBS for rejecting me in the ED round - shame on u CBS!)
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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM) [#permalink]

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New post 19 Nov 2008, 16:43
agold wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that MIT and Stanford are both in the process of building new facilities, and Columbia is going to have a new one within the next 5-8 years as well?

Anyway, I gotta say that I hate the overtly rah rah cheerleading on the forums from any school's camp. It's a huge turn off. Every school has it's positives and negatives, and Kellogg and Chicago are no exception.


I feel like a rankings thread is an appropriate place to have a rah rah session. At the end of the day, rankings are just the ultimate rah rah fun and games. Why not have a candid discussion on how actual factors impact subjective rankings?

Also, I'd rather have a rah rah session than a school bashing session. You're right - every school has its strengths and benefits. What better way to hear about both than from current students?

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Re: What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM)   [#permalink] 19 Nov 2008, 16:43

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