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Re: Which of the following equations has 1 + 2 as one of its roots? [#permalink]
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woohoo921 wrote:
I was curious as to what would happen if instead I shifted the root 2 over, setting the equation equal to 1... rather than how the OG shifts the 1 over and sets the equation equal to root 2. When I do x-root2=1 and then square both sides, I get to a final equation of x^2-2xroot2+2. Why did I get a different equation doing this?


I don't have the OG solution in front of me, but I suspect that your use of the word "shift", woohoo921, might be causing you to make a careless error (I've seen it happen a lot). Instead, I suggest that you articulate to yourself which arithmetic operation you're performing on both sides of the equation, e.g. "I'm adding 1 to both sides of the equation, and subtracting root(2) from both sides of the equation."
If that doesn't help, please reply with the original equation, which arithmetic operations you performed on it, and the final equation.
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Which of the following equations has 1 + 2 as one of its roots? [#permalink]
avigutman wrote:
woohoo921 wrote:
I was curious as to what would happen if instead I shifted the root 2 over, setting the equation equal to 1... rather than how the OG shifts the 1 over and sets the equation equal to root 2. When I do x-root2=1 and then square both sides, I get to a final equation of x^2-2xroot2+2. Why did I get a different equation doing this?


I don't have the OG solution in front of me, but I suspect that your use of the word "shift", woohoo921, might be causing you to make a careless error (I've seen it happen a lot). Instead, I suggest that you articulate to yourself which arithmetic operation you're performing on both sides of the equation, e.g. "I'm adding 1 to both sides of the equation, and subtracting root(2) from both sides of the equation."
If that doesn't help, please reply with the original equation, which arithmetic operations you performed on it, and the final equation.


avigutman
Thank you for your response!
The Official Guide says you can solve this problem by working backwards to construct a quadratic equation with 1 +root2 as a root that does not involve radicals. The OG then proceeds to set x=1+root2 and subtracts 1 from both sides, squares both sides, and then subtracts 2 from both sides to arrive at x^2-2x+1. My question was if I subtract root2 from the right-hand side of the equation instead of root 1 --> x-root2=1 and then solve through, I get x^2-2xroot2+2. Where did I go wrong? Should I have arrived at the same exact equation as the answer choice?
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Re: Which of the following equations has 1 + 2 as one of its roots? [#permalink]
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woohoo921 wrote:
The Official Guide says you can solve this problem by working backwards to construct a quadratic equation with 1 +root2 as a root that does not involve radicals. The OG then proceeds to set x=1+root2 and subtracts 1 from both sides, squares both sides, and then subtracts 2 from both sides to arrive at x^2-2x+1. My question was if I subtract root2 from the right-hand side of the equation instead of root 1 --> x-root2=1 and then solve through, I get x^2-2xroot2+2. Where did I go wrong? Should I have arrived at the same exact equation as the answer choice?


So, you took x-root2=1 and at that point you decided to square both sides of the equation, right, woohoo921?
But, then you only typed the left hand side. What about the right hand side?
If the OG's final equation had zero on the right hand side, and your final equation has 1 on the right hand side, then it's the same equation, yes?
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Re: Which of the following equations has 1 + 2 as one of its roots? [#permalink]
avigutman wrote:
woohoo921 wrote:
The Official Guide says you can solve this problem by working backwards to construct a quadratic equation with 1 +root2 as a root that does not involve radicals. The OG then proceeds to set x=1+root2 and subtracts 1 from both sides, squares both sides, and then subtracts 2 from both sides to arrive at x^2-2x+1. My question was if I subtract root2 from the right-hand side of the equation instead of root 1 --> x-root2=1 and then solve through, I get x^2-2xroot2+2. Where did I go wrong? Should I have arrived at the same exact equation as the answer choice?


So, you took x-root2=1 and at that point you decided to square both sides of the equation, right, woohoo921?
But, then you only typed the left hand side. What about the right hand side?
If the OG's final equation had zero on the right hand side, and your final equation has 1 on the right hand side, then it's the same equation, yes?


I did forget about the 1, but I still have a root 2 in the answer approaching the problem this way: x^2-xroot2+1

In other words, what equation would you get solving for: x-root2=1

Thank you for all of your help!!!
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Re: Which of the following equations has 1 + 2 as one of its roots? [#permalink]
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woohoo921 wrote:
What equation would you get solving for: x-root2=1


Oh, I see what you mean, woohoo921. So, yeah, you're getting a different equation (which is also correct, but it's not in the answer choices). This can happen because [1+root(2)] is just one root out of two, and we don't know what the other root is. There's an infinite number of equations for which [1+root(2)] is a root, depending on the other root. Whoever wrote the OG solution got "lucky" that his or her specific manipulations happened to lead to an equation that appears within the answer choices.
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Re: Which of the following equations has 1 + 2 as one of its roots? [#permalink]
KarishmaB wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
Which of the following equations has 1 + √2 as one of its roots?

A) x^2 + 2x – 1 = 0
B) x^2 – 2x + 1 = 0
C) x^2 + 2x + 1 = 0
D) x^2 – 2x – 1 = 0
E) x^2 – x – 1= 0


Note that
(B) is (x - 1)^2 so its roots are 1 and 1.
(C) is (x + 1)^2 so its roots are -1 and -1.

Now note that all 3 of the remaining options have x^2. When you put \(x = (1 + \sqrt{2})^2\) in them, you will get \((+2\sqrt{2})\) term. It should get canceled out by another term to get 0. So you should get \((-2\sqrt{2})\) term.
Option (D) has -2x which will give a term \(-2\sqrt{2}\).

So answer (D)

KarishmaB
In your view, once you eliminate choices B and C, would it be a bad idea to plug in 1 +root(2) into x for the remaining answer choices and solving algebraically to see which one gives you a solution of zero... if you are really stuck? Thank you!
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Re: Which of the following equations has 1 + 2 as one of its roots? [#permalink]
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woohoo921 wrote:
KarishmaB wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
Which of the following equations has 1 + √2 as one of its roots?

A) x^2 + 2x – 1 = 0
B) x^2 – 2x + 1 = 0
C) x^2 + 2x + 1 = 0
D) x^2 – 2x – 1 = 0
E) x^2 – x – 1= 0


Note that
(B) is (x - 1)^2 so its roots are 1 and 1.
(C) is (x + 1)^2 so its roots are -1 and -1.

Now note that all 3 of the remaining options have x^2. When you put \(x = (1 + \sqrt{2})^2\) in them, you will get \((+2\sqrt{2})\) term. It should get canceled out by another term to get 0. So you should get \((-2\sqrt{2})\) term.
Option (D) has -2x which will give a term \(-2\sqrt{2}\).

So answer (D)

KarishmaB
In your view, once you eliminate choices B and C, would it be a bad idea to plug in 1 +root(2) into x for the remaining answer choices and solving algebraically to see which one gives you a solution of zero... if you are really stuck? Thank you!


Certainly not! Whatever helps you get the answer quickly. I try to give you an efficient method - the one that comes to my mind at that time. I could be using another method if facing the same question another time.
Solve it in whichever way you can and then try to look for a better method (while practicing only! :)).
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Which of the following equations has 1 + 2 as one of its roots? [#permalink]
Expert Reply
woohoo921 wrote:
GMATinsight wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
Which of the following equations has 1 + √2 as one of its roots?

A) x^2 + 2x – 1 = 0
B) x^2 – 2x + 1 = 0
C) x^2 + 2x + 1 = 0
D) x^2 – 2x – 1 = 0
E) x^2 – x – 1= 0


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Answer: Option D

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GMATinsight
This is very helpful, thank you!
To confirm, when you are simplifying (2 + or minus root(8))/2... does the 2 divide into both the 2 and the 2root(2) because there is a plus or minus sign (so you think of it as two fractions with a denominator of 2 that are being added or subtracted together)?
Thank you again.


Hi woohoo921

Yes, 2 divide into both the 2 and the 2root(2)

i.e. \(\frac{2±√2}{2} = \frac{2}{2}± \frac{√2}{2} = 1 ± \frac{1}{√2}\)

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Re: Which of the following equations has 1 + 2 as one of its roots? [#permalink]
KarishmaB

I thought the conjugate root theorem can be applied only when one of the roots contains an imaginary number. However, neither [1 + (2)^1/2] or [1 - (2)^1/2] contains an imaginary number.

Please help explain.
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Re: Which of the following equations has 1 + 2 as one of its roots? [#permalink]
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Vegita wrote:
KarishmaB

I thought the conjugate root theorem can be applied only when one of the roots contains an imaginary number. However, neither [1 + (2)^1/2] or [1 - (2)^1/2] contains an imaginary number.

Please help explain.


It works for irrational roots too (assuming all co-efficients are rational numbers)

Think about it: \(ax^2 + bx + c = 0\)
a, b and c are rational numbers

Roots are \(\frac{-b+-\sqrt{b^2 - 4ac}}{2a}\)

That is, the roots are \(\frac{-b}{2a} + \frac{\sqrt{b^2 - 4ac}}{2a}\) and \(\frac{-b}{2a} - \frac{\sqrt{b^2 - 4ac}}{2a}\) (split into rational and irrational parts). The only difference between the two is the sign before the irrational part.

If the co-efficients were irrational too, then we couldn't split them cleanly into the rational and the irrational parts as we did above.
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Re: Which of the following equations has 1 + 2 as one of its roots? [#permalink]
JeffTargetTestPrep wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
Which of the following equations has 1 + √2 as one of its roots?

A) x^2 + 2x – 1 = 0
B) x^2 – 2x + 1 = 0
C) x^2 + 2x + 1 = 0
D) x^2 – 2x – 1 = 0
E) x^2 – x – 1= 0


To solve this problem, we need to use the following two facts:

1) If a quadratic equation has integer coefficients only, and if one of the roots is a + √b (where a and b are integers), then a - √b is also a root of the equation.

2) If r and s are roots of a quadratic equation, then the equation is of the form x^2 – (r +s)x + rs = 0.

Since we know that 1 - √2 is a root of the quadratic equation, we can let:

r = 1 + √2

and

s = 1 - √2

Thus, r + s = (1 + √2) + (1 - √2) = 2 and rs = (1 + √2)(1 - √2) = 1 – 2 = -1.

Therefore, the quadratic equation must be x^2 – 2x – 1 = 0.

Answer: D



JeffTargetTestPrep Can you please explain the first fact further? Why is 1-sqrt2 also a root of the equation?
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Re: Which of the following equations has 1 + 2 as one of its roots? [#permalink]
My approach:
(1+root2)^2=3+2root2
substitute X with this value in each answer choice
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Re: Which of the following equations has 1 + 2 as one of its roots? [#permalink]
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