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WSJ Ranking of Feeder Undergrad schools

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New post 24 Nov 2008, 13:35
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I just found this and figured I'd pass it on. I believe it's from 2003. It's a Wall Street Journal ranking of the top undergraduate schools that feed into the top business, law, and medicine programs. I'm not able to find the table with the methodology used - if anyone finds it, please post it here.

http://www.wsjclassroom.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf

Some more info:

These rankings were created to show which top 50 undergraduate universities were sending (aka feeding) more students to the selected 15, elite graduate school programs in medicine (Columbia, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, University of California San Francisco, Yale), law (Chicago, Columbia, Harvard, Michigan and Yale ) and business (Chicago, Dartmouth's Tuck School, Harvard, MIT's Sloan School and Penn's Wharton School ).
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Re: WSJ Ranking of Feeder Undergrad schools [#permalink]

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New post 24 Nov 2008, 13:46
That's pretty interesting. Thanks for posting it. I'm not surprised that liberal arts schools do so well. I'm also not surprised that my alma mater didn't make the cut. I think it's especially poor in this regard.
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New post 24 Nov 2008, 13:53
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It'd be really interesting to have a ranking of only absolute numbers rather than percentages.
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New post 24 Nov 2008, 14:20
I was happy to see my alma mater made the top ten, then started thinking about how many other alums from my school will be applying to business school. I know six girls in my sorority pledge class who will be applying to the same business schools as me next year. So, if your school didn't make this list, you can also positively look at it as a way to distinguish yourself.
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New post 24 Nov 2008, 14:21
ElleBee wrote:
I was happy to see my alma mater made the top ten, then started thinking about how many other alums from my school will be applying to business school. I know six girls in my sorority pledge class who will be applying to the same business schools as me next year. So, if your school didn't make this list, you can also positively look at it as a way to distinguish yourself.


Do you plan to list involvement in Greek Life on your application and/or speak about it in interviews?
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New post 24 Nov 2008, 14:31
I plan on listing it on my resume, since I had a leadershp position. I doubt I'd really use it too much in the interview because I've had several years of work experience since then and it seems a little juvenile to bring it up. I wouldn't rule it out though, if the situation fit.
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Last edited by ElleBee on 02 Jul 2009, 07:02, edited 1 time in total.

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New post 24 Nov 2008, 14:34
ElleBee wrote:
I plan on listing it on my resume, since I was the President of my chapter. I doubt I'd really use it too much in the interview because I've had several years of work experience since then and it seems a little juvenile to bring it up. I wouldn't rule it out though, if the situation fit.


Those are my thoughts as well. I listed it but I try to avoid it in interviews if at all possible.
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New post 24 Nov 2008, 14:39
agold wrote:
ElleBee wrote:
I plan on listing it on my resume, since I was the President of my chapter. I doubt I'd really use it too much in the interview because I've had several years of work experience since then and it seems a little juvenile to bring it up. I wouldn't rule it out though, if the situation fit.


Those are my thoughts as well. I listed it but I try to avoid it in interviews if at all possible.


Yeah, I think it's a good plan. I devoted significant time to it in UG, as it sounds you did too, so I want it on my resume, but it just sounds kind of silly, when asked about a time I faced a challenge, talking about how hard it was too coordinate 30 different girls in a dance to a Gwen Stefani song (which is a true story, but sounds RIDICULOUS when spoken outloud by someone in their mid-20s).

I have a question for you, agold, since you were in a fraternity: I was awarded a significant honor/recognition by a fraternity when I was a senior. This is something that is recognized by the fraternity's nationals, etc. Should I list this on my resume or will it come off as me sounding like the girl who hung out at the fraternity house too much?
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New post 24 Nov 2008, 14:42
ElleBee wrote:
agold wrote:
ElleBee wrote:
I plan on listing it on my resume, since I was the President of my chapter. I doubt I'd really use it too much in the interview because I've had several years of work experience since then and it seems a little juvenile to bring it up. I wouldn't rule it out though, if the situation fit.


Those are my thoughts as well. I listed it but I try to avoid it in interviews if at all possible.


Yeah, I think it's a good plan. I devoted significant time to it in UG, as it sounds you did too, so I want it on my resume, but it just sounds kind of silly, when asked about a time I faced a challenge, talking about how hard it was too coordinate 30 different girls in a dance to a Gwen Stefani song (which is a true story, but sounds RIDICULOUS when spoken outloud by someone in their mid-20s).

I have a question for you, agold, since you were in a fraternity: I was awarded a significant honor/recognition by a fraternity when I was a senior. This is something that is recognized by the fraternity's nationals, etc. Should I list this on my resume or will it come off as me sounding like the girl who hung out at the fraternity house too much?


I would say it depends. How many other honors/awards do you have to list? If you have at least 3-4 other solid awards/honors to list on your application and resume, then don't bother with this one. If you only have 1 or 2 others, go ahead and list it. I doubt anyone will look into it too much.
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New post 24 Nov 2008, 14:49
I have 3-4 significant honors/leadership positions to list so maybe I'll just leave the "fraternity honor" off. It is actually quite an honor but the name of it, developed probably in the 1940s, almost sounds like a dubious recognition unless you happen to be a Greek and happen to know the significance of the recognition.
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ElleBee wrote:
I have 3-4 significant honors/leadership positions to list so maybe I'll just leave the "fraternity honor" off. It is actually quite an honor but the name of it, developed probably in the 1940s, almost sounds like a dubious recognition unless you happen to be a Greek and happen to know the significance of the recognition.


Definitely leave it off then.

In my Tuck interview, the interviewer asked about my leadership experiences (I'm only going in with 3 years of WE), and he tried to steer the conversation towards fraternity leadership positions. I took the conversation off that course and just said "well, why don't we talk about work instead, it's more recent and I have several examples to share from the workplace" and he agreed.

Pelihu has always said that people involved with Greek Life during their UG years are generally very well-suited for the traditional on-campus recruiting events at B-School (banking/consulting). I'm sure some of them may resemble rush.
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New post 24 Nov 2008, 14:57
I went to a top 10 school on this list and it was a bit odd to be running into our alums everywhere when visiting campus. I had a friend I hadn't talked to since graduation on my Tuck tour, my class visits at both Tuck and Kellogg were led by fellow alums. Makes me wonder about the undergrad influence question. Especially since both the Tuck and Kellogg student mentioned how similar their experience at those schools was to undergrad in the work hard/play hard combination as well as in the general academic environment.

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New post 24 Nov 2008, 15:06
Sleepy wrote:
I went to a top 10 school on this list and it was a bit odd to be running into our alums everywhere when visiting campus. I had a friend I hadn't talked to since graduation on my Tuck tour, my class visits at both Tuck and Kellogg were led by fellow alums. Makes me wonder about the undergrad influence question. Especially since both the Tuck and Kellogg student mentioned how similar their experience at those schools was to undergrad in the work hard/play hard combination as well as in the general academic environment.


The performance of the small liberal arts schools was by far what surprised me the most on this list. These schools are real powerhouses for grad school placements.
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New post 24 Nov 2008, 15:07
Sleepy wrote:
I went to a top 10 school on this list and it was a bit odd to be running into our alums everywhere when visiting campus. I had a friend I hadn't talked to since graduation on my Tuck tour, my class visits at both Tuck and Kellogg were led by fellow alums. Makes me wonder about the undergrad influence question. Especially since both the Tuck and Kellogg student mentioned how similar their experience at those schools was to undergrad in the work hard/play hard combination as well as in the general academic environment.


I hear you. It can actually be kind of a turn-off too, when you discover an alum from your UG whom you didn't like in UG is at a school you like. Obviously, you won't run into them too much and it's not like you're going to love everyone you meet in business school, but when you already KNOW someone you really dislike is at a small business school sometimes it's a deal-breaker. This happened to be me yesterday, when I was surfing around FB and realized someone I really didn't like from UG is in a business school I'm planning on applying to. Of course I'll still apply and (if accepted) would love to attend, but it did make me stop for a second and think.

Hmmm. Wonder if WE went to the same UG too.
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New post 24 Nov 2008, 15:12
ElleBee wrote:
Sleepy wrote:
I went to a top 10 school on this list and it was a bit odd to be running into our alums everywhere when visiting campus. I had a friend I hadn't talked to since graduation on my Tuck tour, my class visits at both Tuck and Kellogg were led by fellow alums. Makes me wonder about the undergrad influence question. Especially since both the Tuck and Kellogg student mentioned how similar their experience at those schools was to undergrad in the work hard/play hard combination as well as in the general academic environment.


I hear you. It can actually be kind of a turn-off too, when you discover an alum from your UG whom you didn't like in UG is at a school you like. Obviously, you won't run into them too much and it's not like you're going to love everyone you meet in business school, but when you already KNOW someone you really dislike is at a small business school sometimes it's a deal-breaker. This happened to be me yesterday, when I was surfing around FB and realized someone I really didn't like from UG is in a business school I'm planning on applying to. Of course I'll still apply and (if accepted) would love to attend, but it did make me stop for a second and think.

Hmmm. Wonder if WE went to the same UG too.


lol, no chance of that. We had a ban on greeks. I'm so worried I'm not gonna get in anywhere at this point though....so I'm hoping the UG is worth something theory pans out. maybe it'll make up for my god aweful GPA somehow.

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Re: WSJ Ranking of Feeder Undergrad schools [#permalink]

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New post 24 Nov 2008, 15:22
Sleepy wrote:
ElleBee wrote:
Sleepy wrote:
I went to a top 10 school on this list and it was a bit odd to be running into our alums everywhere when visiting campus. I had a friend I hadn't talked to since graduation on my Tuck tour, my class visits at both Tuck and Kellogg were led by fellow alums. Makes me wonder about the undergrad influence question. Especially since both the Tuck and Kellogg student mentioned how similar their experience at those schools was to undergrad in the work hard/play hard combination as well as in the general academic environment.


I hear you. It can actually be kind of a turn-off too, when you discover an alum from your UG whom you didn't like in UG is at a school you like. Obviously, you won't run into them too much and it's not like you're going to love everyone you meet in business school, but when you already KNOW someone you really dislike is at a small business school sometimes it's a deal-breaker. This happened to be me yesterday, when I was surfing around FB and realized someone I really didn't like from UG is in a business school I'm planning on applying to. Of course I'll still apply and (if accepted) would love to attend, but it did make me stop for a second and think.

Hmmm. Wonder if WE went to the same UG too.


lol, no chance of that. We had a ban on greeks. I'm so worried I'm not gonna get in anywhere at this point though....so I'm hoping the UG is worth something theory pans out. maybe it'll make up for my god aweful GPA somehow.


Ahhhh, a ban on Greeks. I definitely know all the places you DIDN'T go on the list! Don't worry though, I'm sure you'll get in somewhere you want to go, as long as your GMAT and essays are where they need to be. A lot of people say UG is a non-factor or just a tie-breaker, but I would say from anecdotal evidence that it's a little more than that. It won't make up for major shortcomings, but it'll help. I was actually at an admissions event for a top 15 business school this month and was talking to the admissions officer about how I got a C- in Calculus I and whether or not she thought I should take some additional quant courses to help mitigate that. She asked where I had gone to UG and when I told her, she told me I didn't need any additional courses. So, even with a lower GPA, admissions officers oftentimes recognize that a lower grade here and there, from certain schools, can be overlooked.
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New post 24 Nov 2008, 17:55
The problem I have with the methodology is that they omitted Stanford from entirely from their lists of elite grad schools. As we know, Stanford definitely deserves a place among the top 5 business schools and top 5 law schools (maybe med school as well, but I don't really know), and I think that skews the numbers. Stanford is really the only consistent challenge (maybe Chicago) when you're talking top 5.

I think if Stanford were included as a target destination for Business & Law, the rankings would look a lot different. I'd guess that Stanford undergrads would be neck and neck with Harvard and Yale if you included those placements, Berkeley would probably move into the top 20 (maybe higher) and UCLA would be on the list. My sense (just personal contact and a lot of time spent at some good schools) is that California natives and transplants, like those that fill Stanford, Berkeley and UCLA, would not pass up the opportunity to attend Stanford Business or Law for any other school. Based on the actual schools chosen for the list, it's no surprise that the results are heavily weighted towards the Northeast.

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pelihu wrote:
The problem I have with the methodology is that they omitted Stanford from entirely from their lists of elite grad schools. As we know, Stanford definitely deserves a place among the top 5 business schools and top 5 law schools (maybe med school as well, but I don't really know), and I think that skews the numbers. Stanford is really the only consistent challenge (maybe Chicago) when you're talking top 5.

I think if Stanford were included as a target destination for Business & Law, the rankings would look a lot different. I'd guess that Stanford undergrads would be neck and neck with Harvard and Yale if you included those placements, Berkeley would probably move into the top 20 (maybe higher) and UCLA would be on the list. My sense (just personal contact and a lot of time spent at some good schools) is that California natives and transplants, like those that fill Stanford, Berkeley and UCLA, would not pass up the opportunity to attend Stanford Business or Law for any other school. Based on the actual schools chosen for the list, it's no surprise that the results are heavily weighted towards the Northeast.


Good catch. I was surprised to see Pomona so high on the list.
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New post 24 Nov 2008, 18:14
I'm not on the list - hopefully that makes me "unique".
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Re: WSJ Ranking of Feeder Undergrad schools   [#permalink] 24 Nov 2008, 18:14
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