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smusCOX
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 13 Nov 2010, 03:11
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walker
Hey, guys, we all can disagree on criteria but maybe something is going on in Cox.
It seems Bloomberg BW is not the only one.
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Walker, Something IS going on with SMU's Cox. Mark my words -- Soon SMU's Cox is going to be huge probably bigger than Michigan's Ross and Chicago's Booth!!
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walker
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 13 Nov 2010, 07:00
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Maybe bigger but Booth will be always better :))))
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Rux10
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 13 Nov 2010, 08:24
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Trying to analyse and portray meaningful conclusions from the percecptions and expectations of a bunch of students and recruiters is almost completely futile! So many factors are ambiguous. For instance how much has the economy and crappy job market skewed students perceptions of their own expectations!

Regionality isnt taken into account either. SMU went up quite a lot because students and recruiters are obviously happy with the school. UT however, even though its student satisfaction levels are the highest of the last 6 years... drops 4 places from 21 to 25! I would imaging SMU and UT would have similar recruiting patterns also. They (and Mays) have a lot of the south on lockdown. Curious, I asked the BW editors when they hosted an online chat last thursday. They couldn't quantify the drop of UT either.

Of the 3 main ratings i'm allocating about 10% weight to BW when aggregating my own personal rankings.
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lagomez
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 13 Nov 2010, 08:27
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Rux10
Trying to analyse and portray meaningful conclusions from the percecptions and expectations of a bunch of students and recruiters is almost completely futile! So many factors are ambiguous. For instance how much has the economy and crappy job market skewed students perceptions of their own expectations!

Regionality isnt taken into account either. SMU went up quite a lot because students and recruiters are obviously happy with the school. UT however, even though its student satisfaction levels are the highest of the last 6 years... drops 4 places from 21 to 25! I would imaging SMU and UT would have similar recruiting patterns also. They (and Mays) have a lot of the south on lockdown. Curious, I asked the BW editors when they hosted an online chat last thursday. They couldn't quantify the drop of UT either.

Of the 3 main ratings i'm allocating about 10% weight to BW when aggregating my own personal rankings.
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My guess is that UT students expect a higher salary. Because most of the UT and SMU grads end up in the same place, geographically, why not hire MBA students at SMU and pay them less.
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highhopes
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 13 Nov 2010, 08:55
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Each year's rankings just show the same thing...use the rankings as a starting point to get a general idea of schools to target and then do your own homework from there. If you're compiling a ranking of the rankings, in my opinion, you're going about your selection process the wrong way.

BW & US News both have their flaws. For example, do you really think that USNWR's quality ranking is any better than what BW does? Compare it to the corporate world - would you think a ranking where Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan evaluated each other would be free from bias? B-schools with an early graduation will argue that USNWR's placement success measure is unfair. Everyone will always have something to complain about because you can't accurately capture everything through one ranking.
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Rux10
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 13 Nov 2010, 10:18
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Rux10
Trying to analyse and portray meaningful conclusions from the percecptions and expectations of a bunch of students and recruiters is almost completely futile! So many factors are ambiguous. For instance how much has the economy and crappy job market skewed students perceptions of their own expectations!

Regionality isnt taken into account either. SMU went up quite a lot because students and recruiters are obviously happy with the school. UT however, even though its student satisfaction levels are the highest of the last 6 years... drops 4 places from 21 to 25! I would imaging SMU and UT would have similar recruiting patterns also. They (and Mays) have a lot of the south on lockdown. Curious, I asked the BW editors when they hosted an online chat last thursday. They couldn't quantify the drop of UT either.

Of the 3 main ratings i'm allocating about 10% weight to BW when aggregating my own personal rankings.

My guess is that UT students expect a higher salary. Because most of the UT and SMU grads end up in the same place, geographically, why not hire MBA students at SMU and pay them less.
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True, that's surely one reason!
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2010 Businessweek Rankings Updated on: 17 Mar 2011, 00:47
Originally posted by Thr33 on 13 Nov 2010, 14:38.
Last edited by Thr33 on 17 Mar 2011, 00:47, edited 1 time in total.
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The big surprises for me are Duke moving up, Haas dropping down and Stern and Yale stuck so low.
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2010 Businessweek Rankings Updated on: 14 Nov 2010, 11:38
Originally posted by adishail on 14 Nov 2010, 11:28.
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There is no doubt that business schools care about ranking. It is all about ranking. Business school is a business itself. Don't you want you business to be listed in the Fortune 500 ?

For example - one of the thing that to some extend impacts rankings is the average GPA/GMAT. Most of the scholarships are merit based. So how does the school decide on that ? GPA ? GMAT ? Both numbers pop up when the average is calculated at the end of the admission year. People with higher GPA/GMAT tend to get bigger scholarships and end up in better schools. Does a higher GMAT/GPA confirm that you are going to be a professionally successful post MBA human being ? No. But schools still give out money based on these numbers. They are buying your stats.
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 14 Nov 2010, 11:36
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adishail
They are buying your stats.
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True
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 15 Nov 2010, 11:27
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When I was trying to decide on schools, one of the things I did was look through GMAT Club member profiles and see where they had applied, been accepted, and which they chose. I think it's important to realize that students "vote with their feet". For example, even though Booth is #1 in BW above HBS, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone accepting Booth over HBS.

It would be nice if that could be reflected somehow in the rankings.
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 15 Nov 2010, 12:05
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vincev84
When I was trying to decide on schools, one of the things I did was look through GMAT Club member profiles and see where they had applied, been accepted, and which they chose. I think it's important to realize that students "vote with their feet". For example, even though Booth is #1 in BW above HBS, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone accepting Booth over HBS.

It would be nice if that could be reflected somehow in the rankings.
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It may not be reflected in the rankings, but one could look at the yield statistic to determine this for one's self.
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vincev84
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 15 Nov 2010, 12:33
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Yield can be useful, although it is only helpful among a peer group of schools that are after the same candidates. Doesn't indicate who its peers actually are.
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 15 Nov 2010, 14:08
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vincev84
When I was trying to decide on schools, one of the things I did was look through GMAT Club member profiles and see where they had applied, been accepted, and which they chose. I think it's important to realize that students "vote with their feet". For example, even though Booth is #1 in BW above HBS, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone accepting Booth over HBS.

It would be nice if that could be reflected somehow in the rankings.
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I agree. The best measurement of a school's "ranking" is the order in which people would choose the school over its peers. Such a ranking would produce results similar to the traditional M7 and beyond.

I'd expect the groupings for the top 15 to look like this (on average)
Group 1. Harvard/Stanford
Group 2. Wharton
Group 3. Booth/Kellogg/Sloan
Group 4. Columbia
Group 5. Haas/Tuck
Group 6. Anderson/Darden/Fuqua/Ross/Stern/Yale

Now, we have plenty of GMAT Club members who have proven that this grouping isn't true in all cases, but I think it's close enough for a generalization. Each school has it's own specialization, so in some cases it actually makes sense to attend a school from a lower grouping (i.e. Haas over Kellogg). There's also the factor of location, teaching methods, and school culture. For sake of this grouping, you should assume that cost of attendance is the same at each of the schools, but we know that's another factor that often influences peoples decisions in the real world.

What do you guys think? Would you arrange these schools differently?
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 15 Nov 2010, 14:23
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Avernusaur

I'd expect the groupings for the top 15 to look like this (on average)
Group 1. Harvard/Stanford
Group 2. Wharton
Group 3. Booth/Kellogg/Sloan
Group 4. Columbia
Group 5. Haas/Tuck
Group 6. Anderson/Darden/Fuqua/Ross/Stern/Yale

Now, we have plenty of GMAT Club members who have proven that this grouping isn't true in all cases, but I think it's close enough for a generalization. Each school has it's own specialization, so in some cases it actually makes sense to attend a school from a lower grouping (i.e. Haas over Kellogg). There's also the factor of location, teaching methods, and school culture. For sake of this grouping, you should assume that cost of attendance is the same at each of the schools, but we know that's another factor that often influences peoples decisions in the real world.

What do you guys think? Would you arrange these schools differently?
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I would generally agree with the above as well, but would make couple of minor changes:

Group 1. Harvard/Stanford
Group 2. Wharton
Group 3. Booth/Kellogg/Sloan
Group 4. Columbia/Haas
Group 5. Anderson/Darden/Fuqua/Ross/Stern/Tuck/Yale

Or
Group 1. Harvard/Stanford
Group 2. Wharton
Group 3. Booth/Columbia/Kellogg/Sloan
Group 4. Haas/Tuck
Group 5. Anderson/Darden/Fuqua/Ross/Stern/Yale

Obviously there are a bunch of wiggle room when it comes to the groups 3 to 6 (or to 5 in my case). I'm sure others will have slightly different groups as well.
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adalfu
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 15 Nov 2010, 14:26
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Or even:

Group 1. Harvard/Stanford
Group 2. Wharton
Group 3. Booth/Kellogg/Sloan
Group 4. Columbia/Haas/Tuck
Group 5. Anderson/Darden/Fuqua/Ross/Stern/Yale
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dc3828102
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 15 Nov 2010, 16:09
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adalfu
Or even:

Group 1. Harvard/Stanford
Group 2. Wharton
Group 3. Booth/Kellogg/Sloan
Group 4. Columbia/Haas/Tuck
Group 5. Anderson/Darden/Fuqua/Ross/Stern/Yale
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What about Big Red(Cornell)? Andy Bernard anybody?
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vincev84
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 15 Nov 2010, 16:57
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I agree with this one:

Group 1. Harvard/Stanford
Group 2. Wharton
Group 3. Booth/Columbia/Kellogg/Sloan
Group 4. Haas/Tuck
Group 5. Anderson/Darden/Fuqua/Ross/Stern/Yale
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adalfu
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 15 Nov 2010, 17:15
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dc3828102
adalfu
Or even:

Group 1. Harvard/Stanford
Group 2. Wharton
Group 3. Booth/Kellogg/Sloan
Group 4. Columbia/Haas/Tuck
Group 5. Anderson/Darden/Fuqua/Ross/Stern/Yale

What about Big Red(Cornell)? Andy Bernard anybody?
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Substitute Cornell with either Anderson or Fuqua if you like. But I still think Cornell is (just) slightly outside top 16.
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khan77
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 16 Nov 2010, 00:41
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you can't base any decision on one rankings. you should at least do an average of 3-4 rankings to get the picture...
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deechi
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2010 Businessweek Rankings 16 Nov 2010, 06:05
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Avernusaur
vincev84
When I was trying to decide on schools, one of the things I did was look through GMAT Club member profiles and see where they had applied, been accepted, and which they chose. I think it's important to realize that students "vote with their feet". For example, even though Booth is #1 in BW above HBS, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone accepting Booth over HBS.

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I have. I think you guys are putting way too much emphasis on a what amounts to a statistically insignificant difference between the program. The fact of the matter is each school is generally frequented by the "top companies". As such, how successful you are is still a function of what you bring to the table and what you make of your opportunities. I think someone would be doing themselves an extreme disservice if they didn't look at the problems holistically to determine where they would fit in the most and where they would be able to maximize their opportunities.
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