Your thoughts on mistreatment of Indians and others in Ukraine

Question

Hello,
I see there is a good amount of buzz on this site just as there is all over the internet about supporting Ukraine. But I don't see much about the abhorrent treatment Ukrainians have given to Indians, Africans, etc. (basically all non-whites) during this war. Especially, those who are there to contribute to the economy of Ukraine as students and business people. Certainly, this is not as popular of a topic since it diminishes the focus on apparent mistreatment of Ukraine by Russia even after fair warnings by Russians and others as well as corrupt politicians of Ukraine having neglected Putin's requests.

bb · Answer

Thank you for posting. I think you know my position - it is unacceptable and very unfortunate there is discrimination happening in Ukraine. I agree that it is unacceptable to discriminate on the basis of sex, race or skin color.

However, I am afraid Putin's requests (as you call them) to denazify Ukraine, remove Nazi president of Ukraine (who is Jewish) and disband its military were not possible to do. Ukrainian people and system are not perfect and there is a ton of corruption - lots of petty politics too (though I would say less than in Russia). Ukrainian president was not an angel and was not very effective for the first year or two of his presidency. However, the president was democratically elected by choice. People have a choice of their government, choice of multiple news sources, and other freedoms that Putin has removed at home from his own people. Putin has made impossible demands on a sovereign state (they are not requests) and then invaded that state, killing innocent civilians. No matter the corruption or other requests, you cannot justify invasion killing civilians.

My sincere suggestion for you would be to help the African and Indian students - you can raise money for them or work with non-profits fighting discrimination. I think a lot could be done in Ukraine alone. There are some non-profits there working on this issue, I hope. However, I don't think you want to justify Putin's invasion and murder with anything. There is no justification.

Edit: P.S. I am an involved party so perhaps someone who is more neutral can comment on it better as I am definitely not impartial in this case.

Prep4GMAT · Answer

bb, You are being dubious at best. You forgot to mention gov't of Ukraine has supported Azov and they have almost a free pass at whatever they do by top brass of officials turning blind eye towards Azov's atrocities. Azov much? Also, I expected you to at least know that Nazi's did not only target jews. Jews, unfortunately, got the biggest brunt of it. But the Ukrainian version of Nazi's are Nazi (minus) open Jew hatred, that means hatred towards all non-whites in open while closet hating the jews. These people have wide support among Ukrainians and are looked up upon. In your PM to me, you almost refused to accept that Indians got terrible treatment by saying only the border guards and police are to blame. Now, with your GMAT score, I would assume you would possess enough critical thinking to realize that such acts are not performed with momentary hatred towards those who look different than you. This is widespread and bred among majority of the Ukrainians. Here are the videos for reference: * https://youtu.be/90DtDw-5TvU * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvRCocO3g8A It's interesting to see that Russians helped Indians and others out of the country while Ukrainians were giving them a hell. Makes you stop and think how relative the perception of evil is. And no, helping some charity in Ukraine teaching tolerance will not help. That is up to you and your countrymen to do. My job as an Indian and an American is to make it known what is refuged among plight of seemingly poor Ukrainians, pure hatred. I am sure there will be Indians in this forum who would disagree with me. And that is fine, they cannot help but be purely forgiving. Just as many have in Poland and other countries to shelter and feed those who cross border from Ukraine regardless of their skin color, religion or belief. All it matter is they are hungry and in despair in need of help. Oh, and btw, don't try to take a cheap shot by making up some fable what-about-ism by pointing this back at some issues in India that also need attention.

chetan2u · Answer

I may have missed out but would have rarely heard about racism in Ukraine. Once in a while you hear of it in almost in all countries. There are/were 20000 Indian students studying medical in Ukraine. Maybe if racism existed in day to day life, they would not have been sitting there. But, yes, there are reports of mistreatment of Indian students and whatever be the reason for it - racism or India’s abstinence - the mistreatment is not justified. Similarly, whatever be Putin’s concerns, the suffering being forced on common citizen is not justified.

Almost every country has its own share of corruption and corrupt politicians, and Ukraine is no different. For every video talking of ills in a society, there will be many that show humanity in the same very country, same very location.

As an Indian, I may understand compulsions of Indian government in abstinence and agree with that but the actions of Russia, or I may say just one person, are not justified in civilised world. It is easy to pass judgements and opinions based on messages floating around sitting thousands of miles away but what matters is the view of the person suffering in this.

Finally, let us keep our temper in check, it is difficult times where anger and frustration looms large. Of course, we should not get personal. May good sense prevails and we have better times ahead.

Prep4GMAT · Answer

As expected, an Indian denying reality or turning blind to it as long it's not it's his own problem.

Just to put things in perspective, what irked me is that BB flatly deflected the blame to border guards and police then got into what-about-ism game. I sent him the same links I posted in my response to him in this thread. These are among many recordings and reports.

As to your claim about this not being a major issue, believe me, I know what it feels like to be on the receiving end of racism and unfair treatment due to color of skin since I've spent most of my life from childhood in USA. This behavior of Ukranians was not due to Indian's abstinence vote. I suggest you do a bit more research on this topic to gain balanced perspective. If it was solely based on the vote then Pakistanis, Middle Easterners and Africans wouldn't have hard time also. If you want to keep your head in the sand and hope things are all rosy then please by all means go ahead, but I would suggest you do a bit more research before trying to shoot down my attempt at defending those of same origin as us, and others who get terrible treatment at those who think they are superior simply due to the color of their skin.

chetan2u · Answer

I don't think you read it completely. I said WHATEVER be the reasons and as you refer to critical thinking in your earlier post, WHATEVER does not talk of a specific thing. I told you I do not want to get personal and ask you about your research, your balanced stand etc. However erratic we may be in our rationale, we all believe in my way or no way.

It is hard to believe why one continues to live in a country that subjects one to racism, why does one continue to live in self pity. It is always better to eat less or earn less but with pride and dignity. 
BTW, I said mistreatment of anyone on any grounds is wrong. I do not intend to get into a verbal altercation but would surely feel sorry for the person who would justify the sufferings of a nation in name of racism at border. What happened at border was pathetic and what is happening now is equally distressing and disgusting.

Prep4GMAT · Answer

Not sure where to begin in my response. But I think I'll take the high road by not responding to your "personal" attacks starting with your first post. But also, there are no minds to be changed with a good debate since it'll really bear no fruits when the receiver carries willful blindness to the reality so that he can cater to his own purpose.

Anyway, this forum was to bring awareness out of care and really get everyone's point of view. Especially since BB decided to play ignorant to such news and when delivered examples from major news media he easily dismissed it by saying only hold those who were caught in the act responsible. Then played the game of what-about-ism by pointing out issues in China and India, then created a strawman to defeat by telling me to contribute to causes instead of sitting idle without knowing my background. This is all while his country of origin did not take steps to curb horrible treatment of non-whites until it garnered world wide attention, and he had the gall of creating a special link asking Indians to contribute. I am not blaming him for what happened in Ukraine to non-whites but when I respectfully mentioned it, he showed ignorance and stooped to play game of deflection. But you Chetan2u, decided to take away credibility from the sources I provided, minimized significance of a real issue, and stooped lower by insinuating that I am living in self pity while living in USA. You really did show your true capacity to understand issues and display of critical reasoning. I will not poke it further, I'll let you live with whatever is left of it.

Here's a tip, just check your original post, my response, and your response in relativeness. It may be a good exercise also. You might come to a bit different conclusion than you did in your emotional swing when you wrote the second post. You'll find lot of your assumptions about what I said to be flat-out wrong. Cheers!

chetan2u · Answer

Prep4GMAT

I wouldn’t want to get personal ever, so the remark of self pity was surely not for you but a general remark for everyone suffering because of racism and even regionalism. If you felt so, I am sorry for that. Wouldn’t ever hurt anyone leave aside someone who has same roots.

Having said that, I would still believe what is being forced on a nation is condemnable and should be unequivocally abhorred by all. Mistreatment of anyone on basis of racism is equally detestable.

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Your thoughts on mistreatment of Indians and others in Ukraine

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