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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into

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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into northern Minnesota would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than one wolf for every 39 square miles.


(A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than

(B) would fail provided the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more than

(C) should fail if the timber wolf density in that region was greater than

(D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than

(E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region were more numerous than


Guys I need a explanation of OG's Explanation MORE NUMEROUS THAN can't go with Uncountable Density. Greater than is required.
Is "more numerous" different from "more than".
Because "more than " I think can go with both countable and uncountable.
I need more biscuits than my brother.
Plant X needs more care than plant Y.
As per the new report muslim population is greater/more numerous than catholic population. (which one is correct )


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Question No.: SC 122

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Originally posted by BukrsGmat on 31 Jan 2012, 15:36.
Last edited by Bunuel on 07 Nov 2018, 02:37, edited 1 time in total.
Renamed the topic and edited the question.
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Re: A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Feb 2012, 07:38
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1
1. When the main clause is in present tense, it is grammatically wrong to use the past tense in the sub-clause. Hence would is incorrect in such situations and would is acceptable only in reported texts.

2. The word ‘would’ is sometimes used in subjunctive mood, where there is an element of speculation in the context. However, in the given example, there is no such speculation; It is a categorical ‘if --- then’ structure. Hence normal rules of the conditional sentences apply in the given case; In conditional sentences, while the subordinate conditional clause will be in simple present, the main clause will be in either simple present or simple future

3. Between D and E, let us simply ignore E for using the inappropriate ‘more numerous’ as if density is a countable noun.
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Re: A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Sep 2012, 21:52
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into northern Minnesota would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than one wolf for every 39 square miles.

A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than
B )would fail provided the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more than
C )should fail if the timber wolf density in that region was greater than
D )will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than
E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region were more numerous than

There are two approachs to solve this question:

a) According to some experts, the difference between WILL and WOULD is related to the certainty of
the information expressed in the sentence. In other words, how sure is the author about that topic.
In this sentence, the expert is sure that the reintroduction of the caribou WILL fail if the timber population is greater. If he were not so sure, we would have to use WOULD.

b) According to other experts, using WILL or WOULD depends on the tense of the sentence. If the tense is present we use WILL when we refer to the future. If the tense of the sentence is past, we use WOULD when we refer to the past. It's like reported speech.

What do you think about these two approachs? IMO, the second one is the correct IN THIS SENTENCE. Because the author is reporting something that the expert said, predicted.

What do you think?
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New post 14 Sep 2012, 22:39
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Hi sujit2k7,

To answer your question, yes, "more numerous" is different from "more than". While “more than”, as you yourself mentioned, can go with both countable and uncountable nouns, “more numerous” (meaning more in number) can’t possibly go with uncountable nouns. To take one of your examples, can you say “Plant X needs more numerous care than plant Y?” This does not make sense.

In any case, I think “more numerous” has a bit of wordiness and redundancy, and is better avoided even for countable nouns. “More” is enough to indicate greater in number.

Cheers,
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Re: A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Sep 2012, 23:44
rakesh.id wrote:
Hi sujit2k7,

To answer your question, yes, "more numerous" is different from "more than". While “more than”, as you yourself mentioned, can go with both countable and uncountable nouns, “more numerous” (meaning more in number) can’t possibly go with uncountable nouns. To take one of your examples, can you say “Plant X needs more numerous care than plant Y?” This does not make sense.

In any case, I think “more numerous” has a bit of wordiness and redundancy, and is better avoided even for countable nouns. “More” is enough to indicate greater in number.

Cheers,
Rakesh


To answer your question, yes, "more numerous" is different from "more than". While “more than”, as you yourself mentioned, can go with both countable and uncountable nouns, “more numerous” (meaning more in number) can’t possibly go with uncountable nouns. To take one of your examples, can you say "Plant X needs more numerous care than plant Y?” This does not make sense.

Can you give few more examples for more numerous v/s more than?
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New post 15 Sep 2012, 00:14
sujit2k7 wrote:
OG12# 122

A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into northern Minnesota would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than one wolf for every 39 square miles.

(A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than
(B) would fail provided the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more than
(C) should fail if the timber wolf density in that region was greater than
(D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than
(E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region were more numerous than

Guys I need a explanation of OG's Explanation MORE NUMEROUS THAN can't go with Uncountable Density. Greater than is required.
Is "more numerous" different from "more than".
Because "more than " I think can go with both countable and uncountable.
I need more biscuits than my brother.
Plant X needs more care than plant Y.
As per the new report muslim population is greater/more numerous than catholic population. (which one is correct )


the Construction of sentence in if then relaionship is: Present tense with future tense
Past Tense with Future tense.
So, option 'D' is clearly satisfying this condition.
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Oct 2012, 04:21
Is not the "If" part a "Hypothetical Subjunctive"?
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Re: A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Oct 2012, 20:42
I believe it is not and the answer is D. In general, the Hypothetical Subjunctive is associated with unlikely or unreal circumstances. This is a prediction but does not fit the bill.
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New post 18 Oct 2012, 05:37
shivahv1 wrote:
A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into northern Minnesota would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than one wolf for every 39 square miles.

(A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous

(B) would fail provided the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more

(C) should fail if the timber wolf density in that region was greater

(D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater

(E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region were more numerous

Is not the "If" part a "Hypothetical Subjunctive"?


The previous poster is right on. As the name suggests, the subjunctive is only used for things that haven't happen, are not happening and frankly aren't likely to happen. For example, "It would be funny if you were to wear a clown suit to work." I don't know anything about you, but it's probably safe to say that you wouldn't wear a clown suit to work. :)

In this example, we are dealing with an "expert" who is making a prediction about what is likely to happen in the future, therefore this would not use the 'hypothetical' subjunctive.

KW
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Re: A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Oct 2012, 09:04
KyleWiddison wrote:
shivahv1 wrote:
A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the
caribou into northern Minnesota would fail if the density
of the timber wolf population in that region is more
numerous
than one wolf for every 39 square miles.

(A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf
population in that region is more numerous
(B) would fail provided the density of the timber wolf
population in that region is more
(C) should fail if the timber wolf density in that
region was greater
(D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf
population in that region is greater
(E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region
were more numerous

Is not the "If" part a "Hypothetical Subjunctive"?


The previous poster is right on. As the name suggests, the subjunctive is only used for things that haven't happen, are not happening and frankly aren't likely to happen. For example, "It would be funny if you were to wear a clown suit to work." I don't know anything about you, but it's probably safe to say that you wouldn't wear a clown suit to work. :)

In this example, we are dealing with an "expert" who is making a prediction about what is likely to happen in the future, therefore this would not use the 'hypothetical' subjunctive.

KW



Hi Kyle

I chose E over D on the the following points and I would like to know your opinion.

Greater than - this is used while comparing two different things, for example, the deficit level of state X is greater than that of state y
More than - this is used while talking about the increase in the same parameter, for example, the deficit level of state x is now more than double of what it was last year.

I presumed, perhaps foolishly, that "more numerous than" is a sub category of "more than". Was this a wrong assumption to make?

I also feel that "were" is usually used to provide an alternate reality for the present. "If I were a rich man.." I am not a rich man right now but if I were a rich man now....
"We will treat this issue as if were trivial and plan accordingly" The issue is in fact quite serious but we will treat it as a trivial one.

The expert is not making a hypothetical case in which the population timber wolf is less than 1/39 sq miles but rather he is talking about a possible conceivable future in which the population could go beyond 1/39 sq miles. Therefore were can not be used here.

Hence I was stuck between a problem in each D and E and I chose E over D. Perhaps my "greater than" issue is in fact a non-issue.
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New post 22 Oct 2012, 05:35
1
harkabir wrote:
KyleWiddison wrote:
shivahv1 wrote:
A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the
caribou into northern Minnesota would fail if the density
of the timber wolf population in that region is more
numerous
than one wolf for every 39 square miles.

(A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf
population in that region is more numerous
(B) would fail provided the density of the timber wolf
population in that region is more
(C) should fail if the timber wolf density in that
region was greater
(D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf
population in that region is greater
(E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region
were more numerous

Is not the "If" part a "Hypothetical Subjunctive"?


The previous poster is right on. As the name suggests, the subjunctive is only used for things that haven't happen, are not happening and frankly aren't likely to happen. For example, "It would be funny if you were to wear a clown suit to work." I don't know anything about you, but it's probably safe to say that you wouldn't wear a clown suit to work. :)

In this example, we are dealing with an "expert" who is making a prediction about what is likely to happen in the future, therefore this would not use the 'hypothetical' subjunctive.

KW



Hi Kyle

I chose E over D on the the following points and I would like to know your opinion.

Greater than - this is used while comparing two different things, for example, the deficit level of state X is greater than that of state y
More than - this is used while talking about the increase in the same parameter, for example, the deficit level of state x is now more than double of what it was last year.

I presumed, perhaps foolishly, that "more numerous than" is a sub category of "more than". Was this a wrong assumption to make?

I also feel that "were" is usually used to provide an alternate reality for the present. "If I were a rich man.." I am not a rich man right now but if I were a rich man now....
"We will treat this issue as if were trivial and plan accordingly" The issue is in fact quite serious but we will treat it as a trivial one.

The expert is not making a hypothetical case in which the population timber wolf is less than 1/39 sq miles but rather he is talking about a possible conceivable future in which the population could go beyond 1/39 sq miles. Therefore were can not be used here.

Hence I was stuck between a problem in each D and E and I chose E over D. Perhaps my "greater than" issue is in fact a non-issue.


In this case, "greater than" and "more than" are almost certainly viewed as synonymous comparison terms. If you look closely, you are really dealing with "greater than" and "more numerous than", and in both cases the phrases properly compare a future state against the stated benchmark. So yes, your assumption about greater than/more than was off. For GMAT comparisons questions, you will see errors/splits on the things being compared (comparing things illogically) or you will see obvious errors in the comparison phrases ("more as" instead of "more than").

Your analysis of is/were is right on. These verb tense splits are very often tested on the GMAT, so for this problem you should have picked the answer choice that got the verb tense correct.

KW
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Re: A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Oct 2012, 07:32
KyleWiddison wrote:
harkabir wrote:
shivahv1 wrote:
A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the
caribou into northern Minnesota would fail if the density
of the timber wolf population in that region is more
numerous
than one wolf for every 39 square miles.

(A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf
population in that region is more numerous
(B) would fail provided the density of the timber wolf
population in that region is more
(C) should fail if the timber wolf density in that
region was greater
(D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf
population in that region is greater
(E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region
were more numerous

Is not the "If" part a "Hypothetical Subjunctive"?


Hi Kyle

I chose E over D on the the following points and I would like to know your opinion.

Greater than - this is used while comparing two different things, for example, the deficit level of state X is greater than that of state y
More than - this is used while talking about the increase in the same parameter, for example, the deficit level of state x is now more than double of what it was last year.

I presumed, perhaps foolishly, that "more numerous than" is a sub category of "more than". Was this a wrong assumption to make?

I also feel that "were" is usually used to provide an alternate reality for the present. "If I were a rich man.." I am not a rich man right now but if I were a rich man now....
"We will treat this issue as if were trivial and plan accordingly" The issue is in fact quite serious but we will treat it as a trivial one.

The expert is not making a hypothetical case in which the population timber wolf is less than 1/39 sq miles but rather he is talking about a possible conceivable future in which the population could go beyond 1/39 sq miles. Therefore were can not be used here.

Hence I was stuck between a problem in each D and E and I chose E over D. Perhaps my "greater than" issue is in fact a non-issue.


In this case, "greater than" and "more than" are almost certainly viewed as synonymous comparison terms. If you look closely, you are really dealing with "greater than" and "more numerous than", and in both cases the phrases properly compare a future state against the stated benchmark. So yes, your assumption about greater than/more than was off. For GMAT comparisons questions, you will see errors/splits on the things being compared (comparing things illogically) or you will see obvious errors in the comparison phrases ("more as" instead of "more than").

Your analysis of is/were is right on. These verb tense splits are very often tested on the GMAT, so for this problem you should have picked the answer choice that got the verb tense correct.

KW



Thanks a lot Kyle and a kudos to go with the appreciation. Your corroboration helps my confidence. If you have a little time could you give me two examples each of the correct usage of greater than and more numerous than. It will help me immensely. Thanks again :)
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New post 22 Oct 2012, 19:42
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Happy to help. Here are a few quick examples:

The waste material was rejected because the known carcinogen content was greater than 1 part per million
The waste material was rejected because the known carcinogen content was more numerous than 1 part per million.

My candy intake is greater than 2 pieces per day.
My candy intake is more numerous than 2 pieces per day.

With these examples you see that both are probably fine, but the "greater than" examples seem to have a more sensible (or understandable) meaning. In both cases, the comparison doesn't really compare to things, but rather they compare something against a benchmark (1 part per million, 2 pieces per day).

Hope that helps!

KW
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Re: A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Feb 2013, 05:04
1
whenever we see "if" we have to check weather the form of "will" or "no will" is correct.

there are 4 kinds

if do, then do: this is a fact not hypothetic

if do, then will do
if did, then would do
if had done, then would/could have done

there 3 kind is about hypotheticl not fact. we do not need to know the difference among 3 kinds because gmat can not test us on this point. just to know that last 3 kinds are about hypothetic action and the first one is a fact.

only knowing this point can allow us to go to oa.

second point
we never use physical description for some thing which can be measured by unit. density is 3 persons/m2, which can be measured and can not be described with "numerous" which is physical description. "greater" is used with number and so is correct.
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New post 11 Sep 2013, 13:34
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2
Rules of IF-THEN structure:
True at present: If + PRESENT, then + WILL
Untrue at present: If + PAST, then + WOULD
Untrue in the past: If + PAST PERFECT, then + WOULD + HAVE + P2



A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the Caribou into northern Minnesota would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than one wolf for every 39 square miles.

A) Would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than
Wrong. [would + is] <-- wrong. The correct if-then structure is: [would + past] --OR-- [will + present]

B) Would fail provided the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more than
Wrong. [would + is] <-- wrong. The correct if-then structure is: [would + past] --OR-- [will + present]

C) Should fail if the timber wolf density in that region was greater than
Wrong. "should" changes meaning because it makes the sentence be untrue condition in the present.

D) Will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than
Correct. Correct. [will + is] <-- correct.

E) Will fail if the timber wolf density in that region were more numerous than[/quote]
Wrong. [will + were] is wrong. The correct structure is: [will + is]

Hope it helps.
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New post 21 Jan 2016, 19:39
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2
A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into northern Minnesota would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than one wolf for every 39 square miles.

A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than
B) would fail provided the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more than
C) should fail if the timber wolf density in that region was greater than
D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than
E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region were more numerous than

This belongs to the first category conditional, where you use a present tense in the 'if' clause and a simple present or a simple future in the ‘then’ clause. We can conveniently ignore A, B and C for using the modal verb ' would ' and 'should'. Between D and E, we can eliminate E for using a countable ‘more numerous’ rather than the ‘greater’ for an obvious mass noun namely ‘density’
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New post Updated on: 09 May 2018, 10:26
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BukrsGmat wrote:
A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into northern Minnesota would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than one wolf for every 39 square miles.

(A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than
(B) would fail provided the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more than
(C) should fail if the timber wolf density in that region was greater than
(D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than
(E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region were more numerous than


For conditional (if X then Y) questions, you need to have corresponding tenses, depending on whether you have a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd conditional.
1st conditional: If X happens, then Y will happen
2nd conditional: If X happened, then Y would happen
3rd conditional: If X had happened, then Y would have happened


A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than
(the verb tenses here do not match any of the above structures)
ELIMINATE

B) would fail provided the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more than
(the verb tenses here do not match any of the above structures)
ELIMINATE

C) shuld fail if the timber wolf density in that region was greater than
"Should" changes the meaning.
ELIMINATE

D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than
(the verb tenses here match the structure of a 1st conditional)
KEEP!

E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region were more numerous than
(the verb tenses here do not match any of the above structures)
ELIMINATE


Answer: D

Cheers,
Brent
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Originally posted by GMATPrepNow on 13 Mar 2018, 11:39.
Last edited by GMATPrepNow on 09 May 2018, 10:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into  [#permalink]

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New post 09 May 2018, 10:15
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D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than
(the verb tenses here match the structure of a 2nd conditional)
Did you mean, 1st conditional?

GMATPrepNow wrote:
BukrsGmat wrote:
A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into northern Minnesota would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than one wolf for every 39 square miles.

(A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than
(B) would fail provided the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more than
(C) should fail if the timber wolf density in that region was greater than
(D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than
(E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region were more numerous than


For conditional (if X then Y) questions, you need to have corresponding tenses, depending on whether you have a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd conditional.
1st conditional: If X happens, then Y will happen
2nd conditional: If X happened, then Y would happen
3rd conditional: If X had happened, then Y would have happened


A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than
(the verb tenses here do not match any of the above structures)
ELIMINATE

B) would fail provided the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more than
(the verb tenses here do not match any of the above structures)
ELIMINATE

C) shuld fail if the timber wolf density in that region was greater than
"Should" changes the meaning.
ELIMINATE

D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than
(the verb tenses here match the structure of a 2nd conditional)
Did you mean, 1st conditional?
KEEP!

E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region were more numerous than
(the verb tenses here do not match any of the above structures)
ELIMINATE


Answer: D

Cheers,
Brent

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Re: A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into  [#permalink]

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New post 09 May 2018, 10:25
Please clarify more. First conditional specifies that there is no uncertainty. But the sentence says, "... Predicts....",which shows uncertainty. Will that not be a contradiction?

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Re: A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into  [#permalink]

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New post 09 May 2018, 10:28
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gmatbusters wrote:
D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than
(the verb tenses here match the structure of a 2nd conditional)
Did you mean, 1st conditional?


Good catch!
Yes, I meant 1st conditional.
I've edited my response accordingly.

Cheers,
Brent
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Re: A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into &nbs [#permalink] 09 May 2018, 10:28

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