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Another Cheating Scandal

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New post 09 Jul 2008, 07:19
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New post 09 Jul 2008, 13:07
The letter says that you are not allowed to discuss the letter?
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New post 09 Jul 2008, 13:08
1
Tarmac wrote:
The letter says that you are not allowed to discuss the letter?


The first rule of reading the letter is that you are not to discuss the letter. The second rule of reading the letter is...
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New post 09 Jul 2008, 13:42
sam77sam7 wrote:
Tarmac wrote:
The letter says that you are not allowed to discuss the letter?


The first rule of reading the letter is that you are not to discuss the letter. The second rule of reading the letter is...


hahahaha

well played. +1
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New post 09 Jul 2008, 15:08
kidderek wrote:
sam77sam7 wrote:
Tarmac wrote:
The letter says that you are not allowed to discuss the letter?


The first rule of reading the letter is that you are not to discuss the letter. The second rule of reading the letter is...


hahahaha

well played. +1


Indeed! I though the same thing. Anyhow, I say let em fry :-D

+1 for that!
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New post 09 Jul 2008, 22:55
sam77sam7 wrote:
Tarmac wrote:
The letter says that you are not allowed to discuss the letter?


The first rule of reading the letter is that you are not to discuss the letter. The second rule of reading the letter is...


intrestingly, the letter i received does not have a para in end that says dont discuss etc etc like some other users said..it only says "from graduate mgmt adm council" and has no signature.. did they send different letter to people? or is mine a fake? i dont know...but my email does not have any such "do not share" clause at all...
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New post 19 Jul 2008, 13:36
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New post 19 Jul 2008, 16:32
Assuming I'm back from my meeting by then....I'm going in with this:

"Given the astounding ease with which I have been able to identify so many of the individuals in the case exhibits, I can't help but wonder if GMAC's primary goal here is simply fear mongering, particularly given that your failure to identify any of the individuals materially detracted from your case. To put it differently, it would appear your bark is worse than your bite. Why were these individuals not pursued or identified as part of the case against scoretop?"
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New post 22 Jul 2008, 13:26
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New post 22 Jul 2008, 13:46
Yup, because imposter test-takers were the problem, not the JJs.
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New post 22 Jul 2008, 13:51
This is my picture. No one took the GMAT for me!
Image

I can see why people would do it. $3k to have someone else take the test, or $7k to someone like Berry and kill yourself for months? Easy way out.

Since they take our pictures for the GMAT, why don't they send a picture of us with our score report to the schools. Then the schools can see if the person that shows up to attend school looks like the person that sat for the GMAT.
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New post 22 Jul 2008, 19:05
1
Dr phil, is that you?

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New post Updated on: 23 Jul 2008, 11:00
There was a live chat on Business Week reg scoretop .
( Apologize if the post is too long, ive tried to capture the essence of the chat by posting different queries that are being asked )

Attached is the edited transcript of the conversation with a few sample queries, that will clarify the action GMAT plans to take up against scoretop users.

FrancescaBW: Welcome to today's chat. In addition to being the community manager and a reporter for the B-schools channel, I'm also your moderator for today's event. I'd like to welcome our guest Peg Jöbst, senior vice president of GMAC. She'll take your questions on the GMAT cheating scandal.
FrancescaBW: Peg, I thought you could first give us a brief overview of what has happened and the role GMAC is playing in this cheating scandal.

GMACPegJ: Certainly, Francesca. The Graduate Management Admission Council® was awarded a $2.35 million judgment by the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia in a copyright infringement case against the operator of Scoretop.com, a U.S.-based Web site that sold access to questions used on the GMAT® exam. GMAC® seized the site’s domain name June 20, shut down the site, and obtained a hard drive containing subscriber information.

GMACPegJ: GMAC goes after those who try to cheat on the GMAT exam because the Council has an ethical responsibility to business schools and students to protect the integrity of the application process. GMAC sued Lei Shi and others who operated Scoretop.com, a Web site that offered forums where visitors could share information about the GMAT. The site promoted VIP memberships—$30 for 30 days of access—in which users were encouraged to read and post “JJs,” or live GMAT questions. “JJ” stands for “jungle juice,” or “jijings”—slang words for “the real thing.” The Council's investigation of the Web site revealed that some of the JJs contained real GMAT items.

FrancescaBW: Now what can subscribers and users of Scoretop expect to happen next?

GMACPegJ: GMAC is limiting its investigation to those individuals who
GMACPegJ: a) those who posted GMAT questions they saw on their GMAT exam, and
GMACPegJ: b) those individuals who posted a message on Scoretop confirming that they saw items from the Scoretop website on their GMAT exam.
GMACPegJ: In these instances, GMAC will cancel GMAT scores and notify schools to which those scores were sent.

FrancescaBW: Thanks, Peg. You can start answering the reader questions, which I've sent through now.

saurabh_iiita: i have registered as VIP member but never used or seen live questions etc..what are the implications for me?
GMACPegJ: Based on what you have described, you would not fall into the category of those individuals we are investigating.

Jamezz: If a student plans to buy GMAT material or subscribe to a tutoring service, is there a way to get full confidence that the material is 100% ethical? Is GMAC going to help students in doubt? and how?
GMACPegJ: The Graduate Management Admission Council (GMAC®) does not endorse any specific Web sites or study materials for use in preparation for the GMAT, other than those operated directly by GMAC. GMATPrep software available through the mba.com site simulates the exam with retired questions, free of charge.
GMACPegJ: However, you can follow some general guidelines to help you avoid violating copyright law or GMAC® Policies and Procedures.
• Do not purchase, request, or share materials that claim to be “real” or “live” GMAT® questions in any form.In addition, be wary if you see discussion threads in which test content is shared and real or “live” questions are confirmed as accessible via the site or any participant(s) of the site (online or offline).
• Do not share any test content with anyone else after you have taken the test.

Ralph4000: If a candidate were found to fit into one of those categories and the score was cancelled, would the student or prospective student be allowed to retake the gmat?
GMACPegJ: Not likely.


sarithababu: Do you have any comments about Pre-9/2006 version of the site and its users vs post 9/2006?
GMACPegJ: Our investigation criteria is not tied to versions of the site.

sarithababu: I got that dreaded email. I was a VIP member. I discussed a few SET questions with no knowledge (still) of whether I am in violation. I am starting school this fall. Have left my job and planned out my move. Should I put everything on hold and wait for your verdict on my case? Or go through the ordeals hoping GMAC will clear my name. In a way it is none of GMACs business but this is what is on the minds of numerous students caught up in this mess so if ou can humanely provide response to this, it will be truly appreciated.
GMACPegJ: GMAC is limiting its investigation to those individuals who
GMACPegJ: a) posted GMAT questions they saw on their GMAT exam, and
GMACPegJ: b) posted a message on Scoretop confirming that they saw items from the Scoretop website on their GMAT exam.
GMACPegJ: We realize candidates take the process of admissions and preparation for the GMAT very seriously. It is hard work. If you are convinced that you do not fall into the above described categories, you should proceed with your plans.

krajendr: Dear GMAC, I used scoretop VIP subscription but I never gave or obtained any real GMAT live questions. Since I got a non-satisfactory score on my 1st attempt, I am planning to take GMAT again? Can you please let me know if this is feasible?
GMACPegJ: At this point, you should proceed with your plans to retake the GMAT.


dj6501: Hi Peg, Would a student be given a chance to explain their situation to GMAC before their scores are cancelled and reported to the school?
GMACPegJ: Test takers have a right to appeal any decision GMAC makes. Test takers will be notified in writing if GMAC is taking action and will have a period of time to appeal the decision.

zurich: Is there any contact person at gmac to ask about the particular case? I mean about the investigation regarding specific user of ST?
GMACPegJ: A notification of GMAC decision to cancel a score will include contact information.


dj6501: As per previous reports in BW around 6000+ VIP members were identified. Out of this, scores of approximately how many students could be cancelled?
GMACPegJ: Until our investigation is complete it is too soon to speculate on number of scores affected. We take the cancellation of test taker scores very seriously.

Rohit_b_20032003: I have a question related to the integrity of the GMAT exam. As I read the Court's Judgement, I understand that GMAC could not prove truly that SCORETOP truly threatened the sanctitty of exam. For example Court says that Plaintiff filed its complaints nearly nine months after FBI?s criminal investigation became public. That delay undercuts plaintiffs argument that the defendant posses an imminent threat to the integrity of the GMAT exam?. So, shall we assume that GMAC itself was slow in taking actiong against Scoretop? I may be wrong. You may clarify
GMACPegJ: GMAC worked with the FBI for several years documenting the evidence necessary to take action. During that time, Lei Shi was warned repeatedly to stop posting live questions to the site. Ultimately, while the FBI continues its investigation, GMAC decided to try to shut down the site via a civil suit, which was filed in June 2007. GMAC announced the ruling on June 20, 2008, as soon as it gained control of the Scoretop.com domain and hard drive.

fundoo_pc: Are you going to inform the people who do not fall in the criteria you mentioned above that they are no longer being investigated?
GMACPegJ: Once we have completed our investigation and taken action against those individuals who violated GMAT policy as described earlier, we will post a notification on mba.com that our investigation is complete.

Hunt5man: As someone who did my MBA a while back, I want to commend GMAC for taking action on Scoretop. However, I'm told that there still exist several websites operating in non-English languages (Chinese, Korean etc.) where real GMAT questions are being discussed even today. What does GMAC plan to do about them?
GMACPegJ: GMAC continues to monitor sites for possible violations of its intellectual property and will continue to investigate all Web sites that claim to post GMAT questions.

chat_usa_co: Is the criteria for exclusion from your investigation final or are there chances that GMAC may come back and open the investigation for all the 6000 members at a later date ?
GMACPegJ: That is extremely unlikely.


333222111: how will GMAC be able to prove that only one person under a certain VIP screen name logged into scoretop? There could be several people logging in and sharing the subscrition under the same screen name although there was only one person who paid for the subscription? How about paying with a credit card for someone else? Wouldn't these issues make cancelling someone's score unethical?
GMACPegJ: I have described our criteria for investigation. We have the hard drive from Scoretop and a strong and highly qualified forensic team of experts conducting our investigation.
GMACPegJ: We have an ethical responsibility to schools and test takers to investigate those individuals who threaten the integrity of the GMAT and the application process.

Originally posted by bhatiagp on 23 Jul 2008, 10:26.
Last edited by bhatiagp on 23 Jul 2008, 11:00, edited 3 times in total.
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New post 23 Jul 2008, 10:52
She seems to just keep restating the criteria for with which people will be banned.... not to much new here.

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New post 23 Jul 2008, 11:03
I'd like to know about the percentiles. It appears that the scores required to get a certain percentile have gone up. What used to be a 720 is now a 710, etc. Will GMAC re-evaluate the past scores once these cancelled scores are taken out of the pool?
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New post 23 Jul 2008, 11:08
sam77sam7 wrote:
She seems to just keep restating the criteria for with which people will be banned.... not to much new here.

~Sam


Ya. But apparently the people in the chat were having a hard time understanding that.

GMAC Rep: "We're only investigating people that posted actual questions and people that said they saw questions on their GMAT that they saw previously on the site"

A bit slow/ultra-paranoid Prospective Applicant: "I didn't post any actual questions or post that I recognized questions. Am I being investigated?"

GMAC Rep: "I'm going to be polite and pretend like you you didn't completely ignore my fist comment..."

I can understand why these people are so worried, but seriously?
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New post 23 Jul 2008, 11:09
jallenmorris wrote:
I'd like to know about the percentiles. It appears that the scores required to get a certain percentile have gone up. What used to be a 720 is now a 710, etc. Will GMAC re-evaluate the past scores once these cancelled scores are taken out of the pool?


I posted this query but got no response to it . BTW you have your GMAT coming up in 2 days.. Best of luck....
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New post 23 Jul 2008, 11:17
I asked -

"Will be GMAC posting which materials they deem inappropriate, whether it be a website, or prep service so that potential test takers can study from approved sources?"

But received no response to the question. Disappointing given the lack of information actually given by the lady.

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New post 23 Jul 2008, 11:18
jallenmorris wrote:
I'd like to know about the percentiles. It appears that the scores required to get a certain percentile have gone up. What used to be a 720 is now a 710, etc. Will GMAC re-evaluate the past scores once these cancelled scores are taken out of the pool?


My guess is that the percentiles won't change as a result of this investigation because GMAC is only going after people that actually made posts about the JJs (either posting questions or posting that they recognized them). My guess is that of the 6000 people that payed for VIP access (that GMAC has record of), a small portion actually made posts that meet the requirements for investigation from GMAC (this is just my guess). If this is accurate, then there probably aren't too many scores that will really be canceled, and probably not enough scores will be canceled to really impact the percentiles. But that's just my opinion.
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New post 23 Jul 2008, 11:19
sam77sam7 wrote:
I asked -

"Will be GMAC posting which materials they deem inappropriate, whether it be a website, or prep service so that potential test takers can study from approved sources?"

But received no response to the question. Disappointing given the lack of information actually given by the lady.

~Sam


Ya that is disappointing. That would have actually been useful information.
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Re: Another Cheating Scandal &nbs [#permalink] 23 Jul 2008, 11:19

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