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Good points Ian

I am surprised that the 'copyright violation' aspect of the ST case does not get much attention on this forum, because we, the gmatclubbers, could be breaking the law the same way ST people did in regard to copyrights.

But, in college for example you are allowed to quote stuff from books, that is not copyright violation, so I assume we are fine here on gmatclub because we are basically quoting just some small part of a book (the same way we used quotes in school papers).

.... just my 2 cents

IanStewart
A few points here. Let me first stress that I am not a lawyer, and the below is non-expert speculation on the issues:
......

Finally, GMAC is a non-profit, not a business.
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IanStewart
I'd wonder whether one could make a case that the reproduction of occasional questions constitutes 'fair use'. Under US copyright law (as quoted in wikipedia), "the fair use of a copyrighted work [...] for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright."

Thanks for that. Very wise law :)
+1

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Finally, GMAC is a non-profit, not a business.
It is interesting how it works and who are owners. Especially, how is GMAC related to B-schools.
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I was wondering about fair use... good post.

edit: For those curious...

https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107

Looks like scoretop was in trouble on items 1,3,4 -- and maybe 2 (thought thats some pretty unclear verbiage if you ask me)
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rhyme
I was wondering about fair use... good post.

edit: For those curious...

https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107

Looks like scoretop was in trouble on items 1,3,4 -- and maybe 2 (thought thats some pretty unclear verbiage if you ask me)

rhyme,

As any good reporter would, you've given us the info, but no opinion. Care to share your thoughts?
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rhyme
I was wondering about fair use... good post.

edit: For those curious...

https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107

Looks like scoretop was in trouble on items 1,3,4 -- and maybe 2 (thought thats some pretty unclear verbiage if you ask me)

rhyme,

As any good reporter would, you've given us the info, but no opinion. Care to share your thoughts?

I'm no lawyer... and the previous poster did a good job I think.... Not sure I have much to add honestly. To me, it looks like the occasional post of a question from the OG or similar would constitute fair use, provided its primary intention was educational and that the site didn't benefit monetarily from the post, and provided that it didn't materially affect GMAC's ability to charge fees for their content.

Unlike this site and others, scoretop's intention was commercial and for profit (issue #1), they copied substantial portions of entire material - in some cases offering up digital copies of the entire official guides (issue #3) - and certainly, their ongoing attempts to subvert the security of the exam would materially negatively impact the value of GMAC's copyrighted work (issue #4). (That is, if the test is compromised, then GMAC is out of business). If I had to guess, I would say its really this last issue that brought on the wrath of GMAC.
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rhyme,

Errrr, I meant scoretop, the cheating scandal, and what should happen to the cheaters/maybe cheaters, not the copyright issue. For me, the copyright thing is mostly a non-issue.
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You know what else is fun?

Finding people who are covering their tracks.

Check this out.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&c ... AUySOYY4gw

See scoretop anywhere on there?

Nope? Guess what, as of June 18, 2008 it was...

https://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:Uw ... cd=1&gl=us

Or here's a beauty:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&c ... PV6bjjSukg

G the blogs been removed?

Why might that be......

https://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:P4 ... cd=4&gl=us

in there you find: "A month before the test, I joined the JJ section of https://www.scoretop.com . The questions provided here are very useful and help you gauge the GMAT questions. Must use. Highly recommended"

How long ago was that there? As recently as June 15th, 2008.
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rhyme,

Errrr, I meant scoretop, the cheating scandal, and what should happen to the cheaters/maybe cheaters, not the copyright issue. For me, the copyright thing is mostly a non-issue.

Well, everyone has their own view. I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt. So, personally, those that clearly either

a) posted that they benefited (eg statements like "Yea! I saw 10 JJs! Awesome! I finished 20 minutes early!")

and/or

b) posted questions from their own exam

Should have their scores revoked and should be summarily expelled from whatever institution they are at. If they have graduated, their degrees should be revoked. Everyone else, I say give em the benefit of the doubt.

By "clearly" I mean people that you can all but conclusively identify. For instance, someone with the name Bobby Dumbass uses his credit card to buy access for an account named Dumbass928. You know thats a real name because the guy used his credit card. Two months later, Dumbass928 posts his score and breakdown all the while screaming about how great JJs are and how he saw so many of them, and GMAT verifies that someone by the name of Bobby Dumbass did in fact take the test around the time of that post and scored the same as that individual both in breakdown and total. In those cases, I think its pretty darn clear.
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Excellent sleuthing, Rhyme. If only GMAC would go after the individuals...

I get the feeling that the people involved are going to be swept under the rug.
- tsd
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TimeSquareDesi

I get the feeling that the people involved are going to be swept under the rug.
- tsd

Indeed, I think so as well.
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people think that will make any difference now? they have been investigating this for a couple of years, so I am sure they found those websites. I found some blogs with a simple google search a few days ago of people talking about JJ's etc.
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Did your classmate cover his tracks as well rhyme? :)

rhyme
You know what else is fun?

Finding people who are covering their tracks.

Check this out.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&c ... AUySOYY4gw

See scoretop anywhere on there?

Nope? Guess what, as of June 18, 2008 it was...

https://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:Uw ... cd=1&gl=us

Or here's a beauty:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&c ... PV6bjjSukg

G the blogs been removed?

Why might that be......

https://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:P4 ... cd=4&gl=us

in there you find: "A month before the test, I joined the JJ section of https://www.scoretop.com . The questions provided here are very useful and help you gauge the GMAT questions. Must use. Highly recommended"

How long ago was that there? As recently as June 15th, 2008.
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rhyme
TimeSquareDesi

I get the feeling that the people involved are going to be swept under the rug.
- tsd

Indeed, I think so as well.

Hey! I predicted that on page 3!!!!

Anyway, gmac says they'll go after the people who posted the questions first. Well, the problem is, that the majority of the JJ questions probably came from China, where these institutions pay people, whether it be regular Joe Schmoe's or gmat instructors to take the test frequently "to bring back" the questions.

Canceling their gmat scores has no effect on them.
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sigh, it saddens me to see such blatant admission of using the JJ's on those blogs. :( Those people definitely need to be punished.

Good work rhyme, as always. :)
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