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Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to

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Re: Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Apr 2016, 04:55
sukanyar wrote:
KyleWiddison wrote:
I agree with the post above. We would see 'that of' in that type of construction.

Kyle, what would "that" refer to in that case?


The pronoun "that" would refer to "rate".

Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to that (the rate) of the United States, their death rates from heart disease are far lower in France.
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New post 21 Apr 2016, 05:23
sayantanc2k wrote:
The pronoun "that" would refer to "rate".

Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to that (the rate) of the United States, their death rates from heart disease are far lower in France.

Thanks sayantanc2k for your reply. So, "the rate of the United States" seems unclear to me. I mean, is that valid? Do countries have a "rate" :lol: ?
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Re: Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Apr 2016, 05:36
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sukanyar wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
The pronoun "that" would refer to "rate".

Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to that (the rate) of the United States, their death rates from heart disease are far lower in France.

Thanks sayantanc2k for your reply. So, "the rate of the United States" seems unclear to me. I mean, is that valid? Do countries have a "rate" :lol: ?


You are correct, we cannot miss out certain words because it makes the sentence illogical in comparison..
the correct sentence could be
Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to that (the rate) of the people in the United States, their death rates from heart disease are far lower in France.[/quote]
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Re: Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Apr 2016, 11:36
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sukanyar wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
The pronoun "that" would refer to "rate".

Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to that (the rate) of the United States, their death rates from heart disease are far lower in France.

Thanks sayantanc2k for your reply. So, "the rate of the United States" seems unclear to me. I mean, is that valid? Do countries have a "rate" :lol: ?


Your observation is correct. As chetan2u rightly explained, the preposition should be "in" (to be parallel with "in France"), not "of". I missed out on that. :)
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New post 21 Apr 2016, 21:10
sayantanc2k wrote:
Your observation is correct. As chetan2u rightly explained, the preposition should be "in" (to be parallel with "in France"), not "of". I missed out on that. :)

But even with "in", how do we know what "rate" is being talked about?
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New post 21 Apr 2016, 21:19
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sukanyar wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
Your observation is correct. As chetan2u rightly explained, the preposition should be "in" (to be parallel with "in France"), not "of". I missed out on that. :)

But even with "in", how do we know what "rate" is being talked about?


Hi,
we have just spoken of ONLY one kind of rate in the entire sentence, so the rate would logically refer back to its earlier antecedents and also usage of "comparable to" refers to the previous RATE being talked about..
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Re: Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Apr 2016, 15:30
sukanyar wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
The pronoun "that" would refer to "rate".

Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to that (the rate) of the United States, their death rates from heart disease are far lower in France.

Thanks sayantanc2k for your reply. So, "the rate of the United States" seems unclear to me. I mean, is that valid? Do countries have a "rate" :lol: ?


Responding to a PM here.

"That" as a pronoun can serve as a "new copy" of a previously mentioned noun. In this case, we are trying to compare the separate rates - France's (death) rate and the United States' (death) rate. The rates are separate, but we don't want to repeat the use of rate so we use "that" to represent the US' rate.

Here is another example:
The money spent on food for three days at Disneyland is slightly less than THAT spent for an entire month at home (but only slightly).

Here "that" is referring to a different pile of money spent on food for a month, but it is still money so using "that" is appropriate.

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[Yes, I did just make a trip to Disneyland :) ]
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Re: Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Apr 2016, 21:11
KyleWiddison wrote:
"That" as a pronoun can serve as a "new copy" of a previously mentioned noun. In this case, we are trying to compare the separate rates - France's (death) rate and the United States' (death) rate. The rates are separate, but we don't want to repeat the use of rate so we use "that" to represent the US' rate.

Thanks for responding to the PM Kyle, this might be a typo, because the sentence does not seem to be comparing death rate, but rate at which fatty foods are consumed.
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Re: Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Apr 2016, 00:28
There are actually two sets of rates that are involved. You are correct that ultimately we are comparing the death rates but the rates of consumption are included to compare how those rates impact the death rates. It may be a bit tricky to keep straight, but including two sets of rates in the sentence is totally legimate.
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New post 29 Apr 2016, 01:24
KyleWiddison wrote:
the rates of consumption are included to compare how those rates impact the death rates.

Thanks Kyle. That's what is confusing me. There is no mention of "rate of consumption" in the sentence and so, the following sentence would be incorrect:

Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to that of the United States, their death rates from heart disease are far lower in France.

that is meant to refer to "rate of consumption of fatty foods", but this is not present in the sentence From my class, I was told that the noun must be present in the sentence in the same form (though I might have mis-interpreted or mis-understood the instructor).
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New post 29 Apr 2016, 18:07
The pronoun "that" is more flexible and can be used to represent an idea / phrase. Take for example this other GMAT question: lacking-information-about-energy-use-people-tend-to-81026.html. "That" can be used to represent "the amount of energy used" but "it" cannot because "it" must have a noun it replaces.

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New post 29 Apr 2016, 18:55
Hello Kyle, in the example you have stated, "the amount of energy used" is present in the sentence.

However, in this example, "rate of consumption of fatty foods" is "not" present in the sentence. So, if you can give an example where "that" is referring to something that is not present in the sentence, it would help me clear this doubt.
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Re: Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to  [#permalink]

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New post 13 May 2016, 11:15
sukanyar wrote:
Hello Kyle, in the example you have stated, "the amount of energy used" is present in the sentence.

However, in this example, "rate of consumption of fatty foods" is "not" present in the sentence. So, if you can give an example where "that" is referring to something that is not present in the sentence, it would help me clear this doubt.


Could you please elaborate your query? There is no "that"(creating a new copy) in the correct option.
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New post 17 May 2016, 05:59
sayantanc2k wrote:
Could you please elaborate your query? There is no "that"(creating a new copy) in the correct option.

Hi sayantanc2k, thanks for your help. if you scroll few posts up, experts have said that the following "modified" sentence would be correct:

Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to that in the United States, their death rates from heart disease are far lower in France.

My question is: In the above sentence, what would "that" refer to? I don't think "that" can just refer to "rate", because then it will not be clear "rate of what?".
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Re: Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to  [#permalink]

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New post 18 May 2016, 08:34
sukanyar wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
Could you please elaborate your query? There is no "that"(creating a new copy) in the correct option.

Hi sayantanc2k, thanks for your help. if you scroll few posts up, experts have said that the following "modified" sentence would be correct:

Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to that in the United States, their death rates from heart disease are far lower in France.

My question is: In the above sentence, what would "that" refer to? I don't think "that" can just refer to "rate", because then it will not be clear "rate of what?".


Still I am not clear where exactly lies your doubt. Reading the posts it appears that you have already understood that "that" refers to "rate"... that's absolutely correct - but somehow you do not agree that "that" can JUST refer to "rate". Also it is very evident from the first part of the sentence that the "rate" refers to the consumption of fatty foods : "people in France consume fatty foods at a rate". Then why are you still not convinced that "that" is referring to the "rate" at which people consume food?
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New post 18 May 2016, 10:52
sayantanc2k wrote:
it is very evident from the first part of the sentence that the "rate" refers to the consumption of fatty foods : "people in France consume fatty foods at a rate". Then why are you still not convinced that "that" is referring to the "rate" at which people consume food?

Hi sayantanc2k, this is exactly my doubt. Ideally, "that" should be referring to "rate of consumption of fatty foods" (and not just to "rate" because then it would not be clear "rate of what??).

However, this noun phrase "rate of consumption of fatty foods" is not present in the sentence. So, how can "that" refer to a Noun phrase that is not even present in the sentence? I remember it was told in the class that the noun must be present in the sentence in the same form. But may be I did not understand the instructor correctly, hence wanted to clarify.
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Re: Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to  [#permalink]

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New post 21 May 2016, 04:45
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sukanyar wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
it is very evident from the first part of the sentence that the "rate" refers to the consumption of fatty foods : "people in France consume fatty foods at a rate". Then why are you still not convinced that "that" is referring to the "rate" at which people consume food?

Hi sayantanc2k, this is exactly my doubt. Ideally, "that" should be referring to "rate of consumption of fatty foods" (and not just to "rate" because then it would not be clear "rate of what??).

However, this noun phrase "rate of consumption of fatty foods" is not present in the sentence. So, how can "that" refer to a Noun phrase that is not even present in the sentence? I remember it was told in the class that the noun must be present in the sentence in the same form. But may be I did not understand the instructor correctly, hence wanted to clarify.


No Sukanya, the pronoun "that" refers to a noun, not a noun phrase as a whole. The pronoun "that" creates a new copy of a previous noun ("rate") in the sentence. Hence presence of "rate" is good enough, as long as it is clear from the context which rate is referred to.
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Re: Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to  [#permalink]

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New post 21 May 2016, 08:28
Indeed sykanyar, as sayantanc2k has pointed out, that will clearly an unambiguously refer to rate in this sentence.
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Re: Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Dec 2016, 21:01
Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to the United States, their death rates from heart disease are far lower in France.

A. Same
The point of comparison is 'rate' and thus the United States must be turned to possessive.
B. people in France and the United States consume fatty foods at about the same rate, the
C. fatty foods are consumed by people in France at a comparable rate to the United States's, their
Logically, 'their' must refer to people in France but grammatically it has two possible antecedents - fatty foods and people in France. Thus, the pronoun is ambiguous.
D. the rate of fatty foods consumed in France and the United States is about the same, the
In this option, 'the rate of' refers to the price of the fatty foods and that is out of context.
E. the rate of people consuming fatty foods is about the same in France and the United States, the
'the rate of people' appears to be troublesome to me. Moreover, since we the sentence is trying to establish a contrast on a comparison, I believe a better structure would be - ...fatty foods is about the same in France as in the US

Left with B.
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