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A musicologist doing research in an early music archive in London has

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Re: A musicologist doing research in an early music archive in London has [#permalink]

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New post 16 Sep 2016, 02:10
Option E can be understood as, People were influenced by sugg and used his style of writing.
So the found writing is not of sugg's.

Even E is weakening.
Where am i going wrong ?

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Re: A musicologist doing research in an early music archive in London has [#permalink]

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New post 16 Sep 2016, 13:52
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VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
taleesh wrote:
Sir

I am still not understanding why is A correct here- as arguments clearly mention - PRODUCED IN 17TH CENTURY, REASON OF BELIEF MELODY OF SNUGGS WORK BUT ATYPICAL OF OTHER 17TH CENTURY COMPOSER.
SO OPTION CONFIRMS THAT - SONG PRODUCED IN 17TH CENTURY WERE COMPOSED IN 16TH CENTURY Therefore it could be composed by SNUGG.

Is extreme word MANY and 16th cnetury composers - generalizing the point made in the argument -stating it can be any composed by any 16th century composer and not certainly snugg.


Responding to a pm:

I think this is where you are lost:

17th century means the 1600s (1601 to 1700). Suggs lived in the 17th century (1619 - 1670)
16th century means the 1500s.

Since the song was published in the 17th century, the author is assuming that it was written in the 17th century (by Suggs). It is possible that the song was written in the previous century by someone else but published much later. So option (A) weakens our argument that the song was written by Suggs.


Hi Karishma,

Option A- implies that the song might have been written in another century. but this is not a must.

Notice that option C works on that same logic.

Option C p implies that another parameter that characterize the song is a possible indicator that it has been written by someone else. This is a possible weakener as well since it might weaken the argument.

Hence, i find this question flawed :)


Note what a typical songwriter does - create lyrics and melody of the song.

(C) The harmonies of the song are consistent with those used by Suggs and other 17th century songwriters.
Option (C) talks about the harmony - the notes that support the melody - of the song. We are not discussing the harmonies, who creates harmonies, which songwriters use which harmonies etc. The argument talks about the songwriters only.

Hence, (C) is irrelevant to our question.[/quote]

Hi Karishma,

This is what I think. First I cleared up what the term musicology refers. So by definition from Dictionary.com it is "the scholarly or scientific study of music, as in historical research, musical theory, or the physical nature of sound. So in fact the musicologist is studying the musical part of the song. Now Harmony is when two or notes are buduled together and they produce a harmony, typical example is the cords of guitar, A-dur, A - mol, C D F and so on. So a composer is very often to incoprorate his harmonies in more than one song and that becomes his line or trade mark sort to say About the MElody. well that is single notes played one after another makes teh song melody, that is what you remmeber of the song and sing along. So HArmony is bunch of notes played together and MElody is one after another. . Another point is that I think the musicologust is studying the musical part of the song and not the lyrics of the song.
Next from the question stem we get "A musicologist doing research in an early music archive in London has come across a song published in the early 17th century that he believes was composed by the songwriter John Suggs (1619 - 1670), though Suggs' name is not given on the song sheet.
Here if someone is compsing a song it means that he writes the music of the song, he is the composer of the music and textwriter does the lyrics of the song. a songwriter writes the notes for the song but not neccessarly the lyrics. By the way we have songs without lyrics. NExt point if someone uses the same melody for more than one song that will be pretty much the same song, or is someone else uses the melody that will be a Plagiat. But every song usess the harmoies known to the whole world A-dur, A - mol, C D F and so on, and every musician knows what A-dur means and which 3 notes are used to produce the harmony.
So if Suggs is known for making songs from lets say 4 harmonies than we can assume that is his song, but if there are other musicians also using the same 4 harmonis and they are consistent with these harmonies than we can not say that he is the composer, it might be someone else too.
So this is how C wekaens the argument, some otehr comosers did use the harmonies and were consistent with those harmonies.

A is also a weakener but C can not be discarded, that is why I suggested to revise the question

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A musicologist doing research in an early music archive in London has [#permalink]

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New post 28 Sep 2016, 01:55
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VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
AlexGenkins1234 wrote:
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:

Option A- implies that the song might have been written in another century. but this is not a must.

Notice that option C works on that same logic.

Option C p implies that another parameter that characterize the song is a possible indicator that it has been written by someone else. This is a possible weakener as well since it might weaken the argument.

Hence, i find this question flawed :)


Note what a typical songwriter does - create lyrics and melody of the song.

(C) The harmonies of the song are consistent with those used by Suggs and other 17th century songwriters.
Option (C) talks about the harmony - the notes that support the melody - of the song. We are not discussing the harmonies, who creates harmonies, which songwriters use which harmonies etc. The argument talks about the songwriters only.

Hence, (C) is irrelevant to our question.


Hi Karishma,

Option A- implies that the song might have been written in another century. but this is not a must.

Notice that option C works on that same logic.

Option C p implies that another parameter that characterize the song is a possible indicator that it has been written by someone else. This is a possible weakener as well since it might weaken the argument.

Hence, i find this question flawed :)


Note what a typical songwriter does - create lyrics and melody of the song.

(C) The harmonies of the song are consistent with those used by Suggs and other 17th century songwriters.
Option (C) talks about the harmony - the notes that support the melody - of the song. We are not discussing the harmonies, who creates harmonies, which songwriters use which harmonies etc. The argument talks about the songwriters only.

Hence, (C) is irrelevant to our question.[/quote]

Hi,

Thank you for your response.

the dictionary definition of melody is "the principal part in a harmonic composition".

Consequently, Harmony (according to wikipedia) is defined as "the use of simultaneous pitches (tones, notes), or chords"

notes/tones/chords->Melody->Harmony

Obviously, if we were to change the melody and the harmony would have stayed the same this will negate the core definition, since the melody is "the principal part" of the harmony.

Hence, if the harmony was changed, it must follow that the melody was changed, and so the argument is weakened.

Would appreciate your feedback :)

"melody" - dictionary.com - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/melody
"harmony - wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmony

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Re: A musicologist doing research in an early music archive in London has [#permalink]

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New post 16 Oct 2016, 11:44
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
sun01 wrote:
The argument also assumes that musicologist also knows about much of sugg's work and its style.

In light of this assumption, option D can also be a weakener.

Please correct my reasoning


No, it doesn't. Look at the argument again:

"The reason for the musicologist's belief is that the phrasing of the melody is typical of Suggs' work and atypical of songs written by other 17th century composers."

The argument doesn't say that the musicologist believes that the phrasing is similar to Suggs'... It says that the musicologist believes it is written by Suggs because the phrasing IS typical of Suggs' work. So it is given to be true that the phrasing is typical of Suggs' work.

Also note that (D) says "The musicologist is not familiar with ALL of Suggs' music."
This doesn't make a very strong case against the musicologist's knowledge. He may not know ALL of Suggs' work but he may know most of it. He may still be considered an expert.


Please if you can elaborate on D. I am not sure why D cannot be the answer. If the musicologist is not aware of ALL of Sugg's music, isn't the conclusion weakened. How can musicologist comment that the work is typical of Sugg's when he himself is not aware of ALL of Sugg's music? May be he makes a comment of what part of Sugg's music he knows about, thereby weakening the force behind the conclusion.

VeritasPrepKarishma please help. I don't get this at all.

Thank you.

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Re: A musicologist doing research in an early music archive in London has [#permalink]

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New post 17 Oct 2016, 10:15
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Keats wrote:
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
sun01 wrote:
The argument also assumes that musicologist also knows about much of sugg's work and its style.

In light of this assumption, option D can also be a weakener.

Please correct my reasoning


No, it doesn't. Look at the argument again:

"The reason for the musicologist's belief is that the phrasing of the melody is typical of Suggs' work and atypical of songs written by other 17th century composers."

The argument doesn't say that the musicologist believes that the phrasing is similar to Suggs'... It says that the musicologist believes it is written by Suggs because the phrasing IS typical of Suggs' work. So it is given to be true that the phrasing is typical of Suggs' work.

Also note that (D) says "The musicologist is not familiar with ALL of Suggs' music."
This doesn't make a very strong case against the musicologist's knowledge. He may not know ALL of Suggs' work but he may know most of it. He may still be considered an expert.


Please if you can elaborate on D. I am not sure why D cannot be the answer. If the musicologist is not aware of ALL of Sugg's music, isn't the conclusion weakened. How can musicologist comment that the work is typical of Sugg's when he himself is not aware of ALL of Sugg's music? May be he makes a comment of what part of Sugg's music he knows about, thereby weakening the force behind the conclusion.

VeritasPrepKarishma please help. I don't get this at all.

Thank you.


Option D implies that the musicologist is not aware of certain works of Suggs that may or may not match with the song in question. It actually does not matter whether that unknown part of Suggs' work matches with the song - the fact that the musicologist already found similarity with the part of Suggs' work that he knows is not weakened by the dissimilarity (if at all there is) of the unknown part, given that such a song is atypical of other composers.

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Re: A musicologist doing research in an early music archive in London has [#permalink]

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New post 17 Oct 2016, 11:15
sayantanc2k wrote:
Option D implies that the musicologist is not aware of certain works of Suggs that may or may not match with the song in question. It actually does not matter whether that unknown part of Suggs' work matches with the song - the fact that the musicologist already found similarity with the part of Suggs' work that he knows is not weakened by the dissimilarity (if at all there is) of the unknown part, given that such a song is atypical of other composers.


This makes sense. Valid point!

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A musicologist doing research in an early music archive in London has [#permalink]

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New post 02 Nov 2016, 06:30
personalization of the argument helps better to stick with the argument

A is the correct answer

for our Indian friends- i give a better analogy-

Annu Malik, a bollywood composer known for tharki melodies, often steals many Rajasthani and Bhojpuri folk tharki melodies in his songs, these folk songs are from centuries, if someone listens these Annu Malik songs in future and says that originally the music of these songs is composed by Annu Malik,he or she will be wrong, because Annu malik copied the melodies for which there is no one to claim who is the original composer.

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Re: A musicologist doing research in an early music archive in London has [#permalink]

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New post 15 Apr 2017, 08:04
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
taleesh wrote:
Sir

I am still not understanding why is A correct here- as arguments clearly mention - PRODUCED IN 17TH CENTURY, REASON OF BELIEF MELODY OF SNUGGS WORK BUT ATYPICAL OF OTHER 17TH CENTURY COMPOSER.
SO OPTION CONFIRMS THAT - SONG PRODUCED IN 17TH CENTURY WERE COMPOSED IN 16TH CENTURY Therefore it could be composed by SNUGG.

Is extreme word MANY and 16th cnetury composers - generalizing the point made in the argument -stating it can be any composed by any 16th century composer and not certainly snugg.


Responding to a pm:

I think this is where you are lost:

17th century means the 1600s (1601 to 1700). Suggs lived in the 17th century (1619 - 1670)
16th century means the 1500s.

Since the song was published in the 17th century, the author is assuming that it was written in the 17th century (by Suggs). It is possible that the song was written in the previous century by someone else but published much later. So option (A) weakens our argument that the song was written by Suggs.


Great spot Karishma. This is where I was lost as well. Thanks.

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Re: A musicologist doing research in an early music archive in London has [#permalink]

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New post 19 Apr 2017, 00:42
Answer:A

because it opens the possibility that the songs(including sugg's) published in the early 17th century were composed by 16th century composers( he wasn't alive then)
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Re: A musicologist doing research in an early music archive in London has [#permalink]

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New post 19 Apr 2017, 03:10
A musicologist doing research in an early music archive in London has come across a song published in the early 17th century that he believes was composed by the songwriter John Suggs (1619 - 1670), though Suggs' name is not given on the song sheet. The reason for the musicologist's belief is that the phrasing of the melody is typical of Suggs' work and atypical of songs written by other 17th century composers.

Which of the following, if true, would weaken the argument made by the musicologist?

Many songs published in the early 17th century were composed by 16th century composers.

If many of the songs published in early 17th century were composed by 16th century composer than it would be quite difficult to judge the composition if t hey have same composition thus weakening the musicologist composition.

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Re: A musicologist doing research in an early music archive in London has [#permalink]

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New post 06 Nov 2017, 18:06
taleesh wrote:
I choose d - a seems strengthening the argument need expert advice in this......



There is an apparent difference between Harmony and Melody.

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Re: A musicologist doing research in an early music archive in London has   [#permalink] 06 Nov 2017, 18:06

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