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Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by

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Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Jun 2018, 07:56
Guys, I think it is more simple.

It says: "the AVERAGE AMOUNT of OVERTIME per month for the manufacturing division is 14 hrs."

Let's say the manufacturing division has 100 people.
For 99 of them the AMOUNT of OVERTIME is 0.
For 1 of them the AMOUNT of OVERTIME is 14 hrs.

The AVERAGE AMOUNT of OVERTIME for the division will be 14 hrs.

So it simply is D.
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Re: Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Aug 2018, 11:52
betterscore wrote:
Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by an employee in the manufacturing division of the Haglut Corporation is 14 hours. Most employees of the Haglut Corporation work in the manufacturing division. Furthermore, the average amount of overtime per month worked by any employee in the company generally does not fluctuate much from month to month. Therefore, each month, most employees of the Haglut Corporation almost certainly work at least some overtime.

The debater's argument is most vulnerable to criticism on which of these grounds?

(A) It takes for granted that the manufacturing division is a typical division of the corporation with regard to the average amount of overtime its employees work each month.

(B) It takes for granted that if a certain average of amount of overtime is worked each month by each employee of the Haglut Corporation, then approximately the same amount of overtime must be worked each month by each employee of the manufacturing division.

(C) It confuses a claim from which the argument's conclusion about the Haglut Corporation would necessarily follow with a claim that would follow from the argument's conclusion only with a high degree of probability.

(D) It overlooks the possibility that even if, on average, a certain amount of overtime is worked by the members of some group, many members of that group may work no overtime at all.

(E) It overlooks the possibility that even if most employees of the corporation work some overtime each month, anyone corporate employee may, in some months, work no overtime.




Here is my explanation for D



Suppose the average overtime in Techahaed is 14 hours.
Does that mean everyone/most people works overtime ?
No ..
But Why?

Few people might work more than 14 hours say even 23 hours ..
and this will reduce the average work hour of the remaining few..

say for 10 people * 14=140 hours work
if 4 people work 24 hours each then it is 96 hours,this will leave
6 people with 44 hours work..44/6=7-8 hours work..No overtime for majorty
that is 6 poeple


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Re: Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Aug 2018, 11:53
betterscore wrote:
Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by an employee in the manufacturing division of the Haglut Corporation is 14 hours. Most employees of the Haglut Corporation work in the manufacturing division. Furthermore, the average amount of overtime per month worked by any employee in the company generally does not fluctuate much from month to month. Therefore, each month, most employees of the Haglut Corporation almost certainly work at least some overtime.

The debater's argument is most vulnerable to criticism on which of these grounds?

(A) It takes for granted that the manufacturing division is a typical division of the corporation with regard to the average amount of overtime its employees work each month.

(B) It takes for granted that if a certain average of amount of overtime is worked each month by each employee of the Haglut Corporation, then approximately the same amount of overtime must be worked each month by each employee of the manufacturing division.

(C) It confuses a claim from which the argument's conclusion about the Haglut Corporation would necessarily follow with a claim that would follow from the argument's conclusion only with a high degree of probability.

(D) It overlooks the possibility that even if, on average, a certain amount of overtime is worked by the members of some group, many members of that group may work no overtime at all.

(E) It overlooks the possibility that even if most employees of the corporation work some overtime each month, anyone corporate employee may, in some months, work no overtime.




Here is my explanation for D



Suppose the average overtime in Techahaed is 14 hours.
Does that mean everyone/most people works overtime ?
No ..
But Why?

Few people might work more than 14 hours say even 23 hours ..
and this will reduce the average work hour of the remaining few..

say for 10 people * 14=140 hours work
if 4 people work 24 hours each then it is 96 hours,this will leave
6 people with 44 hours work..44/6=7-8 hours work..No overtime for majorty
that is 6 poeple


Press Kudos if it helps!!
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Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Nov 2018, 21:21
GMATNinja VeritasKarishma AjiteshArun egmat

Does this line play anyb role in the question. I am not getting it. Please help.

Quote:
Furthermore, the average amount of overtime per month worked by any employee in the company generally does not fluctuate much from month to month.

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Re: Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Nov 2018, 18:56
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warrior1991 wrote:
GMATNinja VeritasKarishma AjiteshArun egmat

Does this line play anyb role in the question. I am not getting it. Please help.

Quote:
Furthermore, the average amount of overtime per month worked by any employee in the company generally does not fluctuate much from month to month.
You can safely ignore it.

It helps slightly to reinforce the each month part of the conclusion (Therefore, each month, most employees of the Haglut Corporation almost certainly work at least some overtime). The correct option however, doesn't need this statement. It attacks something more fundamental: if many employees work no overtime, it becomes much harder for us to say that most employees almost certainly work some overtime each month. But if the individual figures are just relatively stable (that is, they don't fluctuate), we don't know whether most are non-zero or not.
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Re: Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Nov 2018, 19:57
AjiteshArun wrote:
warrior1991 wrote:
GMATNinja VeritasKarishma AjiteshArun egmat

Does this line play anyb role in the question. I am not getting it. Please help.

Quote:
Furthermore, the average amount of overtime per month worked by any employee in the company generally does not fluctuate much from month to month.
You can safely ignore it.

It helps slightly to reinforce the each month part of the conclusion (Therefore, each month, most employees of the Haglut Corporation almost certainly work at least some overtime). The correct option however, doesn't need this statement. It attacks something more fundamental: if many employees work no overtime, it becomes much harder for us to say that most employees almost certainly work some overtime each month. But if the individual figures are just relatively stable (that is, they don't fluctuate), we don't know whether most are non-zero or not.



Thank you for your help!!
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Re: Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jan 2019, 05:44
Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by an employee in the manufacturing division of the Haglut Corporation is 14 hours. Most employees of the Haglut Corporation work in the manufacturing division. Furthermore, the average amount of overtime per month worked by any employee in the company generally does not fluctuate much from month to month. Therefore, each month, most employees of the Haglut Corporation almost certainly work at least some overtime.


Conclusion -- most employess almost work on overtime
Premise --
1.) most employee work on manufacturing unit
2.) avg of overtime is always from month to month

Basically, we have to weaken this argument..

2 ways to tackle this question

Approach 1 - mean, median and avg method used in quants
It is given in passage that the avg of overtime in manufacturing is 14 hrs, so i want to say that if employess working under manufac divison lets say that
Avg = 14hrs = (sum of working hrs of employees)/(total no. of employees); lets say total no. of employees are 5 and if 4 people are not working overtime like 8hrs per month and so 5th person must work something like 32 hrs to balance the avg of overtime; this means that most employees not working avg overtime which weakens the argument

Approach 2 -- no time to think that much then do it by POE

The debater's argument is most vulnerable to criticism on which of these grounds?

so lets do it by poe and keep our logic (approach 1) on mind while solving

(A) It takes for granted that the manufacturing division is a typical division of the corporation with regard to the average amount of overtime its employees work each month. -- it just the outside information -- typical divison and regard -- so eliminated

(B) It takes for granted that if a certain average of amount of overtime is worked each month by each employee of the Haglut Corporation, then approximately the same amount of overtime must be worked each month by each employee of the manufacturing division. --- same outside information -- it means that author has taken the fact for granted that most employees must work same overtime -- remember the month avg of overtime is constant -- but it doesnt mean that all employees are working same overtime -- as we dicussed in approach 1 that the avg overtime may fluctuate on employees -- so eliminated

(C) It confuses a claim from which the argument's conclusion about the Haglut Corporation would necessarily follow with a claim that would follow from the argument's conclusion only with a high degree of probability. -- honestly i eliminated this option because "high degree of probability" -- so out of scope -- so eliminated

(D) It overlooks the possibility that even if, on average, a certain amount of overtime is worked by the members of some group, many members of that group may work no overtime at all. -- hold on for approach 2 -- but for approach 1 Bingo -- we got it

(E) It overlooks the possibility that even if most employees of the corporation work some overtime each month, anyone corporate employee may, in some months, work no overtime. -- for approach 2 it is very close to answer -- but it can be eliminated due to if one employee doesnt work overtime then it implies that most employees working some overtime


TBH this was tough question
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Re: Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Aug 2019, 01:23
Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by an employee in the manufacturing division of the Haglut Corporation is 14 hours. Most employees of the Haglut Corporation work in the manufacturing division. Furthermore, the average amount of overtime per month worked by any employee in the company generally does not fluctuate much from month to month. Therefore, each month, most employees of the Haglut Corporation almost certainly work at least some overtime.

The debater's argument is most vulnerable to criticism on which of these grounds?

Pre-thinking
The author reasoning per this argument is that most employees work a little of overtime at least.

How does she draw this conclusion?

#1 Because most employees work in the manufacturing division and their average (monthly) overtime is 14 hours.

#2 Plus there is no relevant fluctuation in the overtime worked by any employee during the month.

Anyhow the author reasoning is about averages. So let's consider this case:
Total employees: 100
Employees in manufacturing division: 80 (most)
Total overtime worked by employees in manufacturing division: 14*80 (no need to do the computation)
Now let's consider the case in which 40 employees work 28 hours of overtime a month. This means that the remaining employees work exactly ZERO hour of overtime a month. Now fewer than half employees are working overtime.

Clearly the author reasoning is faulty because it is impossible to draw her conclusion with the given data. Although it is a possible scenario there are many different ones like the one presented above.


(A) It takes for granted that the manufacturing division is a typical division of the corporation with regard to the average amount of overtime its employees work each month.
What does typical mean here? this choice has no bearing on the conclusion at all. Hence incorrect

(B) It takes for granted that if a certain average of amount of overtime is worked each month by each employee of the Haglut Corporation, then approximately the same amount of overtime must be worked each month by each employee of the manufacturing division.
This is not the point. This statement addresses a completely different situation. Hence incorrect

(C) It confuses a claim from which the argument's conclusion about the Haglut Corporation would necessarily follow with a claim that would follow from the argument's conclusion only with a high degree of probability.
Probability is out of the scope here. The scenario presented is not more probable than others. Hence incorrect

(D) It overlooks the possibility that even if, on average, a certain amount of overtime is worked by the members of some group, many members of that group may work no overtime at all.
In line with pre thinking and with the scenario presented above. Hence correct

(E) It overlooks the possibility that even if most employees of the corporation work some overtime each month, anyone corporate employee may, in some months, work no overtime.
The point is that given the data there could be scenarios in which most employees do not work overtime at all. So this option addresses the wrong concept. Plus one employee working overtime would not affect the conclusion. Hence incorrect
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Re: Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Sep 2019, 23:42
betterscore wrote:
Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by an employee in the manufacturing division of the Haglut Corporation is 14 hours. Most employees of the Haglut Corporation work in the manufacturing division. Furthermore, the average amount of overtime per month worked by any employee in the company generally does not fluctuate much from month to month. Therefore, each month, most employees of the Haglut Corporation almost certainly work at least some overtime.

The debater's argument is most vulnerable to criticism on which of these grounds?

(A) It takes for granted that the manufacturing division is a typical division of the corporation with regard to the average amount of overtime its employees work each month.

(B) It takes for granted that if a certain average of amount of overtime is worked each month by each employee of the Haglut Corporation, then approximately the same amount of overtime must be worked each month by each employee of the manufacturing division.

(C) It confuses a claim from which the argument's conclusion about the Haglut Corporation would necessarily follow with a claim that would follow from the argument's conclusion only with a high degree of probability.

(D) It overlooks the possibility that even if, on average, a certain amount of overtime is worked by the members of some group, many members of that group may work no overtime at all.

(E) It overlooks the possibility that even if most employees of the corporation work some overtime each month, anyone corporate employee may, in some months, work no overtime.


Let's say the company has 100 people, and manufacturing division has 52 people with average of 14 hours.

Now the argument says that the average of 100 people doesn't fluctuate much. and then concludes that atleast 51 people work overtime.

This is flawed. Maybe the 52 people had a very high standard deviation 10 person worked 52*14/(10) hours each.. and remaining zero. also the zero in other divisions of the company. In this case only 10 people worked overtime.

Therefore, the flaw is average doesn't mean that everyone is clocking that number.

Option D fits the bill perfectly
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Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 16 Oct 2019, 19:30
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AjiteshArun wrote:
arhumsid wrote:
Btw, i still have little clue about what choice C meant :(


It confuses a claim from which the argument's conclusion about the Haglut Corporation would necessarily follow with a claim that would follow from the argument's conclusion only with a high degree of probability.

It confuses a
claim ------100%------> argument's conclusion
with a
claim <------high probability------ argument's conclusion

To put it another way, the third option is trying to say that the argument is vulnerable to the criticism that it (the argument) fails to differentiate between
a claim that would definitely lead to the argument's conclusion
and
a claim that the argument's conclusion would lead to (with a high degree of probability).


Dear AjiteshArun,

I have one follow-up question on this very very confusing answer choice:

Is my understanding correct?

a claim from which the argument's conclusion about the Haglut Corporation would necessarily follow
= the claim is a premise on which the conclusion depends

a claim that would follow from the argument's conclusion only with a high degree of probability
= the claim is an inference from the conclusion

Thank you for your great explanation as always :)

Originally posted by varotkorn on 16 Oct 2019, 07:26.
Last edited by varotkorn on 16 Oct 2019, 19:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Oct 2019, 08:10
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varotkorn wrote:
Dear AjiteshArun,

I have one follow-up question on this very very confusing answer choice:

Is my understanding correct?

a claim from which the argument's conclusion about the Haglut Corporation would necessarily follow
= the claim is a premise on which the conclusion depends

a claim that would follow from the argument's conclusion only with a high degree of probability
= the claim is an inference from the conclusion

If not, please correct my understanding please Sir :)

Thank you for your great explanation as always :)
Hi varotkorn,

You're on the right track. One quick change we could make here is to the depends. "Necessarily follow" is closer to sufficient than it is to necessary. For example:

Bad news day → Twitter meltdown

Let's say that a BND always leads to a TM. That is, a TM necessarily follows a BND. This, in itself, does not mean that a BND is necessary for a TM to happen. A TM could happen in the complete absence of a BND as well.
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Re: Debater: The average amount of overtime per month worked by   [#permalink] 16 Oct 2019, 08:10

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