Are top tier American MBA programs worth all the cost and effort?

Question

Hello everyone,

Got a question which I am hoping people with more insights can share their opinions with me.

I am looking at applying for MBA this summer for next fall's entrance. I got a 740 on my GMAT, had a A- average from undergrad with two degrees. I am working for a fortune 500 company as their leadership development program's employee. Naturally, I am looking at the top-20 schools (MIT, CMU, Darden, Columbia and maybe Notre Dame for their network). However, huge issue here - I am Canadian, not American.

Let's face it, an MBA can contribute to a person growth in many different ways, the most important aspect of it is still (to most people) elevating his or her career opportunity. In this case, it means getting the ticket to work for a good company in the states. The job market in the south of the border is pure gold compared to what Canada can offer. Better pay, lower taxes, more advancement opportunities and all that jazzy stuff. So doing an MBA in the US will be the stepping stone to entering the American job market. However, according to my research, the applicable work visa for foreigners (aliens?) is the H-1B, and each year there are only roughly 65,000 issued to ALL applicants. And each year there are about 725,000 people finishing grad schools in the states who do not possess the American passport. Needless to say, the chance is slim.

In the worse case scenario, someone like myself was fortunate enough to be recognize by, say MIT and decides to pursues his MBA with Sloan. After two years, the person realizes, oops no company wants to sponsor my work visa application, and without a student visa or work visa, I would have to return to wherever the heck I am from. Then the case would be.....130k of tuition paid, plus 50k of living expenses, mostly raised from debts. Then throw in 2 years of not working = no income, and all the miscellaneous expenses the person would have to pay, which will be approximately be 250k~300k. So now the person would have to go back to Canada, most likely crying but that's not part of this discussion, and spend a bit of time to get a job because all the net-working he/she has done was in the US. Finally, a job offer comes! - - - - 75k a year, CAD not USD.

Now the question is, using myself as an example, would it still be the optimal choice to apply to and attend an American MBA program without any form of guarantee and ever-tightening control over work visas? Or would I be better off to stay here, apply to one of the top three Canadian schools, get an offer with a great scholarship, be (hopefully) one of the top students in class while making great local connections/ network, and still end up with a similar job as I would have otherwise gotten through the American route?

I understand that the scenarios I provided were not entirely accurate, but after doing some research, they seem entirely likely to me now. What would you recommend? Anyone having similar background and made it or regret it now? Any opinion shared will be greatly appreciate!

p.s. Defaulting on all of my student loans and stuff is not an option in the first world, unfortunately. Or it wouldn't be a hard choice for me at all.

jz4analytics · Answer

Top 20 business schools in the south - UVA, Duke, Emory - are cheaper and have a lower cost of living. And UVA and Duke are top 10 (or near it) in the rankings, with the recruiting opportunities that come along with that. So if you want to save some $50k, you can consider those schools.

The ROI is definitely there if you get into a top 20 program and land a consulting, management, or finance job in the US. So I guess your question is more, "Will I get a US visa?" I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure visas have different quotas by countries. Indian and Chinese students probably have a harder time staying than Canadian students do. You should look into visas for Canadian students, specifically. They may also change based on degree, so an MBA or JD or MD degree might get priority over an international student with a less-premium degree.

Also consider whether the MBA is "worth it" to you beyond ROI... would you want to have the experience even  if  it doesn't pay off?

stevkang8 · Answer

Hello jz4analytics,

Thanks for sharing. And yes, you're absolutely correct - my main concern is whether I will get a work visa there or not.

For myself, I would say getting an MBA HAS TO make financial sense, or else I might as well go for some designations while still working and getting paid instead of foregoing two years of salary and time. Getting an MBA would be a sweet experience, but if that puts me in debt for the next 15 years....I will probably choose a Canadian one, with more scholarships (less competition) and better local network. (assuming chances are I WILL work in Canada afterward)

I will definitely look into that visa thing, didn't know there were different quotas based on country and program. Thanks for the advice!!

stevkang8

dtse86 · Answer

stevkang8

The ROI calculation and risk of not obtaining visa sponsorship will vary greatly depending on the type of career you're looking for post-MBA and the company you'd like to work for.

For instance, if you're goal is to go into marketing for a non-profit organization or start-up immediately post-MBA, I highly doubt that you will find one that will be willing to pay you a high enough salary or sponsor you for a visa to make it worth the hassle. But if you're looking to go into management consulting, I think you'll find that it'll be easier for you to "justify" the costs of an American MBA.

You'll have to do the analysis and research yourself, but there's a lot of information here on this forum regarding salaries (like this one from QiuYidio  Consulting Salaries ), or you can look up salaries on Glassdoor.

As for Canadians looking to go to professional school in the US and stay, I know someone at Columbia Law that's Canadian and she's graduating in a year. She seemed to be very confident that she could find a FTE position in the US where her employer would sponsor her. I think many of the larger companies that are already MNC's are very used to dealing with the working visa process in the US and have the resources to help you through the process. IMO, I don't think you have too much to worry about especially if you graduate from a top school.

You may also want to consider working in another country besides the US, post-MBA. If you graduate from a top business school, you may have the opportunity to work in Europe, Africa, or an ASEAN country. Just something to consider...

jz4analytics · Answer

No problem. There are a lot more Chinese and Indian students who want to stay in the US than there are spots for them. Some of my Chinese co-workers have complained about that. I think this is why, say, Indian applicants have a lower acceptance rate at US bschools (the schools know that they couldn't all get jobs if half the class were Indian). That said, pockets are deep at the big consulting firms, so they'll probably be willing to sponsor you if you got into a top 10 or 15 program.

dtse86 · Answer

Interesting related article:  https://poetsandquants.com/2015/06/21/h-1b-visa-cap-making-it-more-difficult-for-international-mbas-to-land-u-s-jobs/

jamesphw · Answer

Depending what job you are going for (and possibly on your undergrad degree), both Canadians and Mexicans are eligible for visas under NAFTA, where the same h-1b cap doesn't apply. However, that doesn't change the fact that some firms simply don't hire international students (Canadians included), so you have to know what the situation is for the firms/jobs you are going for.

jz4analytics · Answer

There's something wrong when successful start-ups in America are being recruited by Canada because they can't stay here. This is what American immigration should be about - coming here for education, creating businesses, and staying to live the dream. I'd much rather see a value-based visa system than a lottery. I wonder, though, if bschools should bear some "responsibility" in estimating how may international students they can take from countries X, Y, and Z so that most can reasonably expect a work visa. As for the OP, it looks like you're in better luck as there are more options for Canadians: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/ ... hoose.html (The TN covers management consultants).

stevkang8 · Answer

Hey thanks for sharing this jz4analytics! I guess I would have better luck with a TN application - can aim to become a management consultant (although originally I was hoping to land a job with Amazon and work on things related to logistical optimization)...or brush up on my stats skills and work as a statistician. I wonder if it is possible to go for a TN visa first, and then apply for a H1-B for more flexibility in the future - although eventually I can see myself moving back to Canada and work here, but that will just have to wait for a decade or two first. Either way, I think I will still apply to MIT, CMU, Darden and potentially Columbia since it is in NYC -> more job opportunities close by and more networking events (maybe? or am I being stupid delusional?) Thanks for all of the sharing and advice here

! Really appreciate you and everyone else chiming in and helping!

Are top tier American MBA programs worth all the cost and effort?

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