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Sub 505 Level|   Clauses|   Subjunctive|                     
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into 09 May 2018, 11:32
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Priyankaagarwalcv
Please clarify more. First conditional specifies that there is no uncertainty. But the sentence says, "... Predicts....",which shows uncertainty. Will that not be a contradiction?
Sent from my Redmi 3S using GMAT Club Forum mobile app
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Good question!
I'd argue that certainty can exist within a prediction.
For example: I predict that, if you score 800 on the GMAT, you will be pleased.

That said, when it comes to Sentence Correction involving conditional statements, it's much more important to look for parallel structure.

Cheers,
Brent
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into 09 Dec 2018, 19:18
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If..then constructions have strict verb tense rules as follows:

1. If Simple Present Then Simple Present or Simple Future

2. If Simple Past Then Simple PAST or WOULD VERB

3. If Past Perfect then WOULD HAVE <Verb>
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into 19 Dec 2018, 05:09
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. A) more numerous is not idiomatic
B) changes the meaning of the sentence.
C) 'was' is the wrong tense
D) Correct tenses
E) More numerous is not idiomatic. Hence (d).
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into 26 Jan 2019, 12:49
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Could someone explain the split between If/IS and If/were

I read that when you have a conditional, you always use WERE. When is this a rule and when is it not?

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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into 04 Feb 2019, 09:22
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kchen1994
Could someone explain the split between If/IS and If/were

I read that when you have a conditional, you always use WERE. When is this a rule and when is it not?

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The basic rule:
There are 2 ways to indicate a conditional situation.

"Were the piano out of tune, I would pay to have it tuned." (O)
"If the piano is out of tune, I will pay to have it tuned." (O)

So you use If/will or Were/would for conditionals.

But you never mix these two.
"If the piano is out of tune, I would pay to have it tuned." (X)
"Were the piano out of tune, I will pay to have it tuned." (X)


Rare Case:
If a given sentence is clear that it has subjunctive/conditional statement, you can use if/were as clauses.
The famous Johnny Cash's lyric from <If I were a Carpenter> runs like this:
If I were a carpenter, and you were a lady, would you marry me anyway?


So wrapping up,
use if/is for definitive conditional, if/were for purely speculative conditional.

Refer to page 269 of OG 2019 Verbal Review for further reference under Conditionals and subjunctives section.
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into 06 Feb 2019, 14:23
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kchen1994
Could someone explain the split between If/IS and If/were

I read that when you have a conditional, you always use WERE. When is this a rule and when is it not?

GMATNinja
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The rules for if/then constructions are pretty straightforward. The verb tense in the "if" clause will dictate the verb tense of the "then" clause. As dcummins noted, there are three scenarios we might encounter.

    1) Present tense in the "if" clause: "If my daughter forgets to eat, she will scream at me for several hours in the middle of the night." "Forgets" is present tense, so the verb in the "then" clause will be future tense.

    2) Past tense in the "if" clause: "If my daughter forgot to eat, she would scream at me for several hours in the middle of the night." "Forgot" is past tense, so the verb in the "then" clause takes "would." (Think of "would" as speaking about the future from the perspective of the past.)

    3) Past perfect tense in the "if" clause: If my daughter had forgotten to eat, she would have screamed at me for several hours in the middle of the night." "Had forgotten" is past perfect, so the "then" takes requires "would have."

Back to the original sentence:

    "A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into northern Minnesota will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than one wolf for every 39 square miles."

Because the verb in the "if" clause is the present tense "is," the verb tense in the "then" clause takes the future tense "will," so this is an instance of scenario 1 above. It's a little bit harder to recognize because we're accustomed to seeing the "if" clause first, but in this sentence, the order is flipped. However, the logic would be exactly the same if we'd been given: "If the density of the timber population in that region is greater than one wolf for every 39 square miles, the reintroduction of caribou into northern Minnesota will fail."

I hope that helps!
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into 07 Feb 2019, 15:47
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GMATNinja

The rules for if/then constructions are pretty straightforward. The verb tense in the "if" clause will dictate the verb tense of the "then" clause. As dcummins noted, there are three scenarios we might encounter.

    1) Present tense in the "if" clause: "If my daughter forgets to eat, she will scream at me for several hours in the middle of the night." "Forgets" is present tense, so the verb in the "then" clause will be future tense.

    2) Past tense in the "if" clause: "If my daughter forgot to eat, she would scream at me for several hours in the middle of the night." "Forgot" is past tense, so the verb in the "then" clause takes "would." (Think of "would" as speaking about the future from the perspective of the past.)

    3) Past perfect tense in the "if" clause: If my daughter had forgotten to eat, she would have screamed at me for several hours in the middle of the night." "Had forgotten" is past perfect, so the "then" takes requires "would have."

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Hi GMATNinja & GMATPrepNow

I would argue that there is much complicated rules than presented above. I saw in many grammar books (not intended for GMAT study but I love English grammar for myself). I found an example here:

https://www.ego4u.com/en/cram-up/gramma ... exceptions
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into 08 Feb 2019, 18:42
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into northern Minnesota would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than one wolf for every 39 square miles.


(A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than

(B) would fail provided the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more than

(C) should fail if the timber wolf density in that region was greater than

(D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than

(E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region were more numerous than

The answer is D. Support the second approach.
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into 16 Oct 2019, 21:04
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daagh
1. When the main clause is in present tense, it is grammatically wrong to use the past tense in the sub-clause. Hence would is incorrect in such situations and would is acceptable only in reported texts.

2. The word ‘would’ is sometimes used in subjunctive mood, where there is an element of speculation in the context. However, in the given example, there is no such speculation; It is a categorical ‘if --- then’ structure. Hence normal rules of the conditional sentences apply in the given case; In conditional sentences, while the subordinate conditional clause will be in simple present, the main clause will be in either simple present or simple future

3. Between D and E, let us simply ignore E for using the inappropriate ‘more numerous’ as if density is a countable noun.
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The author is predicting, which means can be true or false . Isnt that somewhat speculative and not definitive .
In such case why will triumphs would .
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into 25 Jul 2020, 08:43
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Will vs would
Will wins as the verb used in the first part of the sentence is predicts which is in present tense.
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into 31 Jan 2021, 04:58
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Prediction is conditional is nature, although we are using "will" in this sentence?
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into northern Minnesota would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than one wolf for every 39 square miles.


(A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than X

It's nonsense to say that the 'density of the timber wolf population' is more numerous than...

(B) would fail provided the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more than X

"would fail provided" is not particularly stylistic

(C) should fail if the timber wolf density in that region was greater than X

The normative 'should' is wrong. Importantly, the past tense 'was greater than' is wrong

(D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than CORRECT

(E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region were more numerous than X

There's no such thing as a 'timber wolf density'
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into 06 Sep 2021, 07:42
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into northern Minnesota would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than one wolf for every 39 square miles.


(A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than
We cannot use present tense in the “if” clause and “would” (the past form of “will”) in the effect clause. Eliminate

(B) would fail provided the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more than
Same as A. Eliminate

(C) should fail if the timber wolf density in that region was greater than
The use of “should” distorts the meaning of the sentence. Eliminate

(D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than
Correct.

(E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region were more numerous than
We cannot use past tense in the “if” clause and “will” in the effect clause. Eliminate.
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into 08 Sep 2021, 14:18
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Hi, i am a non-native speaker of English which is why i do not use 'idiomatic phrases' as a definitive tool to eliminate answer choices right away. So this is how i approached this question:

1. what jumped me off was the use of "numerous" to compare density (uncountable)- "density of ...more numerous than"- so choices (A) and (E) are out.

2.(C) doesn't make sense logically-"Expert predicts (at present) that something should fail (in the future) if .. density was greater" ( density was greater in the past ???)

3. Between choices (B) and (D), first off, we do not know the level of certainty with which the expert makes the prediction, therefore, it's not about 'will vs. would'- could be either as long as the meaning is not distorted. Ultimately, it was "greater than vs. more than" and i picked the wrong answer.

What went wrong /missing in my reasoning? GMATNinja
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into northern Minnesota would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than one wolf for every 39 square miles.

Test Point: Conditional Tense

(A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than ("predicts" is a present tense, "will" should be used)

(B) would fail provided the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more than (Same as A)

(C) should fail if the timber wolf density in that region was greater than (Same as A)

(D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than

(E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region were more numerous than (" the density were more numerous than...” is not idiomatic)
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into 17 Sep 2021, 09:12
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godswildchild
Hi, i am a non-native speaker of English which is why i do not use 'idiomatic phrases' as a definitive tool to eliminate answer choices right away. So this is how i approached this question:

1. what jumped me off was the use of "numerous" to compare density (uncountable)- "density of ...more numerous than"- so choices (A) and (E) are out.

2.(C) doesn't make sense logically-"Expert predicts (at present) that something should fail (in the future) if .. density was greater" ( density was greater in the past ???)

3. Between choices (B) and (D), first off, we do not know the level of certainty with which the expert makes the prediction, therefore, it's not about 'will vs. would'- could be either as long as the meaning is not distorted. Ultimately, it was "greater than vs. more than" and i picked the wrong answer.

What went wrong /missing in my reasoning? GMATNinja
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Your first two points are spot-on. It's #3 that got you. :)

Check out our post here about when it's appropriate to use "would" and when it's appropriate to use "will," and let us know if you still have questions.
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into 17 Sep 2021, 09:52
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into northern Minnesota would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than one wolf for every 39 square miles.
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(A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than
more numerous is wordy and akward therefore out

(B) would fail provided the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more than
if conditional better conveys the answer therefore out

(C) should fail if the timber wolf density in that region was greater than
Prediction should not be a command therefore out

(D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than
The tense and meaning is spot on therefore our answer

(E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region were more numerous than
were isn't the right tense and more numerous is wordy and akward therefore out

Therefore IMO D
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A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into 12 Dec 2024, 03:10
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